Does anyone know? Please post here or private message me.
ARRETE DU 6 JANVIER 1962 fixant la liste des actes médicaux ne pouvant être pratiqués que par des médecins ou pouvant être pratiqués également par des auxiliaires médicaux ou par des directeurs de laboratoires d’analyses médicales non médecins
…
4° Tout acte de physiothérapie aboutissant à la destruction si limitée soit-elle des téguments, et notamment la cryothérapie, [color:#FF0000]l’électrolyse, l’électrocoagulation et la diathermo-coagulation.[/color]
[color:#CC0000]5° Tout mode d’épilation, sauf les épilations à la pince ou à la cire.[/color]
[color:#CC0000]6° Toute abrasion instrumentale des téguments à l’aide d’un matériel susceptible de provoquer l’effusion de sang (rabotage, meulage, fraisage).[/color]
…
et aussi
Avis de la commission de la sécurité des consommateurs en date du 13 juin 2001 relatif à l’utilisation des lasers (ou autres sources de puissance) dans le domaine de l’esthétique
NOR : ECOC0100324V
L’arrêté du 6 janvier 1962 précise dans son article 2.5 : « Ne peuvent être pratiqués que par les docteurs en médecine, conformément à l’article L. 372-1 du code de la santé publique, les actes médicaux suivants : …[color:#CC0000]. tous modes d’épilation sauf les épilations à la cire ou à la pince. »[/color]
L’arrêté du 30 janvier 1974 relatif à la réglementation concernant les lasers à usage médical précise dans son article 2 : « Les lasers à usage médical sont des appareils devant être utilisés par un médecin ou sous sa responsabilité. »
Le code de la santé publique définit dans son article L. 665-3 la définition d’un « dispositif médical » :
Frustrating. France is a large country.
This more or less prevents hair from being removed. Anyway, nothing to be touched on the European level - it might become cumbersome for all our businesses.
BTW: i wonder if there are any workarounds. As far as i remember, Romy Haag achieved her electrolysis in Paris, and that must have been past 1962.
Thank you for the quick reply. The request came from a physician who is preparing a lecture on electrolysis.
Ah! how interesting!
A physician who cares for Electrolysis? I hope that this conference will serve to do justice to the Electrology and not to make false comparisons with other systems for permanent hair removal.
I also hope that the case of French law, not be a precedent for other countries wishing to follow the same [size:17pt]SAD[/size] example.
In a framework of legality, the only solution for consumers is to pay an astronomical amount to be totally free of hair with physicians.
The other option is to run the risk of being treated by a poorly trained professionals because they can not access any type of education in France.
The third possibility is to work under the supervision of the physician in which case the restriction of the French law is completely useless and not conducive to free competition.
Romy Haag achieved her electrolysis in Paris… her life was a little more pink? Oh sure!
What an insult on freedom and competition. The hairy get screwed in France. Aren’t physicians busy enough in France? How can they possibly remove hair? Is this technically government interference? Not sure I’m understanding this very well. Thanks Josefa. Not sure about what your last sentence means.
Sorry Dee, I have a bad habit of putting music to my thoughts.
Romy Haag is one of those brave women who fought to correct the mistakes of nature by herself. She was born in a man’s body during a time when people were much more intransigent than the present time.
“La Vie en Rose” is the anthem we all associate with Paris. And that’s where Romy found a little happiness through the Electrolysis. Since then her life was a little pink.
I have found a sad testimony to a French consumer. I copied a part so we can all know the painful reality of life in France, compared to Electrolysis. The entire testimony is too hard to be played, but it is something that all consumers and electrologists the world should read:
[color:#660000]"Pour les trois derniers tirets, vous allez me dire « aucune gravité ». J’en conviens mais l’ennui c’est que ça se passe pendant l’heure de traitement et au temps vous faire remarquer que cette heure est très, très précieuse.
Le temps. Je n’ai jamais rencontré une personne qui comptait autant les minutes voir les secondes. C’est simple, en une séance d’une heure elle va regarder (à deux-trois reprises) son minuteur une dizaine de fois et sa montre environ cinq fois. Mais ce n’est pas tout. Vous payez une heure, elle ne vous fera que 52 minutes sous prétexte qu’elle est « plus rapide que les autres ». Quand vous payez 90 ou 75 euros l’heure, je peux vous dire que ça fait cher le poil. (J’ajouterai même ; le poil qui repousse).
J’ai fait le calcul toutes les quatre fois, au rythme où j’allais la voir, je lui offrais une heure de ma poche.
