Why shouldn't I rotary-epilate or tweeze the treated hairs?

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

I’ve begun getting Flash Lamp treatments with The Radiancy SpaTouch. Full legs, lip & chin & Brazilian bikini (the last one being a luxury item for me). I understand pretty well the way hair grows. I believe I understand the phases of the growth too. So, this is my question.

Why shouldn’t I rotary-epilate or tweeze the treated hairs?

Before the obvious answers, let me also say this, I understand that not every hair will be fully treated and that if I pull it out before the next treatment it may be dormant (or missing obviously) and not get treated at all. The effect being that for that particular hair the potential treatment opportunity is nullified for that particular treatment. It is my understanding that when a hair is pulled from it’s follicle that it begins regrowing with the next anagen cycle. In effect sort of “resetting” the cycle in that hair in the sense that a month after pulling all the hairs I can be pretty sure that what is actually currently growing then is mostly in the anogen stage. (please do correct me if I’m mistaken here.) And, I’m in no rush. It matters little to me if I get 5-10 treatments over the course of 1-2 years or 1-5 years. What DOES matter is this in-between stage. Allowing the hair to grow and shaving it is murder on my skin. [color:“blue”](see the explanation below)[/color] Every little irritation hyper pigments it and leaves me with spots everywhere… and then there’s the stinging burning pain of it all.

What I really need to know is this. Does the pulling out of an effectively treated hair before it falls out on it’s own- (meaning, that if I wait the prescribed 2-3 weeks it WILL actually fall out on it’s own)- If I pull that hair will it prevent the process that damages the hairs ability to regrow as a terminal hair from happening, or is it recommended that you not pull the hairs in order to simply identify the untreated ones at the next treatment? I do not wish to negate the whole effect of the treatment but if pulling it will not interfere with that process, I’d like to. There will be a phase of shaving necessary before each treatment but I’ve found that I can sort of cut-out the telogen stage where the slow moving dormant hair is so irritating to my skin, if I pull it out. In 6-8 weeks after epilating, just about every hair currently growing above the skin surface should be in the anagen stage given the average length of a full growth cycle on the legs. Am I wrong about this? I can’t find any information about the actual process of the “alteration” in laser/flash lamps treatments. Does anyone know any more about it?

[color:“blue”]I have a very common “skin condition” called Keratosis Pilaris. (see here if you want to know what it is- http://www.keratosis-pilaris.com/wht_kp.htm ) (and here if you’d like to see a photo. You’ve probably seen it many times and may not known what it’s called- http://www.eskin.com.tw/DB/Upload_Sick/L20030315114017.jpg ) Up to 50% of the worlds population has KP but I’m one of the lucky ones who has it well into my 30s AND who has it all over my upper thighs and bottom (as well as my upper arms and back). It makes hair removal a nightmare and my skin is a mess from the rashes and razor burn… About 10 years ago when I began having hormonal issues related to insulin resistance my hair growth became much thicker. Hairs that had been vellus throughout my life suddenly became terminal hairs. I’d been able to skip shaving the backs of my thighs but I’d begun looking like Sasquatch and couldn’t wear shorts without embarrassment if I didn’t remove the hair. The problem was that the shaving, epilation, depilatories, friction and waxing all left me with rashy looking legs and on the backs of my thighs where they pressed against the chair surface I was sitting on, they hurt… all the time. My skin and body-hair regimen was taking an hour a day out of my life (and with 3 young sons that’s time I can’t afford) I can’t skip a day shaving or the rash worsens and takes several days to heal.

I use TendSkin for some relief and it does help but it costs a fortune for the area I need to cover (I sometimes use a homemade version as well). I also use a prescription alpha hydroxy/urea cream daily. And I exfoliate every day. At least in the areas where the KP is present. [/color]

#2

Laurie, I was kind of wondering the same thing. About epilating out the treated hairs, maybe taking a little longer between laser sessions, but getting more smoothness in between sessions because the dying hairs would be out of the way for good. Some of your points I never really considered, like resetting the cyle and such. But, what I considered was the damage done to the hair during treatment. The hair is brittle, and if epilated would/ could just break off if it’s still too anchored by the surrounding. So you’d just be left with a deeper remnant anyway, possibly leading to an ingrown with the residual growth left. So I’ve just left them alone. Does this make sense to you? I’m saying this in terms of someone who had a mixed (diode/ RF) treatment, the diode sometimes will fracture the hair in the treatment process, the RF takes a while to do it’s work.

