Very Hairy Back Seeks Laser Advice

Hi Guys

Firstly let me say what an awesome resource this forum is. There are some seriously knowledgeable people in here, and its a credit to them that they take the time to share.

I am based in London and am looking to start laser hair removal on my back. I have coarse, dark hair all over my back (skin type II), and enough is enough! I basically am looking for advice on the best laser to use and the optimal settings.

I know that high joules and large spot size are the best, but there is frankly an alarming number of different machines out there and I could do with some guidance which is best for my situation, best pulse length etc?

A number of years back it seemed that the Alexandrite Apogee was the best option, although I’m sure technology has moved on …

I fully intend on documenting my progress with photos and regular posts of my experiences as I feel I represent someone at the hairy extreme! The picture attached will be the first of many - and I intend on kick starting this process asap.

All your advice is sincerely appreciated!

Thanks,

Baboon

It’s been nearly 2 months since my 7th treatment with Candela GentleLase (20/25) ?? J/cm2 fluence - 15mm spot size - 3ms pulse duration on my back. I am now seeing regrowth averaging 0.5 cm. But, the growth is rather patchy; some areas seem to have very few number of hairs. I don’t know if these areas will become hairy, time will tell. So far, the result is good.

Shoulders, back and upper arms do not respond to LHR as much as other areas do. So, it is hard get rid of hairs on the back area. After 5 treatments, you will probably have same number of hairs but those will be finer.

I am type II-III male by the way.

Edit: Here is two photos on my progress.

Read the FAQ and the finding a practitioner thread. Those will both help.

Candela GentleLASE is an Alexandrite laser. The pulse width does not change. It is one of the most widely used lasers and it also has the largest spot size at 18mm. A larger spot size makes treatments quicker and easier for both you and the practitioner.

Find a practitioner that is reputable with a GentleLASE machine. 18mm spot size 16j minimum.

Men generally need more treatments than women. With the proper settings and a competent practitioner there is no reason you cannot end up with a 90% reduction.

Goodluck

I beleive the only two places in london that use Gentlelase are - Cannons Health Club (ask for the retreat when you call) and Laser clear in liverpool street.

Good luck.

Hey Guys, thanks for the advice… I emailed Cannons, but they haven’t replied to me. This weekend I will call them up and book.

I’m pretty sure that the Gentlelase is the way ahead, but I’m still keeping an open mind! Whatever I do, I want the maximum Joules that I can take.

Do you think they’ll want to stick to moderate settings to avoid a potential lawsuit?! Or do these guys tend to listen to their clients and pump up the power to the maximum level that can be tolerated?

Thanks

Baboon.

As long as you have the appropriate skin type for an alexandrite laser, there is no permanent side effects from the max settings. Its just going to hurt a bit more and cause more of a reaction to your skin.

On 18mm spot size 20j is max. 16j is the minimum setting to receive results IMO. So 16,18, or 20 would be fine. Good luck.

Awesome.

My skin type is almost certainly a II, so the max settings should be fine. A 90 % reduction would be amazing, but I’m not going to expect miracles just yet.

I know the technology is dated, and there are have been reports of it being unsafe, but I always though the Ruby 694 was the “ultimate” if you had pale skin… Seems the Alexandrite has replaced it.

Its only unsafe in the wrong hands. Skin type II will be fine with an alexandrite and a competent practitioner.

I do not know any practitioners using a ruby laser. Thats old school.

GentleLASE is an alex and one of the best machines on the market. Those settings above apply to this machine specifically. The max setting etc will be different on other machines.

There are several London threads here discussing various clinics. Search for it.

Ruby is no longer being used since it was only safe on very very pale skin.

Be prepared to need numbing cream and/or icing if you truly have very coarse dense hair. High settings are effective, but also hurt. :slight_smile:

Ok, time for a very belated update.

In between my last post and this post I actually moved abroad, so I never got to use any London clinics. However, I found a clinic in my new country of residence and had my first treatment 4 days ago.

I was treated on my upper arms, shoulders and full back with a Candela GentleMAX (alexandrite setting) at 20J and an 18mm spot size. The evening prior to my treatment I shaved my arms and shoulders, and on the day of my treatment the nurse shaved my back. I didn’t use any numbing cream, but did neck a couple of painkillers about 30 mins before the treatment.

I’m glad I did, because the laser was definitely more painful than “a rubber band snap”. Some areas were less painful than others, I guess depending on the density of the hair, but generally the shoulders / upper back were most painful. I have a reasonably high pain threshold, but at times it really did make me wince. I was determined to use the highest settings, and the pain at least made me realise that the follicles were being damaged - which is the whole point.

The whole treatment took only 90 minutes, which is quick when you consider the amount of hair I have (see photo link on first post), I am also a big guy, and my back is a large area. The nurse was very thorough, she had 7 years experience, and I could tell she was overlapping the shots to get complete coverage. She marked me up with a white pencil after shaving me and systematically worked over each section. After the treatment I was slathered with Aloe Vera and headed home. I must admit, I felt pretty worn out by the treatment, I guess anticipating each zap and bracing for it will do that to you.

The post-treatment pain feels pretty much like you’ve been sunburnt. My back / arms are clearly a nice shade of red, and I have distinct red spots over my pores. The redness is just starting to subside, after taking a good day or two to peak. It definitely isn’t “all over” after just a few hours or even a few days.

My treatments are scheduled at 3 month intervals, to ensure maximum re-growth and to target as many follicles in the growth phase as possible. This is a little longer than the usually quoted 8-10 weeks, but the clinic insisted this was the optimal method, and was critical of the notion of anything less. They did acknowledge that certain body parts require different gaps between treatments. Apparently some unscrupulous establishments will have clients in every 6 weeks or so, which only serves to keep their books full and the cash rolling in!

