What can I do

Little background on me…I’m a 23 year old white male with rather pale skin. My problem areas are my neck below my adams apple, shoulders, delts, upper arms, chest, and abs. I’ve had over 25 treatments with the Palomar EsteLux, Gentlelase, and Lyra Lightsheer. I have seen -230% reduction. I have 400% more hair on my upper arms and shoulders as a result from laser and IPL treatments. The only place I have any reduction at all is on my stomach…which is about 7%. I have been to an endocrinology, I have no insulin problems. She said everything checked out normal. I am 5-10 180 lbs with 8.5% body fat. My resting heart beat is 48. My blood pressure is 117/55.

You may wonder…why do I go back? 25 treatments! Well, I go back because it is the best way I can create a hair free period. After every treatment (if it is done properly) I will get a hair free period of about 6-7 weeks. The hair will shed and I will have horrible irratation for about 2-3 weeks, after that I am hair free for six weeks, then I get hairy again. Then I go back for laser/IPL. I’ve recently been just doing IPL treatment because it is cheaper, and I didn’t see any different results with the 18 treatments of laser.

My question is what can I do here? I’m desperate. Is it possible that there is a laser out there that will give me long term reduction? WHAT CAN I DO!?!?!?

What settings are used on you on all those machines? What were the differences you saw in treatments with the different machines that you did use?

more hair on upper arm area for men is usually an issue when low settings are used on somewhat sparse and fine hair growth. Lyra is difficult to get good results with unless it’s a very experienced tech because it has a very small spot size. I would think for all those areas, it would take hours. How experienced were your techs? If I were you, I would stick with GentleLASE (settings of 15mm and 30 joules) or LightSheer (at least 35-40 joules) as those lasers work best based on others’ experiences.

Please provide a bit more detail if you can. When you say your hair sheds, do you mean it comes out of the skin and falls out (i.e. you can pull it out without resistance) or does it just not grow back in after the treatment after the area was shaved?

can you post your results from the C peptitude tests the endocrinologist ran?

On the Palomar EsteLux had 5 settings, and I have been treated on the “5” setting when I go. Weird thing is, I used to get treated by a different tech & clinic with the EsteLux and had great results (as in no missed spots and greater temporary reduction) but she has since got a different leaser. The new lady I go to, it feels like she does all areas, but does skip spots on occasion, but neither here nor there I have large patches of hair that did not shed on my shoulders. I mean 3 inch by 3 inch patches. I’m not sure what the deal is there…

With the Lyra Lightsheer, I only got one treatment and saw no shedding. I do not recall the settings, but I called the tech and she said I wouldn’t “notice” it. I explained to her that I’ve experienced shedding before with other lasers and none of my hair has shed. She told me to wait a few days more. Needless to say I never went back to her.

With the Gentlelase, I started off with treatments of about 22 joules, then we went all the way up to 30 with still no results. Now I am treated on about 20-24 joules because I see no reduction.

When I say my hair sheds, what I mean is it literally comes out of the skin. A week or two after treatment it starts falling out, I can pull it out and it just pops out. I guess I don’t understand your question? It sheds, and then it doesn’t come back for about six weeks…like a sort of laser waxing. That’s all I get.

are you Franky from another forum? Do you have the endocrinologist test results on you? I would suggest electrolysis as another viable option, but without making sure for 100% that there is no underlying issue, I wouldn’t want to. Since you can end up spending more money on that for another year and not see results either due to that. Is your conclusion that this is hereditary?

Also, it sounds like the current IPL tech and the Lyra tech aren’t knowledgeable or experienced. Where are you located? How qualified is the GentleLASE person? How many GentleLASE treatments did you have? Did they treat sparse fine hairs on your arms with GentleLASE?

No I don’t have the C-Peptide tests on me. I know they tested liver enzymes as well, a bunch of other stuff, testosterone. I was told everything was normal.

Personally I don’t think I could afford electrolysis because I don’t make alot of money and I have such a large spot. My dad is hairy, but not as hairy as me. I’m located in Kansas City. I drive 5 hours to affordable clinics usually located in Iowa. Everything around Kansas City is rediculously high, and I cannot afford it. When you get into rural communities the prices come down DRAMATICALLY, for the same exact treatments. My Gentlelase tech is a MD, he went to training from Candela and everything. Is certified. I’ve had around 15-17 Gentlelase treatments. Where I have more growth on my shoulders and upper arms, I had a few hairs that were dark and my tech went ahead and zapped them. Each time I saw more hair grow back in those regions. I have -400% reduction in that area. It’s thicker tahn any hair on my body.

ugh, that’s very unfortunate that they touched your arms at all if there were only some dark sparse hairs. MD doesn’t really mean anything. getting training in how to turn the laser on and off really doesn’t provide any insight on how to best kill hair. just the fact that he performed 15-17 treatments without questioning doing so many and how results can actually be achieved makes me question his intentions. seems like he cares more about the money you’re paying each time rather than getting you results. given all of these 3 techs, i would seriously consider trying someone else who is actually experienced in hair removal even if it takes a while to find them. someone who either used to or does electrolysis too would be a great option, although i know hard to find. what methods have you used to try to find clinics near you? can you list the names of clinics that you have gotten quotes from? I can try to find a known specialist in your area if I can.

