Where have all the "flowers" gone?

My most awesomely excellentist friend, Patsy Kirby, had me write an article for the EW. EW is the “Electrology World” periodical for AEA members (1,000 member?). I wrote about Youtube and HAIRTELL … encouraging people to come to this site and re-invigorate the thing. Also, to get people to make videos showing what they do in their practice. I’m going to do it … “Don’t tell me … SHOW ME” … and you can do it too!

‘Cause … this site is getting static; dare I say "boring?’

I mostly read the comments, but don’t post much, because I’m even sick of reading my own comments! I REALLY hope a few more electrologists get going here and add their knowledge and contribute to Hairtell. It’s time for FRESH BLOOD!

Come on gang … get with the program! (I don’t understand why we don’t have hundreds of zapperettes joining in?)

Where have they gone? This is just a guess, but I would hazard a guess it’s a combination of feeling they lack anything worth contributing, and, more importantly, self preservation, but we HAVE had new electrologists come here and contribute over the last several years. I would include myself in this list, Emancipated Elect and Adrien. There are assuredly others I’m not thinking of. None of them can bring the experince and knowledge lost recently

So what do these 3 ( myself included) have in common? Well for one, each of us come from a place where there is no Licensing of electrologists for one .

Have a look at the top 5 posters for this site. Only two still post here, Andrea, and Dee. Well Andrea is the site’s owner , and not an electrologist. Dee is still a moderator here, but due to other personal committments posts less frequently than she once did. So what happened to the other 3?

I’m not sure what happened to LA girl, the boards primary Laser professional, but the board has become very electrology-centric. She may have ( goddess forbid) deceased, retired, or something may have happened to cause her to limit her exposure here.

Both James and Josepha though, dont really appear to be posting here on anything approaching a regular basis.Why might that be? I’ll leave that question open for the moment.I’m certain you know the answer.

So why does someone post in response to a consumer question or concern? Is anyone paid to do so? NOPE! Do they gain more exposure which might bring them more clientele for their business? Possibly, but this is not assured.

So…What DO they get out of it? They get to demonstrate their skill and knowledge. They get that warm and fuzzy feeling from truly helping out. That demonstration of skill and knowledge has both a reward, and a risk associated with it. The reward is obvious, increased visibility means someone seeking electrolysis is more likely to come accross them and subsequently purchase electrology services from them, thus increasing revenues. When you are providing a service in a personal service setting, more business is a good thing, and therefore a posative influence on your income. So what is the risk?

The reality is, that we provide a forum here on hairtell that is OPEN. Anyone can post a question here. Anyone can answer said question.Anyone can also post a comment that is derogatory however.That derogatory comment, will be remembered, even if it has no validity, and even if it is taken down to limit it’s exposure as has been the case recently.

So…I hate to say this, it actually pains me to do so, but any electrologist who has been practicing for more than 5 minutes will tell you, that client feedback, most especially in a public and open setting, is not necessarily a good thing. As much business that exposure can bring you, it also has the capability for you to have loss of reputation when things go wrong, and when you are dealing with people who are already paranoid of skin damage, and emotional over a very personal to them issue , the likelihood of having a client who lashes out at said electrologist, or misconstrues something said or done, increases exponentially. I hate to call them “bad clients” because they arent “bad” because they have feelings or emotions over hair removal or skin quality.Just one client getting upset however, can have a devastating effect on your business. When electrology is your sole source of income, it can destroy your livelihood.

I regularly converse with at least 2 electrologists in my province, those being, Rea at follikill and more locally, Time4you, who occasionally posts here. BOTH these professionals make real strives to educate, and to as you state, show their work. However you wont see Rea post here, and time4you posts rarely and not usually in answer of consumer questions. Why? Because, the risk-reward computation, doesnt make sense. The risk that you will have a client , who is going to say something negative about your business, increases exponentially.