Mantaray

#3

Mantaray,
Since I had the treatment 1 1 /2 weeks ago, I’ve tested certain areas with tweezers. In many cases, the hairs slip right out. There were a few, however, that got pulled out live unexpectedly when I got a rhythm going and they were good solid hairs, not fragile-seeming at all. Also since my skin is very pale and my hair quite dark, I can see a broken or cut hair right through the skin even when it’s below the surface. (another drawback to simply shaving rolling my eyes) I haven’t seen anything like that so far. The way I understand it is that even when dormant the hair can be moving slowly out of the follicle as the new anagen hair pushes through. It’s amazing how irritating that cut edge can be to my skin, even when using an electric shaver.

Certain ares cleared very quickly. The thinner skinned area above and around my ankles and the tops of my feet were easy. Also, (I forgot to mention this area in the first post), my lower belly. Those hairs just slid easily out. My chin cleared quickly too but not my upper lip and my chin has new hairs growing in already though I do know they are not the same hairs that were treated by the lamp.

It would be ideal to simply use my epilator and be done with it, but also I’d be happy to just know that I can tug a few strays (or more than a few) out with the tweezers without disrupting the current “growth-disabling” process. sigh I have friends who only shave once or twice a week! They think I’m nuts when I say I have to do something with mine every day. Thanks for adding to my post Mantaray. It’s good to know I’m not the only one wondering about it. -Laurie

#4

Doesn’t anybody have this answer? Can anyone point me in the right direction? I’ve already tried the laser centers. They don’t seem to know why.

#5

The SpaTouch seems to be a very ineffective and overadvertised “laser” targeted and hard-sold specifically to electrologist offices. I believe the pitch is “do this on larger areas and then you will have less to work with with electrolysis”,so I would stay away from it. Read too many bad stories about it. And haven’t heard one person who it actually worked on. Read this:

http://www.consumerbeware.com/forum/disp…;PagePosition=1

"Hey All,

New member here. I just stumbled across this board after a recent stretch with a poor electrologist prompted me to do the research I should have done prior to beginning at all. Buyer Beware.

I have moderately hairy shoulders and back, and began electrology treatements to remove the hair about a year ago. I live on on the south shore of Boston, Massachusetts.

I found the name of a local electrologist (in yellow pages) and visited for a free consultation. The consultation lasted a few minutes, and the electrologist said she could begin treatement today for 45 minutes (59 dollars for 45 minutes, one hour costs $70.) as she had an opening. She handed me a metal handpiece, with a squirt of handcream on it for conductivity, and began treating my shoulders. There are two registered electrologists at this practice (owner and employee). I became a client of the employee.

It seemed as though all was progressing well over the first few months. I stuck to a 2 hour a week treatement schedule, and figured this would take 2-3 years to see some really good progress; I was determined and motivated. This was mid-August of 2003.

I wish I had the answer to the following, but I don’t. Listen to this…

It seemed as though the progress was very, very slow, and I was noticing quite a bit of regrowth on a regular basis. When I asked the electrologist about this, she said “Oh, I can just go over that really fast, no problem.” I believed all this, as I think my hope of no hair on my back and shoulders clouded my judgement, plus the electrologist was a nice woman. To me, it just seemed like she was really slow. But I ignored my better judgement and plugged along.

Now we were starting to get into mid-March 2004 (had spent about $3,000 at this point) and the progress had never moved off of my shoulders. Believe me, my hair is not that dense. At this point I began to voice my frustration with her lack of progress. I asked her if I was responding the way a successful client normally would. She said this is normal progress with electrolysis, and that I was responding just fine, and to relax and take it easy. Also, she added that I should possibly consider laser, although, she added, laser was more expensive and not permanent (she worked part-time at this clinic, and part-time at a laser center in Boston). At this point I decided stop treatements completly and regroup. I didn’t call to schedule anymore appointments, and no one called me.