I’m not sure how expensive you think electrolysis is, but generally it’s about $60-70/hr on average. You can start on the areas that bother you most and go once or twice a week for an hour to start. After a month or 2, after achieving first clearance on those areas, you’d probably only need 30 min appts once every 2-3 weeks at most to get the hairs as they come in. It wouldn’t be much more expensive than laser and gradually much cheaper.

lagirl, Would like your thoughts about something: there seems to be posts like this one popping up on this hair forum and other hair forums more often than I care to admit, about laser-induced hair growth on the upper arms of men especially. I’ve read the article that “kitty” directed us to about this happening in “rare” cases, but it seems to be getting less and less rare these days. Are you tuned into whether the laser/IPL manufacturers and researchers are aware of this type of problem? I’m wondering if they are warning techs and physicians not to go near this area to treat a few dark hairs for fear of stimulating a lot of new hair?

I had this happen to one woman client in her thirties who is a nurse with no medical imbalances. In her case, an IPL was used for her chin and about 3 months later, long black hairs popped up all over her neck??? Go figure?

Luckily, the hairs were scattered, but there were many, and I cleared the area easily with microflash thermolysis and she’s okay now. What do you think is going on?


it’s hard to judge how often this happens based on posts on the forums just because people in this situation are those who seek out forums to find solutions. this is the same person who posted on the other forum for example. there are 3 on that one forum, one on another, and another 2 on here. so about 5-6 total in the year and a half that I have been following. i definitely think it’s an issue, but still not sure how widespread. i am pretty sure though that they don’t mention this in training (for example, Candela doesn’t as my doctor hasn’t heard of this, and it makes sense since it would devalue their product). there is something to be said about those who perform the laser training having invested interest in not mentioning or even taking the initiative to discover and research effects that can be potentially harmful to their business. it’s unfortunate. i have noticed several posts claiming that their techs did warn them that this can happen and that they stay away from treating areas with sparse fine hairs on certain areas especially. but so far, those are few.

my personal opinion is that treating these fine sparse hairs “wakes up” the follicle, causing the body to fight the disruption and making the hair stronger (maybe even due to more blood flow stimulation). basically, caused by the hair not having enough pigment to attract enough laser energy to actually kill it.

I looked up some practitioners for you. i think you may want to call around and see who seems like they know what they’re talking about. explain your situation to the actual person who would be treating and see how they respond. There are a few places that do electrolysis too, like the one below under the Candela list. They do both. Someone like that may be able to better assess you to figure out the best way to go. it should be helpful for someone knowledgeable to assess you in person, instead of over the internet.

here are some practitioners with LightSheer diode lasers:

Monarch Plastic Surgery
5401 College Blvd, Ste 203
Leawood, KS 66211
(913) 663-3838

Ronald Huffman MD
Skin Deep Laser Medspa
4809 W. 117th Street
Leawood, KS 66211
(913) 327-8700

Dan L. Bennett
Cosmetic Plastic Surgery Centre
4601 W. 109th Street
Suite 340
Overland Park, KS 66211
(913) 4919777

Ronald J. Barnhart and Larry H. Batty
Shawnee Mission OB-GYN Associates, P.A.
9119 West 74th Street
Suite 268
Shawnee Mission, KS 66204
(913) 831-2334

Women’s Health Associates, P
9119 W 74Th St Ste #300
(Formerly) Women’S Group
Shawnee Mission, KS 66204
(913) 676-2164

Jayhawk Primary Care, Inc.
7000 Squibb Rd Ste #350
Mission, KS 66202
(913) 261-4804

Richard A. Ruiz, MD & Herbet M. McCowen, MD
Physician Laser Services, LLC dba Advanced Laser Clinics
12330 Metcalf Ave.
Suite 590
Overland Park, KS 66213
(913) 451-3113

Med Cosmetic
10600 Quivera Street
Overland Park, KS 66215
(913) 887-7546

Christina Herrington
Medical Administrative Services of KU
5799 Broadmoor, Ste. 200
Mission, KS 64119
(913) 588-9800

Dermatology Center Of Kansas
930 Iowa St
Lawrence, KS 66044
(785) 842-7001

here are some practitioners with Candela lasers in Kansas and Missouri:

Advanced Dermatology Manhattan, Ks
785 537 4990

Comcare Salina KS
785 825 8221

C & S medical Clinic PA Dodge City, KS
620 408 9700

Individually Yours Wichita KS
316 683 7350

Kansas Medical Clinic - Laser Topeka, KS
785 273 6460

Jain Dave DO PC Kennett MO
573 888 4226

Permoud Greg MD FEstus MO
636 937 1515

The Dermatology Center
Rolla MO
573 364 0122

The Cutting Edge
Washington MO
636 390 4644

542 Jane St.
Sullivan, MO 63080

Bodi-ography St Charles MO
636 498-2634 888 637 4677 ext 206

Cully Bryant-Ferguson Medical Group
Sikeston MO
573 471 4375

And with Cutera Lasers:

