Hello.
I also have a doctor’s appointment for this Friday but before I go there, I though it would be best to get an idea from the people who are in this business.
I had electrolysis done on all of my body except for the legs. It worked… However, now my skin looks like this… All the follicles have turned white and they look bumpy even though they can’t be felt when touched. Are they burn marks?
Before you take a look at the pictures, here is some info about me. I am of Middle eastern origin and had undergone 5 laser treatments before. The electrolysis done in these areas was completed 7 years ago and to this day my skin looks like this. out of desperation and fear I couldn’t go to a doctor to this day.
I have keratosis pillaris all over my body now and my pores, even the ones that don’t have any hair in them get bumpy and when I squeeze them, a white substance comes out. So this look on my skin might be keratosis pillaris, but the thing is that the skin on my back is not bumpy at all. It feels very smooth.
Also, some parts where no probe had been inserted on my chest looked similar to this when they had hair. After the hair was removed, they did not flatten.
-Would getting a chemical peel help me get a better looking skin?
-I had been on accutane for 4.5 months, took a relatively small dose and have been clean for 14 weeks. Gonna get electrolysis done on my behind/on my beard. I know people say that we have to wait for 6 months after discontinuing the medication, but I won’t have any chance of getting my treatment in the future… I feel like my skin is healthy now though. But after every electrolysis session (thermolysis) my body always forms scabs that doesn’t heal for a month. Should there be further complications in your opinions?
The areas you present in the photos were “finished with laser and electrolysis some 7-years ago?” Thus, I’m seeing actual scars from the procedures that are not going away.
Chemical peels or laser “resurfacing” will not work on these scars because they are full-depth-skin columns of scar tissue (collagen). It’s too late to fire-up the collagen-turnover process. You can’t peel off the entire skin and you have too many scars to use any kind of injectable (or oral) steroid. Sadly, "the train has left the station.’
Scabs not “healing for a MONTH” is a bad deal. If scabs from, 7 - 10 days maximum and they should be gone. “No Bueno” on the long-lasting scabs. Most likely you were repeatedly overtreated, and thus you have this built-up plug of scar tissue.
Oddly, electrolysis usually “cures” keratosis pillaris … so I do not know what to say about this. The substance you say comes out of squeezed follicles is a mystery to me.
Clearly, for me anyway, this is a situation for a dermatologist only. I’m reasonably sure about the scars (sorry), but the other difficulties with your skin? No clue.
Additionally, scars form more easily on the back than on the chest. Even in surgery, patients are advised that “scar revision” on the back seldom works … this is unlike the chest or tummy area. This is “lucky,” because women often need breast surgery or augmentation (or revisions) and in almost all cases the area heals with no visible scar. Not so on the back.
If a patient has a scar he wants revised on the back, Dr. Chapple will seldom attempt to make it look better because the revision usually ends up looking like the original scar. (Lovely “run-on” sentence for your entertainment!)
Yeah thank you for being honest with me. I thought the same as well… However what gives me hope is the fact that… Some of my groin/chest area looked exactly the same prior to electrolysis… Maybe they can make the scars look less visible somehow. Maybe there is hope but I don’t know at this point. I hate what I have become.
How about the last question though… would it be safe for me to undergo another session on my behind? is my recovery time enough? i have been off accutane for almost 3.5 months.
The only thing that might work on the skin damage is micro-needling (also called collagen induction therapy) because it can reach down to the full depth of the damage without creating new scar tissue OR ablating the surface of the skin. I am in the process of pursuing this same treatment for some skin damage around my mouth due to overzealous thermolysis almost a decade ago. Having said that, you have a lot of surface to cover and I don’t know that microneedling would be practical in your case. I am not an electrologist, but I AM trained in skincare, and I agree that scabs from any treatment like this should NOT be lasting a month.
I have been reading a lot.
I have arrived at the same conclusion. Micro needling with a 3mm dermaroller combined with a dermastamp on some sensitive areas might cut it.
However that is how my skin is I think. Even when I pop a zit on my leg it takes at least 1 month for the scab to fall off. Nothing I can do to make it heal faster.
The doctor was busy and he postphoned the apoointment to wednesday. I’ll give you the update then.