I know I have personally had to “fire” two clients in the last 3 years. I wont treat them, at all. One was actually my highest paying client, EVER! We’ve all had them. So called…“bad clients” . Well they arent bad just because their emotions get the better of them, but they can completely DESTROY your business in an open forum, with little to no recourse. I’ve seen it happen twice now in the last 2 years, with electrologists who were amoung the top in their field and contributed more to this site than anyone else! Think about that, of the 3 electrologists that are top posters here, 2 of those 3 have had this happen. That’s a 66.6 % probability , that posting here and contributing can have a detrimental effect on your business, not matter how long or how many times you have made posative contributiions, what is remembered? The one incident that didnt go as posatively as hoped. You can have THOUSANDS of positive referrals from happy customers, but ONE UNHAPPY PERSON negates all of that. And, the reality is, we ALL have unhappy clients to some degree or from time to time it is the nature of hair removal.

Being unlicensed, and not charging for my “services” for the most part, I’m personally somewhat insulated from this. Destroy my reputation! Go for it! Perhaps that’s why I make an effort to contribute here, there is no risk-reward computation, because I’ve eliminated the risk factor.

The unfortunate part in all this, is the knowledge, and contribution, is watering down. We have had far more knowledge bleed away from hairtell because of this effect than we have had knowledge and experience come to the site.

I’ve taken a LOT of flack for continuing to support electrologists who have had to leave, because their reputations have been thrashed , by ONE UNHAPPY CLIENT. We ALL have unhappy clients. Every single electrologist on this board, has had, at one time or another, someone unhappy with their work, their premises, with how fast the removal is happening, with the overall costs, or a dozen other reasons. The probability that one of those persons will post something inflamatory or derogatory increases exponentially with how much you share of your knowledge and experience in a forum that allows public feedback.

I used to comment a lot on Rea’s blog. I just visited her site, and went to leave a comment on her latest article. I couldnt. It seems she has now disabled comments on her articles. I dont know why, but I can definitely guess.

The risk reward computation is, that if you contribute regularly, and share of your experince and knowledge, there is a 66.6 % probability, you business will suffer as a result. That’s why knowledgable professionals arent contributing anymore.

I’m going to confess, there is a LOT I’d like to say about this issue. I have to admit, I am genuinely angry about it. It isnt fair. It’s contrary to the sharing of knowledge, something I have supported and strived for since day one here. Of the 3-4 top professionals that helped me by contributing to my learning significantly, TWO of them are no longer posting here. I fear, that it is only a matter of time, before others in that list suffer the same fate. In each of those two cases, I have knowledge of details directly related to me that I CANNOT pass on that directly negate the very public assertations that were made about them. It’s sad, it’s aggrivating and it is completely un-necessary that such has occurred .

My fear is, honestly, your plea to attract experienced professional through this article, to come show their work and contribute, will fall on deaf ears.The risk reward comparison, makes it so.

There are at least 2 electrology organizations, that are places where such knowledge is shared and work is shown with other electrologists. Neither of these accept public viewing or allow the general public ( non-electrologists) to post or view content. When I started taking up the practice a few years ago, I gave Dee a REALLY hard time over the fact that this was the case. I still dont qualify now to be a member in either one. I was told, I didnt understand why this was the case. I DO understand now. I also still dont qualify for membership in either because of my “non-professional” status. There are a number of other electrologists , whom, because of where they are, or whether they are licensed, simlarly dont qualify to take part. At the time a few years ago, I thought this made electrology something of a "“closed society” that was not forthcoming with sharing information. I’ve come to realize, it’s a method of mitigating that risk-reward issue. I still dont like it. I think techniques and expertise should be shared. It’s upsetting that it’s not, but I do understand somewhat more why this is the case. They arent doing it so that they can protect or keep information proprietary, they are doing it so they can prevent scenarios like the ones that have played themselves out here, from happening to them

To the two electrologists who have had this happen, who’s businesses and livelihoods were tarnished unfairly and without justification, please come back. The best way to show that these unfortunate situations that lead to this is just a blip in the radar, is to overwhelm the static with posative contributions. Between the two in question, there is over 70 years of combined experience , a tremendous loss to the profession in terms of knowledge. Your contributions are those of the best in the world in your profession. I beg of you both, dont let the vocal minority silence a shining star. Overwhelm the sky with light instead. Show what you have always shown, that you are the best of the best. There is good reason these people are the best in the world at what they do, it’s because they put the effort into it and shared their knowledge and experince.