Indulgent Medispa & Family Practice
1004 Carondelet Dr Suite 430
Kansas City, MO 64114
(816) 941-8100

LASER-DERM Skin Care Center
7420 Quivira Road
Suite 102
Shawnee, KS 66216
(913) 962-1869

206B SE Second Street
Lees Summit , MO 64064
(816) 525-8500

22358 W. 66th Street
Shawnee, KS 66226
(913) 422-1400

Skin Sanctuary Medical Aesthetics
1900 NW Copper Oaks Circle
Bldg. 1
Blue Springs, MO 64015
(816) 224-5444

Dermacare Laser and Skin Care Clinic
1902 E. Battlefield Rd., Suite A
Springfield, MO 65804
(417) 447-7777

Lagirl, you are simply amazing. What a list! How fast do you type!!! Chuck, you came to the right place for answers. Lagirl is one of the big reasons hairtell just passed the 12,000 member mark. Clap. Clap.

Thanks for your thoughts on the laser-induced hair growth question. Sounds good.


Wow, I don’t know what to say. Thank you for the list, I’ll definitely inquire to those places about my problem.

just the fact that he performed 15-17 treatments without questioning doing so many and how results can actually be achieved makes me question his intentions. seems like he cares more about the money you’re paying each time rather than getting you results.

Actually, he questions why I keep coming back. After the first 5-7 treatments it was obvious I wasn’t getting any reduction at all and he knocked the price down a bit because I told him I wanted to keep coming.

I really don’t think any laser is going to make a difference long term. Whenever I call new places they try to convince me that I’ll see long-term reduction, but I know better. Maybe I can find a good deal at one of these places and get lucky enough to see long-term reduction. Everybody talks up the GentleLASE.

pretty fast <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but some of those were copy and pasted i’ll admit haha.

you’re welcome chuck. like i said, i’d start with those with either LightSheer or GentleLASE AND electrolysis experience. It’s important to figure out what’s going wrong. Someone more knowledgeable and experienced (than those you’ve seen) who can see you and speak to you in person might be able to assess the whole situation better.

What kind of results does this doctor see in others he treats? Does he say? What is his specialty? Does he have any thoughts on why you’re not getting results? Does he care or interested in finding out?

Hello Chuck.
After so many treatments, haven’t you even seen a reduction in the coarsness of the hairs? Or maybe you didn’t have coarse hairs to begin with.
Also, do you get ingrowns due to treatments, when the new set of hairs are growing in?

Wow. I thought I had a lot at 11 or so treatments!

I’m same age and physical description as you. I too had poor results. I think hair removal doesn’t work well on young men. I think athletic exercising may also contribute by dramaitically increasing blood flow maybe.?

Do you take creatine or anything? Prednisone ever?

I still have a lot of patchy bald spots. Hope they fill in. It’s been five months since my last treatment. How long did it take for all yours to grow back?

What kind of results does this doctor see in others he treats? Does he say? What is his specialty? Does he have any thoughts on why you’re not getting results? Does he care or interested in finding out?

He is perplexed because everybody else has great results. Before he treated me he said after 8 treatments, I should have very little regrowth and that he’d treat me for virtually for free after that. And he has continued his promise. I get treatments for about 100-150 now. He’s a family doctor. He told me to go to an endocrinologist and another hair specialist with a different laser. I went to the endocrinologist.

After so many treatments, haven’t you even seen a reduction in the coarsness of the hairs? Or maybe you didn’t have coarse hairs to begin with.
Also, do you get ingrowns due to treatments, when the new set of hairs are growing in?

No, I’ve not seen any reduction of the coarseness of hair except on my stomach. And even at that, only a 10% reduction at the MAX. All of my hair I have is coarse, dark and black now. As for ingrowns, I don’t get ingrowns after treatment because it didn’t really do nething. I would get ingrowns when the hair grows back, which I get a few, but nothing major. After treatment my irratation, which I think you mean by ingrowns, can be minor to severe. At 30 joules on the GentleLASE I get massive irratation that lasts for about 3 weeks. With the IPL, the irratation only lasts a week. Which is another reason I have opted to start using the Palomar again, but my tech sucks this time so I am going to quit.

Do you take creatine or anything? Prednisone ever?

Yes, I do take creatine. Creatine is nothing hormonal. I have seen no studies anywhere that has a correlation between creatine, exercise and hair growth, but I could be wrong. It seems like all the guys at my gym are actually less hairy than those in real life because they work out. Alot of fat, lazy people develop hairy backs and arms because of insulin resistance.

it’s interesting. for fun, i looked up creatine and there are tons of articles, links, and personal experiences from people stating they’ve actually experienced hair loss on their head from creatine. at the same time, there are many sites that keep stating that no studies proved that it causes hair loss. it’s interesting considering how many sites and postings there are from various people reporting the same thing. here’s an example:


You are not just healthy, but athletic, so your body will heal better. You are on creatine which basically works by flooding the muscle with water; does that provide more nutrients to cells? I dunno. I know my creatine has a lot of amino acids in it and was taking whey protein with a lot of that stuff in it too. They are anabolics which can promote HGH secretion as well.