Sorry for the late and long post. Please “bear” with me for a while pun intended though I am not as hairy as I was before…
Ok have seen a dermatologist and another electrologist.
The doctor says fraxel is the way to go. In other words they are after my money. Using a laser does not take much skill and is faster than other methods, right? Including electrolysis when it comes to removing unwanted hair… He also said that my skin reacted this way because it was very fragile and not of high quality. In that case, how will my skin will handle these laser treatments I wonder. He did not even consider skin needling as an option, which is weird to me since I just needled a hypertrophic burn scar that was left on my chin from laser hair removal by an nd yag laser, and you know… It looks better now. It surely doesn’t look as raised. Granted the scab just fell off and left a tinier scab that is in healing but I can’t see the edges of my scar anymore. Also the scar was not bigger than any of my individual electrolysis scars anyways.
And the other electrologist whom I saw who is named as one of the best in Turkey… told me that it could have been worse, the scars aren’t that bad and referred me to another doctor, whom I believe will insist on using the fraxel on me again.
You know I have had enough… I don’t deserve this, no one does. I am in desperate need of help and only this forum can assist me in accomplishing my goals.
I have decided on going to germany to get the rest of my treatments done. I wanted to visit miss Josefa 10 years ago but thought, “hey, there are plenty of electrologists in Turkey practicing on people for decades now, surely they can handle me and it wouldn’t be as costly as getting it done in Spain, I mean what could go wrong”… Little did I know people. I am sorry for I am the only one to blame here. Now I hear she is so full that she is not taking anyone new anymore. Or some crook did something to her so she doesn’t want to take people from these boards anymore, I don’t know. All I know is that I can’t book an appointment with her. So instead, I have decided on going to Germany.
I was on accutane for 4.5 months (low dose) and the “6 months of not getting any cosmetic procedure done on your body” period will expire in september. Which is when I plan on going to germany.
I sent Dr. Beate Ritzert a message but I guess she is busy nowadays. One of her posts mentioned a Dr. Magdalene Ehring, whom I sent a mail as well. Awaiting for a response now.
I am kind of in a terrible, panicky mood right now and need to prepare myself for the worst, which is, In case I can’t get a reply from anyone I have tried to establish contact with (or can’t book a session), can you guys suggest me an electrologist who knows how to work on “fragile skin of low quality”? I have but 6 hours of work left to be done. And can visit periodically for future treatments, I guess.
This is a very important matter for me because I am moving to thailand this year and don’t want to leave this problem unsolved.
Also will pursue skin needling treatments for my scarring in germany. Somehow I am pretty sure it will make the scarring look a little better (because I have been needling my skin on occasion with a sewing needle to remove scars, little freckles, moles and it seemed to work all the time)
Thank you for your time people. Thanks in advance for your help.
Here are some more pictures showcasing my laser/electrolysis scarring.
Sorry for the bad quality, the camera I used couldn’t get better pics. But these are enough to show the damage I have received over the years.
If you focus on my fingers, you can see little pinhead spots where the probe were inserted. They left little white spots.
As for the scars on my chin… I had corrective surgery on the scar that you can see in the picture on the left. It was caused by an nd yag laser.
The picture in the center shows the area I have used a needle on. It is still in healing but the original scar was bigger and the edges are completely gone after one needling session which gives me hope… The original scab fell off prematurely and another one has taken its place.
I originally posted the pictures of my chin some years ago under a different user name which I have lost the password for and wanted to show you how they look today.
Edit: I can’t seem to fix the post to show the pictures but you can see the pictures by clicking on the links.
Also, some good news, I was able to book an appointment. I will revisit this topic if I manage to find someone who can work on my scarring.
I’m curious, what type of electrolysis did you have?
Maybe it’s the picture but I don’t find the white spots really noticeable. I understand they shouldn’t be there, anyway. But if it’s any relief, I don’t think they’re anything to feel embarrassed about.