About 4 weeks passed and I noticed that although there was some reduction in the amount of hair, I’d say about 70% returned. I felt like I just totally wasted $3000.00 for nothing.

This saga goes on as I tried the owner for a week, and I ended up with a hyperpigmentation scar on my left shoulder( the owner has 19 years of experience). When I confronted her about this, she said “I’m a very aggressive electrologist, and I gonna get that hair out np matter what.” Finally, she recommended her new device, Spa Touch, and gave me a few free treatements to make up for my frustration with her and the other person. After about 6 weeks I was right back to where I started. About 30% reduction, hyperpigmentation marks (still visible today, faded very little) and $3300.00 poorer. There is much more to this, but I don’t want to bore you anymore.

After my mind healed over the summer, I recently, interviewed 3 electrologists, and discovered that skill and competency are of utmost importance, more than anything.

I deceided on a new electrologist, and I have been happy with the results so far, had 2 one hour sessions. She uses blend, as oppossed to galvanic method. She asked me what method other person used, and I was embaressed not to know, she was able to find out when she asked me if I held anything in my hand, and was surprised the other person was using galvanic method on a large area like back and shoulders- too slow. The area the new electrologist has cleared in 2 hours is huge compared to the area my first had cleared in same time. Just simply looks better too. To boot, only $51.00 per hour now as oppossed to $70.00. My hope has returned, but I am jaded, suspicious and guarded.

I had to vent somewhere, and I thank you all for your attention and for listening. I think I will stick with this practitioner and electrolysis for the fall, and possibly consider laser in the winter, as I have noticed many of you say laser is much better for large areas. I’m just concerned about the long-term health impact of laser."

"Update…

I have been visiting my new electroloist for about 2 months now. I have had 14 hours of treatement at $52.00 an hour, costing me a little over $700.

I must say I am pleased with the results so far. My electrologist has cleared about 5 inches of skin on my back from the base of my neck down to my mid-shoulders- it’s amazing how much “cleaner” my upper back looks compared to the rest. The speed at which she works is amazing compared to the other electrologist I was seeing.

At this point I am considering seeing her through the fall and winter for continuing electrolysis treatement and then trying laser in late winter (March-ish). I would dothe laser with her too, but she uses the spa-touch, and I have discovered from this forum, thank god, that spa-touch is no more than a very expensive razor. Why do so many electrologist’s offices offer this spa-touch? Is is cheap to buy or rent? I guess most electrologists are small businesses, and needed to do something to compete with laser.

I really like my new electrologist, but don’t want to throw away $ 400, 4 or 5 times to do my back with spa-touch with no permanent results. She told me combining spa-touch with electrolysis is a very good approach, as spa-touch treatements do “weaken” the hair, and in combination with electrolysis can be effective. I know she has bills to pay, and spa-touch may have good salespeople, but I don’t want to waste $ anymore.

What should I do?

I think I will continue electrolysis with her through winter, and try and find a “real” laser clinic to do the laser. I have olive skin (I’m Lebanese and Italian) Does anybody have a recommendation for a reputable laser clinic on the south-shore area of Boston? How much can I expect to pay for laser? If nobody has a specific place, can you at lleast tell me what to look for (laser type, questions to ask, etc.)"

"Just a quick update…

I have been seeing my new electrolgist now since late August and all is going well. Her progress is impressive - she has cleared an area about 1/4 of the way down my back. She continues to try and “soft sell” me on the Spa Touch, and I keep telling her no because I am looking for permanent results. I go for 2 houir sessions once a week, and her rational is to do Spa Touch combined with electrolysis for faster results. I am patient, however the 2 hour sessions can be cumbersome. I can see why laser in the new hair removal method of choice as electrolysis is a long, long process.