Seana

Back in the days when the overwhelming majority of questions asked on this site were answered by myself, instead of pitching in, people put their energy into “who is this guy, and who made him the final authority on answering electrolysis questions?” The answer to that question is, he is the guy who stepped up to answer the questions when no one else would. There was a time when certain people who I won’t name, whose sole reason for registration and posting on this board was to argue with what I had posted and to say that I did not know what I was talking about. I even held off on answering some questions to see who would reply, and as predicted, no one did. I then sent private messages to the “James is an uneducated idiot squad” pointing out to each of them that there were unanswered questions on the board that each of them should post “the correct answer” to. Their personal replies back to me can be bottom lined up as, "Why you asking me to answer that question?’ and “What makes you think I have the time to be bothered?”. Of course, once I answered the questions, it was same old situation, and they all piled on to say that I had not explained it well enough, or some bit of orthodoxy had been violated.

Crabs in a barrel!

People accuse those who give of themselves here of doing it out of a predatory interest in gaining business, money, and or (undeserved) professional credibility instead of the true motivation, giving back to our species and the industry. At some point, one just decides to prove just how insignificant this or any other forum is to the advertising success of ones business by abandoning it and proving that one still marches on quietly without it.

Now the problem this leaves is that the jackasses, once having successfully driven away the generous support of the good intentioned are loath to step in and weather the storm of piloting the ship they have iceberged.

To some evil and vile people, things like this are just a game, and all gamesmanship is done in sport, and at the end of the day, they sip a beverage and smile a grinchy smile and bask in the glow of their machinations. Meanwhile, some innocent is looking for help and none is to be found because all the Good Samaritans have been served up for sport. Some of these demons even think their gamesmanship to be powerful enough to cajole the former contributors into biting the line again for yet another go around on the wheel of thankless torture.

For many years I personally stood as a lightning rod taking all manner of abuse just for being a person willing to lend a hand, say the thing that many were thinking, but not brave enough to say, or asking the questions no one wanted to answer, and in some instances finding answers no one wanted to find. Well, a lot of thanks that job gets. I have even been called a creep for offering to bring a newbie in on a training session with other professionals, just because I requested that information regarding the particulars be shared with no one, so that I did not get a flood of phone calls wanting in on the closed session. The phone started ringing 45 minutes later, and the mud slinging was on. Note to James, stop offering newbies special treatment.

Now, I want to take the time here to give a special, “No, I don’t mean you” to all the wonderful people who have given me thanks over the years. From the kind words, to the closet full of Number 7 Jerseys that people sent for my birthdays and as “Thank You For Saving Me Money” presents. Of course, I also thank those special people who have actually done business with me for what ever amount of time that may have been. Having done that, it remains to be said that most people who have benefited from this site, or my participation in this or countless other sites never gave so much as a thank you, let alone any tangible support to the endeavor that stood out like a beacon of hope to them in their time of need. It is a human trait that it has taken me a lifetime to accept as the predominant norm.

Well, a change has come. I spent a lifetime trying to be the change I wanted to see, and now, older, wiser, and some would say more bitter, I plan ahead for the world around me. If you want to see what that looks like, an image comes to mind. At the conclusion of Breaking Bad, Walter White has the choice of solitude and ten million dollars in an off grid cabin in the mountains, life in jail or one last shot at trying to fix some things for the people he cares about and reclaiming the other 80 million dollars he has left behind. He chooses the path that leads him to die with 90 million unspent dollars.

What choice will those former and future contributors to this site make? Only time will tell.

From a consumer’s perspective I’d love to see more activity on this site. About 2 years ago I checked it daily. Now once a week is enough. For those willing to contribute, three cheers and a tiger to you.

Hey everyone. I too have noticed that this forum is not as active as it was since 2014 and before. Sometimes websites peak and then stagnate a bit but I hope this is not the case for hairtell.

Unfortunately it may have something to do with negative situations in real life concerning some of our members(I’m not aware of all of them though). We had such a great thing going. Quite a few amazing professionals and several members sharing their ‘diaries’ which gave hope to new members, and so more people joined and the activity continued.