The camera couldn’t get them but they are really noticeable and they are all over my body, I mean you have seen the pictures of my back and arms already. The ones on my fingers are exactly the same. unfortunately
I had flash done on me but they must have cranked the settings to the limit. I had three electrologists, the first one used an apilus cleo from the 80s and she must have been low on customers because she was plucking some of the hairs without properly treating them so that I would keep visiting her constantly (and I was not the only person who complained about this). the second one was in a city 6 hours away from me. She treated my back and arms using either an sm-500 or a junior ( can’t remember) and caused the scarring which made me give up on electrolysis for about 4 years. Then someday I wanted the remaining hair to be killed and found another expert close to me. she had a cleo from the 80s again…and worked on my chest and stomach. It wasn’t as bad, but still, some of the areas she treated scarred as well. And at one point she said two things to me. She said she wasn’t in any position to crank the settings up any more (which I guess she must have used the max settings on me again). I had paid her a visit around the same time I decided to get the remaining treatments done in germany and told her about the newer probe some of the pros are using on these boards, don’t remember the name but it only delivers the current to the follicle. without burning the surrounding skin. She told me exactly this : “oh then I’ll have to stick the probe into the hair follicle”. which made me wonder… was she not going all the way down before and instead relying on the gold probe’s ability to burn the surrounding skin to treat the hair follicles? I don’t have the patience to think about these things anymore. Maybe it is really due to how weak my skin is.
I will see the truth in september when I get the remaining hair eliminated.
My ex girlfriend asked me about these scars when she saw them and it already embarrased me beyond belief. Granted it wasn’t important to her but I don’t want to go through the same emotions again if I get involved with someone else in the future. I know they are not that bad, but if they can be corrected, then why shouldn’t I try fixing them?
I’ve found this page by an electrologist who explains why flash thermolysis may bring about bleaching. Apparently, it has to do with the overlapping of heat applied session after sessions. http://wchr-rocks.com/?page_id=177
While I like the person you are talking about, some of her dialogue is not fact-based and sort of the result of "over-thinking’ hair removal issues; I mean, not based on lots of clinical observations.
The below statements are cases in point.
From her website: "Properly applied, galvanic electrolysis will not damage surrounding tissue, nor will it damage the sebaceous glands which provide essential oils to keep the skin looking young.’ (There is no evidence that DC will "not damage surrounding tissue or sebaceous glands.’ The idea is just something the person "thinks.’ BTW, my teacher, Art Hinkel described common tiny scars associated with Galvanic-only treatments.)
"Scarier yet, is the possibility that any process that uses heat for killing the hair may also damage, if not outright destroy, this bundle of stem cells and result in reduced ability of the skin to replenish itself. Hence, premature aging.’ (The idea that destroying "stem cells’ will reduce the skins ability to "replenish itself’ … is a silly supposition. Follicle stem cells are a target for hair removal not just the papilla. Galvanic takes-out follicle stem cells and that’s why it works so well! Furthermore, there are billions of stem cells in other skin structures that allow the skin to "replenish’ itself.)
Going off on ANY modality makes my head explode. I won’t belabor this point, because I’m exhausted speaking to this non-issue.
You know, you can do GREAT treatments with a wide variety of modalities … BUT DON’T MAKE SHIT UP!
Mine doesn’t look just bleached. It is as if the treatments enlarged the pores and then clogged them with a substance. However, they don’t feel bumpy to the touch (%90 of the time). Micro needling “might” work if done intensively to the point where scabbing occurs (can say this from personal experience). I mean it has to do something, I don’t think that it will be ineffective… Let’s see what happens in september.
The small burn mark on my face was brown in color and had noticeable edges before i needled it with a sewing needle. It now looks white and while it is still a little bumpy, it is not nearly as noticeable nor is it ugly. There is just a bump there. I believe further treatments will make it look much better. Overall, I’d say %40 to %50 reduction in appearance.
However, the stupid me decided to needle the other, bigger burn scar which I had received correctional surgery for. That was a bad idea. Let me just say this… I need another surgery on that side of the chin. I guess the guy used a special technique to make the stitch marks resemble the natural curvatures of my face and my needling efforts turned it into what it originally is. A thick, hard to touch stitch mark. Don’t needle any parts where you received any kinds of scar revision surgeries!
Also, I found this post by Mr. Michael Bono from 5 years ago…
Dry needling
"A casual conversation with one of my patients introduced me to a relatively new upcoming treatment. My prediction is that this one is going to be �big.� Bigger than microdermabrasion and permanent makeup! Maybe even beating out �resurfacing lasers!� With my basic understanding of wound-healing and collagen remodeling, this �new� treatment stunned me because I can�t understand why it hasn�t been �discovered� before. This one is based on real science and, well, it just can�t miss.