J’ai eu le malheur de lui faire remarquer son « oubli » de temps. Que les heures n’étaient pas des heures. Elle s’est mise à me crier dessus comme un petit enfant. Elle est en défaut mais on n’a pas notre mot à dire. Elle a même rajouté « écoutez S. vous n’êtes pas contente, c’est facile, vous allez ailleurs, nous des clients nous en avons plein ».
Elle ne faisait pas ça qu’avec moi. Avec une nouvelle cliente, nous avions parlé de son comportement, elle aussi a été surprise de son rapport au temps. En gros, dès le début elle fait mauvaise impression. Je ne pense pas que cette cliente ait persisté.
J’ai lu votre conversation au-dessus au sujet des aiguilles. Pour moi, elle se contentait de me dire « l’aiguille a été changée ». Cela sans que je le vois toujours de mes propres yeux.
De plus quand vous l’apercevez bel et bien installer une nouvelle aiguille, l’ennui c’est qu’elles ont besoin de « préparer » ces aiguilles (ça, je l’ai vue faire deux fois) en les coupant afin de les rétrécir. Par sécurité, j’irai tout de même faire un test VIH et hépatite C parce que je n’ai pas confiance.
Une chose est sûre. A un moment elle a souhaité prendre ma mère au milieu de ma séance. L’aiguille est passée de moi à elle, de elle à moi sans être changée. Nous en sommes sûres à 97% toutes les deux. Et comme de bien entendu, le temps défilait pendant nos changements…
Cela d’autant plus que j’ai été me promener sur les sites canadiens. Là-bas, l’heure c’est de 25 à 50 dollars. Ils font même des forfaits pour 300 minutes. Autant dire qu’en France les prix sont exagérés. Ils ne valent ni le résultat, ni le travail accompli (pas besoin d’études, de diplôme et apparemment pas de centres de formations en France alors qu’il y en a au Canada…)."
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Thanks Josefa, but I haven’t bought my learn to speak French Rosetta Stone yet, so I can’t understand this. I glanced over it and there are some parts that I intuitively understand. I will need to translate this beautiful language some way unless there is a person on hairtell that can do it for me.
I used altavista’s babelfish to translate…haven’t translated the last post yet.
Thank you, Josefa for providing this information!
Well Dee, apparently there are people in France “no doctors” who practice Electrology. The medical community is aware of this situation, but they seem to look elsewhere, because they obviously are not interested in monopolizing the Electrology. The lack of schools to train beauticians or anyone in the field of health, is leaving the consumer in a state of helplessness. Just the opposite of what the current laws are intended to achieve with the ban.
I’ll try to summarize the testimony of this woman, or rather I should say “victim”? but first I must make a point: In her testimony, the consumer clearly says that not everyone working in this beauty institute in Paris, has the same unfortunate behavior.
That said, the first point refers to the absence of professional ethics, racist and xenophobic attitudes of the electrologist:
1.- The client says that in her presence heard how the prof tells the receptionist:
[color:#660000]"Nothing to make appointments to blacks, Jews or persons whose name ends with “A” [/color](if I were a potential customer, it would affect me, because my name ends with A of Josefa and my second name Reina, also).
2 .- Suddenly, in full session, she hear say to the prof,[color:#660000] “I better be a swindler, to devote to work in removing hair.” [/color]The victim used a tone of humor when she says that these statements are hardly reassuring when someone holds a needle in her hand, and prepares to insert into your skin.
3.- In an attempt to humor (which I would call black humor), the prof tells her victim how she left a hair that had previously been treated without removal with the intention of causing an pimple, because that client was not of her liking .
4.- During the meeting, the electrologist drink 4 to 5 times. Tune the radio to another channel, under the pretext that the song is unnerving. All this occurs without interrupting the treatment time.
5.- The hour ends at 52 minutes because according to the electrologist, she is faster than the others. When the victim claimed she had paid, she was scolded like a little girl who has made a prank. And this is what the lovely prof told[color:#660000] “if not you like, you can go elsewhere, we have many customers”.
[/color]
I could continue with the testimony but the dose is too much for me today. Since I read this, I have nightmares.
This testimony is purely anecdotal, but it could become a habit if governments are determined to make laws that favor these situations.
This is totally not understandable to me. If all this is true, is this the only electrologist in France? What year are we talking about? Is it 1962? Whether in the far past or pretty recently, it sounds like this particular electrologist needs to be fired, fined and sued, but France is not America. I’m not sure this one story represents how all electrologists in France treat clients, however, I’m not sure there are any electrologists in France. This is anecdotal as you said. Much care has to be taken not to damn all. If these accounts are all true, it needs to be proved beyond a doubt because people can say ANYTHING. I have no idea what the structure of laws or protections are like in France. I do know that some people are mean and some are loving - and that will never change. I do know that people in France have unwanted hair problems and would like the flexibility and freedom to seek out services from a well-trained professional electrologist without all the drama. My instincts are telling me that LASER is the only option. Dr. Henri Bordier would be very disheartened.