I haven’t been active much either but like others I have had amazing results from treatments so body hair is nowhere near as much on my mind anymore. This website provided amazing info and opportunities and it’s been life changing. I’m willing to continue contributing by for example sharing my results and answering questions etc.

More electrologists read this site than are willing to admit it. But as others have said, few are willing to participate fearing potential business consequences from public exposure?
I even learned a little lesson of my own. For Hairtell learned consumers trying to find electrologists, do not sound too informed to your electrologists or mention Hairtell because they get intimidated and some will try to avoid you. I had that happen to me with one electrologist who is not a member here and never participated here but did get recommended on Hairtell. I attempted to setup appointments with her several times since this summer and I mentioned that she was recommended on Hairtell (as a praise.) My last and final attempt to setup appointments with her was 3 weeks ago as she told me she’ll get back to me. And of course I won’t try again fearing she might think I’m some stalking creep.

So fun to read all the comments; they’re HUUUUUUGGGEE!

I love the spirit … but, I’m mostly impressed with the clients. They post their photos and share information: so WONDERFUL! Oh, how I appreciate all I have learned from them.

I’m also eternally grateful for Hairtell for “bringing me” my Dee Dee (who made me a Republican!) and, of course, Josefa.

I will always be grateful to James for directly introducing me to Josefa. She means everything to me … I can’t say more; my heart if full.

Another point of view on this…I simply do not have the time to come on here that often. I’m BOOKED weeks ahead and I work 6 days a week. I answer so many of my own client questions, I run out of steam to figure out what’s going on for folks on here.

However I will say, that when I first started out doing electrolysis, I took this career very seriously and I spent a lot of time on here, reading posts from other professional like Michael and James. It helped me dig for more answers, and break through myths, such as only anagen hairs can be treated. I don’t consider myself anywhere near the league those two men are in, but I try in my own city to do the best I can, and to help educate people properly.

I honestly haven’t been worried about a damaged reputation, because too focused on helping as many people as I can, especially those in my own province and in the association I’m a member of. We need more electrologists!!

Another reason there are fewer questions is because most of the frequently asked questions have answers available using the search function. Many visitors find the answer without needing to ask.

Another thing is that there are a lot more options for finding information these days. This forum was created to counter a scam forum, and most of the scammers have been put out of business. The scam forum doesn’t even exist any more.

The Wild West of the internet has passed, so we are now better equipped as consumers and professionals to ensure that everyone is getting the most accurate information.

I have been looking into mobile-friendly forum software, but it’s tough to transfer such a huge database!. UBB keeps promising one, but it has not materialized yet.

Thankful for all of our 23,000+ members who have made a total of about 118,000 posts!

There are a lot of plausible reasons already mentioned, but would also argue that theirs just this big information flood increasing day by day.

Maybe the forum was more active because there weren’t many alternatives to find decent information about hair removal. Even for myself have needed months to realize the power of hairtell.

Also the media has changed, when nowadays Facebook or YouTube has become for many people their information source number one.

No offense, but as seeing the internet trends past years, this forum will likely stay this way. Mostly people with really serious hair problems will still join, but it doesn’t suit the vast majority. They want short and precise information as fast as possible, without effort.

Those who can do research well enough never needed this site. The predecessor, www.HairFacts.com should be enough for them. This site was the place for the rest of the world to go to and ask a question and get a reply from someone who could give a reply directly to the question asked.

Without volunteers to give that feedback on a daily basis, this site doesn’t work as designed.

I’ve been wondering about hair removal for 15+ years. I tried laser 10 years ago but I had no idea about the efficacy. It didn’t help me much, but I’ve learned in here about equipment etc that at least I wasn’t ripped off.

But it wasn’t until I discovered this place earlier this year that I learned about the efficacy stats of different methods, or that electrolysis even existed. I might, or probably will, end up getting electrolysis, and I am very thankful for the info provided in the years of posts that are available here.

I have learned so much and despite being extremely self conscious about hair for so long, and having the internet available for finding things out, I still was not able to learn what I’ve learned until I found Hairtell. So for the regulars here, please don’t feel discouraged. I haven’t posted much but I have read and learned a LOT.