Anyhow, I will add some photos over the next few weeks and continue to document my process. I feel very pleased to have finally gone through with the treatment after procrastinating for so long (many years, in my case), and would urge anyone who is in limbo to find a good laser and reputable practitioner and “just do it”.

Baboon.

6 weeks is fine, 3 months is long. Longer is better than short though. Usually it’s 6-8 weeks in general, legs are usually a bit longer. As long as the hair is back then it’s okay to go. Anything under 6 is too short though usually better to wait at least 8 weeks before another session. It’s been 14 weeks since my last session on my arms, just haven’t had time to go and wanted to lose my tan. There’s been no change in the amount of hair on my arms since prob week 9 or 10.

Hey Baboon,

Sounds like the treatment energy was very good, so hopefully there was a lot of “kill”. Thanks for your update and I really mean it! I sincerely hope there is no stimulated growth.

edokid, I think 6 weeks is too short for most areas if you’re aiming to get it done in few treatments as possible. Other than maybe the face. Even my underarm treatments in the beginning were 8 weeks apart.

Most people don’t see hair start to come back until about week 6, so even if you wait until week 12 for the next session, the earliest hair has only been there for 6 weeks… therefore still most likely in the growth phase?? (Please someone correct me if I’m thinking along the wrong lines).

Like you mentioned, it’s probably best to go back once all the hair has come through and there is no longer any change. It maybe be a bit earlier than week 12 but I doubt by many weeks.

Baboon - your clinic sounds really good. Not only because they seem thorough but this is the first time I have heard of a clinic that actually tells you to come back later for optimal treatment! (and therefore fewer sessions).

“imokay” has been updating her daughter’s progress and her clinic suggested treatment every 3 weeks!

Could you post some photos? Is all the hair being treated coarse?

Yes, 3 months is a bit too long for these areas. You don’t want to wait so long that the hair is not longer in the active growth phase. The longest I would wait for the first 3 treatments at least is 2 months apart.

Hey guys, thanks for all your comments and feedback!

The clinic took lots of photos before the treatment, and will take more prior to each following session - so I’ll get copies of those and post them up. I would say the hair is pretty coarse everywhere, but obviously there is some degree of variability. The type of hair in the photo on my very first post is representative of all the areas I am having treated.

I thought 3 months was a little long as well, but they were pretty insistent that this was optimal. I may shunt it forward a couple of weeks depending on how the growth is. I feel fortunate that my practitioner has 7 years experience of doing this, most of the posts I read indicate that far less is the norm…

Baboon.

I wouldn’t worry too much about timing. Just call and make your next appt whenever you feel you’re ready. No need to argue with them.

Ok guys, it’s been about 2 months since my first treatment of full back, upper arms and shoulders, and I thought I’d post a progress report. My second treatment is scheduled in about a month, at which point I’ll post pictures taken at the clinic.

New growth really didn’t start until about 6 weeks after the first treatment, and seems to have picked up in the past few weeks. I guess everything was stunned initially and took a while to re-group :slight_smile:

Having said that, the hairs that have appeared are more sparsely distributed and I am pleased with the way things are looking and seem to be progressing. Shedding look a while, and I had “pepper spots” for a good while - at least a month - after the initial treatment. I tried to resist the urge to pluck out the dead hairs, but I think thats more or less impossible and I had a go now and then. The dead hairs are easy to spot and they slide out very easily with little or no resistance when you apply a pair of tweezers.

Anyhow, I am looking forward to my next session (not the pain, though) and will provide a full update including pictures from both just before my first treatment and just before my second treatment.

Baboon

The hairs weren’t “stunned”. Hopefully, they were killed. So they haven’t “regrouped”. What you’re seeing now is NEW hair from the next cycle of growth.

Wondering why you’re waiting another month. 8-10 weeks since last treatment is the right time to treat again and sounds like you’re almost there and the hair is present and ready to be treated.

There is no hard in plucking the dead hairs as long as you’re not removing anything that gives resistance.

UPDATE

OK, so today I had my second treatment on my back, shoulders and upper arms. This treatment was 3 months after my initial treatment. It was the same laser (GentleMAX), although this time the settings were at 18J and 18mm spot size. The pulse width was 5ms (I actually thought the pulse width only had 1 setting, that of 3 ms, but I saw this setting with my own eyes). Anyhow, for reasons I won’t go into, the 20J setting was not possible today. I was a little disappointed at this, but i still feel the treatment was effective - I have lots of red spots to prove it!

The treatment still hurt quite a bit, although not as bad as the first treatment – I guess this is partly due to slightly lower fluence and partly due to less dense hair. All in all the treatment took about 90 minutes.

As promised, I have uploaded photos (see below) which show my progress. The photos are labelled and show my situation before my first treatment, and then the same (ish) photo 3 months after my first treatment. I hope these are useful for people. I certainly am encouraged by what I can see so far and welcome all your feedback and comments.

Thanks!

Baboon

http://img822.imageshack.us/i/back1o.jpg/
http://img824.imageshack.us/i/leftshoulder.jpg/
http://img689.imageshack.us/i/lowerback.jpg/
http://img811.imageshack.us/i/rightflank.jpg/

Thanks for the update and photos. Those settings are good. GentleLASE has a fixed 3ms pulse width. But GentleMax has an adjustable pulse width, which is why 5ms is possible.

Generally, your hair is dense, but not all of it is coarse. So I’d expenct a good reduction, but not a 95%+ removal. I would say around 70-80% removal is possible in my opinion. The remaining hair will be more sparse and fine.

The lower back has the least coarse hair. It’s also a bit lighter in color.

I would definitely try not not wait longer than 10-12 weeks for your next treatment so you don’t miss the anagen phase of growth. 8-12 weeks is best.