The subject interests me because I am unable to make the correlation between this persons testimony (to who? a court of law?)and why there may not be structured training and regulation of electrologists so as to create a climate of competition, which benefits all human beings no matter what service or product is offered.
What am I not understanding here? Are you friends with this person who was treated with such rudeness? What are the current laws in France regarding electrology or is there very little electrolysis happening in France? Can you provide references?
No, I do not know this person personally.
All I can say with confidence is that there is a bill in the French parliament to liberalize the use of IPL for French beauticians.
I hope and wish that the Electrology follow the same path.
Me, too. Thanks, Josefa.
Occasionally i wonder if it might be useful to set up an electrology institute in Saarbrücken, a fairly large German town directly near France.
Hey! If Germany can do this and help out their French neighbors, so many desperate hairy peopel will be served well. That is, if French regulations don’t come up with something new that blocks the privilege to practice electrology from those who obtained a German license. It only takes a few powerful people to make life miserable for many. Why is this so? Well, I fall back on human behavior for that answer - there is always a money trail.
I think the thing to keep in mind when looking at the French situation is that the consumer has been wronged most by this state of affairs. They are left to seek out LASER, because it is easier to come by, or choose to search futilely for a practitioner that is near them and willing and able to treat them and their problem. Lastly, the practitioner choice becomes one of seeking out what few above board practitioners there might be, as opposed to turning to black market workers due to the state sponsored strangulation of the legitimate practice of the craft.
Certain states in the US have crashed and burned in this same fashion already, and one finds a state board seeking to route out pirate practitioners, while simultaneously barring access to new admissions to the licensed practice in that state, even as the number of licensed practitioners dwindles. All the clients care about is being able to find decently skilled work, at a reasonable cost, without traveling hours to some place else, just to get what could be had at home, but the people who could be doing it have either moved, or given up hope of practicing unmolested in that area.
Strangely enough, I recently wrote an article that touches on this subject.
“What am I not understanding here? Are you friends with this person who was treated with such rudeness? What are the current laws in France regarding electrology or is there very little electrolysis happening in France? Can you provide references?”
Sorry for my brief reply Dee, I was very tired last night to respond and translate it several times, and make the fewest mistakes.
I accidentally found the testimony of this woman in a French consumer forum. I know that we can not give much credence to things circulating on the Internet, it can be said with the intention of doing harm to third persons or certain techniques as in this case, the Electrology. However, the things this woman has told are so implausible that can only be true, it is proven that often reality is stranger than fiction.
Moreover, who would be interested in discrediting a technique that does not deserve anyone’s interest in France?
Another reason that makes me believe in the words of this woman is that she has exposed the picture of her leg or arm (not clear the area) and believe me, just a butcher who uses needles cut, can make such bruises.
Another reason that has convinced me, this woman said in an open thread (in 2010)for someone else to find someone who practices Electrolysis in Paris. Other people responded and agreed on two things, the exclusive use of needles is not clear to the customer, while so is the lack of hygiene and safety, such as hairs from previous customers that it remain on the table or dirty hands (no gloves).
Of course I will not give the name of this site, just in case, the real objective of these people is to do harm (though my gut tells me no).
My intention with this, is to provide a valuable argument to dissuade other countries or states of the USA follow the same path that the French regulations.
As James says, these laws encourage the intrusion, and the emergence of practitioners pirates.
(I’d love to read that article, James, this may be?)
Beate, anything that might make things easier for French consumers, should be welcomed. No European law may prohibit its citizens traveling to receive treatment in the neighboring country. If everyone did the same, I assure you that the government would consider changing the laws of their country.
Sorry for the “up”.
Very interesting thread.
As i said in my thread, laws in France are… specials.
Their is one beauty salon with electrolysis in France, and no doctors in the beauty salon. But you are right, nobody worry about.
What’s more, Laser has a best ROI, and doctors are making a lobby, for make money with such a technology.
That why law will never change (for the moment).
Apparently the sad situation in France wasn’t always that way.
I read an interesting article today.
A French guy deserted the army in 1915 and for a long time he dressed as a woman to avoid detection. When the truth came out a lot of people wanted to know how he got rid of his beard.
His answer: “Ich ließ meinen Bart mit Hilfe der elektrischen Epilation verschwinden.”
Electrolysis! 