All the various treatments to minimize wrinkles are based on selective skin injury. Such injury �kicks up� the healing process and ultimately stimulates fibroblasts to remodel the skin�s collagen. Chemical mediators do exist in the epidermis (only as thick as a piece of paper) that will somewhat call forth the healing process. Indeed, this is what micro-dermabrasion is trying to do, but in my opinion it’s not successful � except to cause temporary edema, which gives the client the impression of fewer wrinkles. See, if I slap you hard in the face, your face turns a nice rosy color, swells up a bit and your wrinkles puff up. Retin-A, pretty much does the same � although there are long-term benefits, if you don�t mind prolonged skin sensitivity and flaky skin.
However, for real remodeling you need to go deeper. True dermabrasion removes the epidermis and a good portion of the dermis (it�s a bloody procedure). Although the skin gets somewhat thinner, deep scars (acne) are beautifully remodeled. �Resurfacing� lasers are similar, but less invasive � chemical peels, again, are less invasive. Still, they all aim for the same result: inducing the skin to rebuild itself into a better more beautiful structure. And now, �dry needling!� I�m amazed at the potential.
(Here�s a question for the Hairtell folks: If the entire epidermis is removed during a dermabrasion procedure, how does the epidermis grow back?)
Okay, back to our story: Clinically, a physician noticed that scars seemed to be minimized by permanent (makeup) tattoos! Experimentation showed that using a tattoo machine without ink engendered the same result! Presently there are several kinds of instruments that will accomplish this �needling effect.� There are little needle rollers and needle stamps � but my choice is for the full tattoo-type machine that will really get in and stir things up. What I like especially is that the skin is not being removed at all and there are no chemicals used � and no burning laser. It�s a very �natural� procedure. Our skin has evolved for millions of years and it knows exactly what to do with a �puncture wound!� (Micro-dermabrasion, by the way, causes facial telangiectasia!)
Promoters of such needling devices say that they are only �needling the epidermis� � but this is absolutely not the case. As you know, the epidermis is bloodless. and even in their promotional literature they show that the skin gets pretty bloody from the procedure. Bloody? Well, that�s why I like the treatment! Since they are (actually) going where the normal tattoo needle goes, they are going to have a magnificent result. That is where you need to be! The entire healing process is going to get started, fibroblasts are going to remodel the collagen layer and wrinkles and scars are going to be �filled.� � long-term or permanently It just can�t miss.
The big danger, of course, is for potential infection. Pre-op skin preparation absolutely must be followed to avoid serious problems. I suppose tattoo artists are following appropriate procedures, but I can�t imagine the horror if the patient already had staph on their skin and then got �needled.� Of course, reported infections from tattoo and permanent makeup is remarkable low � so, this will probably not be a big concern. (I would even go the full Betadyne or Hibiclen pre-surgery prep.) Certainly, as this treatment gets rolling, Health Authorities will develop clinical protocols to follow. I�m sure this treatment is going to find itself in the offices of estheticians and, in California, our State Board will have multiple heart attacks and strokes trying to regulate the procedure. This technique is going to work and it will rival the best laser treatments. This is going to be a case or �low tech� beating out �high tech.� It�s coming folks and (maybe) you heard it here first?"
Also I found these links that were put up by the same person.
Why shouldn’t it work on my scars? I have nothing else left to hope for at this point. I was able to overlook the fact that I had been scarred for the longest time I could but some recent developments with my personal life have made me realize that something must be done.
From what I have read online, tattooing is done between 1 to 2mms under the skin. There are derma rollers and derma pens that can penetrate deeper into the skin. Since there is not a dry tattoo artist in this neck of the woods, I’ll have to resort to either one of the micro needling options.
Sure it’s going to be painful but consider the amount of pain I had to endure in order to get rid of my body hair? I can stand it. Mind over matter. I’ll use numbing creams if I have to. The real problem is finding someone capable, which in a country like Turkey, is exactly like winning the lottery.
That’s it for today. NEVER needle the scars you received revisional surgery for.
Edit: The good ole dermatologist of mine put me on tretinoin %0.1. Told me he believes it would fix about %30 to 50 of the damage. I’ll post the results after applying it everynight for 26 years.