Will Spa Touch in conjunction with electrolysis be a waste of $$? I will still likely end my regular electrolysis sessions in late January and go to a laser clinic for a “final clearance,” knowing it will take multiple laser sessions.

Does my strategy sound on- target? Electrolysis for now and then laser for the final clearance? Please let me know what you think. Thanks."

"Spa Touch advertises heavily to electrologists. It’s a very affordable device. I too may have been easily persuaded, if not for this site. Maybe should give her address to this site "

#6

la girl,
I very much appreciate the information on the SpaTouch. I’ve been gleaning a bit of the same through my research online. I’ve been getting the treatments through a “MedSpa”. What I really need is an answer to my question about the pulling of the treated hairs. I have had a noticeable amount of shedding and regardless of the efficacy of the device used, whether laser or flashlamp, it’d still be extremely valuable to me to learn about the reason for not pulling the remaining hairs.

Thanks again!
-Laurie

#7

I read somewhere that plucking the hairs can alter their growth cycles, which can make treatment more difficult. If you pluck the hair, you cannot treat it with laser or electrolysis, because the laser cannot reach the follicle and the electrologist cannot see it. Lasers target melanin and if you pluck the hair there is no melanin to target into the follicle.

If you are sure a particular hair is “dead” you could probaby pluck it. But you don’t know for sure until you pull on it. If you pull and there is resistance, stop immediately and you may be oK. Plucking is hard on the skin and if the hair was not dead, it could grow back as an ingrown.

RJC2001

#8

I was wondering the same as you why laser should prevent us from plucking or waxing say 2 or 3 weeks after treatment…

Haven’t found a decent answer either!

Has the LHR had any effect on your KP? According to the link you put up, I get the impression that KP could be reduced with electrolysis. Heard anything about that?

Thanks

RX

#9

At the risk of sounding repetitive, I just feel a tremendous urge to blurt this out: Plucking followed by sun exposure, even weeks later, will lead to hyperpigmentation spots. You people really don’t want these spots trust me. Repeated plucking from the same bulge will lead to even a more pronounced spot. The best way to follow laser is to scrub/exfoliate in the shower with the most coarse bristle brush you can tolerate two to four weeks after a treatment, before shaving the area. I’ve had great success in doing this. In my experience, plucking only leads to some sort of damage, whether it’s immediate, or will become apparent sometime in the future. But that’s just my take. Good luck with your regimens.

RJC-
I got some good clearing on this last blast. Now that I scrub out the dead ones, I see more timely and clear results. I’m really happy and it’s a really great thing to see actual progress in becoming smoother. My next treatment is around July 18th. I wanted to experiment this time around by going in with a slight bit of stubble in a designated area. I want to see if just having a tad of stubble will allow the laser to feed more joules into the hair root. I know you go in freshly shaven, I do too, but I’m thinking this might help in some areas where hairs are buried in a bit more pigment.

Mantaray

Don’t pick at ingrowns

#10

At the risk of sounding repetitive, I just feel a tremendous urge to blurt this out: Plucking followed by sun exposure, even weeks later, will lead to hyperpigmentation spots. You people really don’t want these spots trust me. Repeated plucking from the same bulge will lead to even a more pronounced spot. The best way to follow laser is to scrub/exfoliate in the shower with the most coarse bristle brush you can tolerate two to four weeks after a treatment, before shaving the area. I’ve had great success in doing this. In my experience, plucking only leads to some sort of damage, whether it’s immediate, or will become apparent sometime in the future. But that’s just my take. Good luck with your regimens.

RJC-
I got some good clearing on this last blast. Now that I scrub out the dead ones, I see more timely and clear results. I’m really happy and it’s a really great thing to see actual progress in becoming smoother. My next treatment is around July 18th. I wanted to experiment this time around by going in with a slight bit of stubble in a designated area. I want to see if just having a tad of stubble will allow the laser to feed more joules into the hair root. I know you go in freshly shaven, I do too, but I’m thinking this might help in some areas where hairs are buried in a bit more pigment.

Mantaray

Don’t pick at ingrowns

Thanks for the update. If the hair is 1mm above the skin surface that should be OK. There is an advantage to doing that so they can see where the remaining hair is.

With the Aurora, Ayneron recommends not shaving before the 4th treatment so the practitioner can assess regrowth patterns.

I am in the midst of a major campaign to get my practitioner to acquire a Comet! Wish me luck!

I let my practitioner get the ingrowns. If they’re easy ones I lift them with a sterilized lance and leave them until my next electrolysis (or laser) appointment. If they are really nasty (rare for me now) I use Tend Skin so they come closer to the surface.

With the Nd:YAG lasers I have had hairs that feel fully attached, then all of a sudden two weeks after a treatment, they will fall out by themselves when shaving.

RJC2001

#11

Thanks so much for the info – I still don’t quite understand why I shouldn’t wax between sessions, especially if I am patient, and allow time after the laser, and after the wax for the following laser… anyone have an explanation?

Another perplexing issue is that of hair length prior to LHR. I did a session last year of LHR and was asked to shave just prior to the session. Now that I am starting a series of IPL sessions, I am being asked to shave a minimum of 48 hours before the session. I suspect that it’s to help the person doing the IPL see where the hairs are, but I really wonder what is the most effective… any thoughts anyone?

Thanks

RX.

#12

I ALWAYS require that the area be hair-free. This way, the energy isn’t being wasted travelling down the follicle. What is the point of seeing the hair anyway, if the entire area is to be treated? As for waxing and tweezing, the reason I give my clients is that by doing anything to remove the hair from the root, you are messing with the growth cycle. The hairs that get their roots ripped out will take, on average, 120 days to grow back to the stage where laser, IPL, etc will affect them. So, if you do this to a hair that was actively growing, and would have been receptive to the next treatment, you have just added 3 months to how long it will take to disable that hair. Got it? It sucks, but just stick it out. In the long run, it is better.

#13

You know, I’ve been really considering this idea of epilating after a laser treatment, and it’s starting to make some sense.

Here it is almost three weeks after my last Comet treatment and I find myself plucking out dead hairs. Many of these hairs felt alive two weeks ago. That is, when I went to go pluck them, they had that ‘live hair’ pain. Now they can’t even be felt when plucking. So I’m thinking, these hairs were zapped and killed right after the last laser session, and here I am shaving them daily for three weeks just to usher in their death and shedding. Why not just get rid of them immediatly, avoid the embedded root speck, and have less to shave?

One thing I find is that there are multiple facets to a hair dying: 1) There’s the actual bulb death that’s done by the laser, 2) There’s the dermal sensory nerve endings that are still working even after the hair is dead. This makes the hair hurt when you pluck it and gives the impression it’s still alive although the hair may be already dead, and then, 3) There’s the point where the hair shaft stops growing. This is kind of like when they say dead people’s hair continues to grow long after they’re dead. The hair does this on it’s own independently, even though the supporting follical/bulb is long dead. So why deal with all these phases?

If two day’s growth is about an eighth or sixteenth of an inch,I’m thinking that if I wait two days after a laser treatment, then epilate with my Braun, all hairs zapped in the latest treatment will have surfaced. Newer hairs that weren’t zapped won’t have surfaced yet. So they aren’t infringed on for the next laser session. I’m thinking any hairs zapped and still not dead, are in the growth phase, these will no longer be target hairs in the next six week session because they will be dormant. So it doesn’t matter. They’re going to have to wait to be killed on their next cycle anyway so it doesn’t matter if they’re plucked, they’ll have time to regenerate.

It’s tempting to consider epilating, but then I think: Just have patience and let the hairs fall out. A little patience will allow me to get to my goal quicker because it lets the hairs cycle naturally through their phases and allows a shaft to be present for laser targeting as soon as the hair becomes active again, and nothing can be quicker than that. plus, I think of all the follical damage those epilators cause and I really don’t want anymore of that. …So, I guess I’ll stop my cycle thinking. I think I need to go outside and get some fresh air.

Mantaray