Yes, we are fiddling with various versions of this process. Important is timing … not too soon especially.
The process is designed to start the “collagen turnover” process and has some (limited) effects on various skin problems, e.g., fine wrinkles. I’m set to try this out myself and show what happens. Although I have so many WRINKLES I don’t know exactly where to start?
Sigh… I hate my life and I hate living in Turkey…
I know this hasn’t do much about the electrolysis, but I wanted to share my feelings.
In case you might not have heard… There is a big theater play going on in this country in order for the current regime to achieve total dominance over people, much like what happened in Iran in the past. The regime had some unknown “insurgent” group within the military stage a coup and it is being suppressed atm. As if the military was going to attempt taking over the government with no real plan at all, right? France has closed down it’s embassies a few days ago. I am in total panic right now because this affects my future electrolysis treatments to a great extend. I was able to get an appointment with Dr. Beate, thankfully, and if this situation can’t be resolved until my appointment, I might not be able to get my European visa. I am at a loss right now…
I wasn’t able to get any sleep last night… I still have my american visa which allows me to stay up to 6 months upon arrival. If worst comes to worst, I’ll have to cancel my plans of moving to Thailand temporarily and move to a place where I can be near to an electrologist. Maybe I’ll come to you Michael I don’t know. Book a cheap room via airbnb.com … Though, I know flying overseas for such a simple treatment is overkill, I don’t have the will to go on anymore. The hair and the scars have to go.
My priority is to make it to my appointment With Dr. Beate Ritzert NO MATTER WHAT. If my visa application gets rejected because of the ongoing chaos we have right now I will let her know about 1 month prior to my appointment with her and apologize so that she can book other people in need in my stead. I don’t want to victimize her because of the things that are out of my control.
I can’t tell these things to any of my friends anymore, they just don’t understand. I think I might have fallen in love with somebody who is just the perfect person for me. I have not felt like this for anyone in the past 10 years or so. However, I don’t want to impose her or anyone of her status to go out with a person such as me. This is how I feel at the moment.
I also have decided to report these electrologists to the police. Which I should have done a long time ago I guess. But I did not want to be put on the spot. Didn’t want to be called as a witness and flaunt my body all the time… But last night man… I had so much time to reflect on what happened to me… remembered about the painful treatments I had to endure. Money I had to scrape together as a student to be able to afford my treatments… No one reports their earnings honestly to the government here, so I have decided to report them to the police on the basis of tax evasion.
Today is almost a year after my last electrolysis treatment. You know what I realized when I was looking in the mirror? My last electrologist burned me in the face in three spots, 2 on my upper lip and one in the area between my eyebrows. They left little raised bumps, resembling hypertrophic acne scarring but they are so small, that I wasn’t able to see them up until they got irritated due to the intense heatwave we are having atm. I got this scar removal cream called Contractubex, which is said to break down scar tissue and make them less visible. I will apply it religiously until the scars go away. I hope it works.
I also have been reading a lot of stuff about scars and the products/procedures that remove them. They say that full thickness burns cause the nerves to die so you Don’t feel your skin when a needle is sticked into the scars. Hey I feel the prickling so mine maybe not full thickness burns? Hooray I guess.
I will try not to post again until I achieve some real progress with my future electrolysis treatments/scar removal. However, today was pretty bad so I wanted to share my feelings to anyone out there.
My camera couldn’t focus much on the scarring on my arm but let me assure you that it looks terrible. Worse than how it looks in the picture. It doesn’t look much different than the sides of my tummy. As for my neck area, it doesn’t look as bad as the tummy or the arms. Howver, there are still white pigmentless spots remaining if you focus on them.
Also, I had no idea I had scars on my upper lip as well. The scars turned red because I tried needling on them with no success. Electrolysis created little white pockets on the areas where the probe were inserted. They all appeared a year after my last treatment.
The scarring on My chin were from an nd yag. as you can see I pretty much messed up the big red spot on the upper side of the picture by needling it. The smaller, hypertrophic scar however has benefited MUCH from needling. It looked way worse and noticeable before.
I will be seeing a plastic surgeon after my visa procedures are complete for the red scarring on my face. The same guy who fixed it before. Will ask for his advice on what can be done on the electrolysis marks as well.
