It’s not permanent and I’m not going to get into all the discussion on it, you can search that out here yourself. The reviews on these sites are posted by employees not real people. To permanently disable a hair follicle it has to be heated to around 127 degrees which the Tria cannot do. If it could, there would be lawsuits all over the place with people suing for severe burns. You also cannot use that picture as a guide or proof because it shows he has been using it the whole time. The only way to tell if you have achieved permanency is to stop using the device for at least 6-8 months and see what comes back. There’s no doubt that the tria does slow growth and reduce it, and if you’re fine using it every few weeks forever, then you may get the results that you want. 5 weeks of professional treatments with GentleLASE would have had better clearance than that picture shows. Again 3 months is not long enough to judge. I wish LAGirl was around she would explain it better. Also Tria does say it’s permanent, it’s all over their website so not sure where you see it’s not permanent. You’re definitely right about the concept of heating it to the point of damage, however the Tria just can’t do it. I’ve owned the Tria and the Silk’n and they’re both gone long ago on eBay because they do nothing. One session at a professional clinic gave me better results than those 2 machines combined for 6 months I owned them.
In 3 months, Vulpes will hopefully post again and we’ll see if it is permanent. Everything else is speculation and theory, not practice.
(And just a clarification: You stated “You also cannot use that picture as a guide or proof because it shows he has been using it the whole time.” Just to be clear, it shows he had been using the Tria for the whole year, and then he stopped for 3 months, and then took the photo.)
Exactly what I said, meaning he’s been using it non stop for a year then stopped for 3 months. It’s not like it’s a year since he stopped using it and those are his results, that would be different.
Everything else is not speculation and theory, I dont’ think you even read this actual forum post because reading through it everyone is just writing about how Tria doesn’t work, and how it’s 24 joules as a diode laser where as diodes in clinics like LightSheer use 35-45 joules.
I don’t work for a laser company, I have experience with different types. It’s very easy to fall into the mindset of you wanting it to work. I’ve been there as well as most others. You buy the device hoping that it will work and wanting it to work so bad, that all you do is read positive feedback, and any time someone says something negative you tend to skim over it or think they don’t know what they mean, only because you want it to work so bad. In the end experience will show how it works.
This forum is based on hair facts, it’s unbiased and is a knowledge base for hair removal from people who are professionals, and people who have experience. I could really care less whether it works for you or doesn’t, I’m simply telling you the truth. If it worked as well as it’s supposed to then everyone and their uncle would have one. I wish you luck in your quest and hope that it works out for you.
I got my Tria2 from Nordstrom today. I just tested it on my arm at the medium setting(about 12 joules), and found it to be uncomfortable. I have gone through one session on YAG on my underarms(at 24 joules and 20 ms pulse width)and the pain was about equal to what I am experiencing on Tria2. I am surprised at the level of pain I am feeling on Tria2.
I plan to continue, but this time with an ice pack to cool my skin before applying Tria2.
With ice pack, I was able to go up to the highest setting(22 joules), and it hurt more than the YAG commercial laser. I should be able to reduce some of the pain with a closer shave(or the use of hair removal cream).
This product is not for those with a low pain threshhold.
I had spent about $2400 on laser hair removal sessions before deciding to buy the Tria. In general it has similar results to paid sessions, but it takes a lot of cycles to do a good job. For example it takes me two battery charges to do my abdomen, but like the directions say I double back a lot. A clean shave is essential, otherwise it hurts too much, and there may also be a lot of redness a couple days later. It seems like the key is to stay on top of it, never letting more than a month go by without re-treating the same area. I used to be a pretty hairy dude. It will be interesting to see how permanent the results are. The short term results are better than any other method I’ve tried. I can stay smooth for weeks now.
I worked on my abdomen today, and it hurt much less than on my arm. Cooling the treatment area with an ice pack before, during, and after certainly helps. I had a much closer shave on my abdomen than my arm, and that certainly helped lessen the pain. It still hurts, and I am not looking forward to countless treatments.
I am off for an electrolysis appointment to get rid of some grey hair on my chest. It will give me a good idea on how it compares, painwise, to laser.
I have had two electrolysis treatments on my chest using the blend method since my last post. Relative to lasers, it is a different kind of pain. Needle insertion hasn’t been painful, but at times the treatment(application of current and heat) did cause discomfort. However, the most painful part for me is the removal of hair after the treatment.
My electrologist indicated that my hair is coarse, and therefore the roots are large which leads to the pain when the hair is pulled out.
For me, the TRIA2 home laser has been the most painful so far. It is a tossup between commercial laser and electrolysis. The duration of pain is shorter, but more intense with a commercial laser(underarms) than electrolysis(chest).
I continue to work on arms and stomach with TRIA2 and will update periodically.
The hair should slide out easily after it is treated. Sometimes it feel like a pop if the structure below the skin is bigger that the follicle opening. It should not hurt like a tweezed hair would hurt. If a client would tell me that it hurts more when I lift the hair out, then that would serve as a red flag that I need to increase the timing or the intensity.
The hair should slide out easily after it is treated. Sometimes it feel like a pop if the structure below the skin is bigger that the follicle opening. It should not hurt like a tweezed hair would hurt. If a client would tell me that it hurts more when I lift the hair out, then that would serve as a red flag that I need to increase the timing or the intensity. [/quote]
Thanks for the tip. I will speak to my electrologist and find out if she would change the setting or timing. At present, she is able to treat and pull about 2-3 hairs/min.
Is she using blend? That would be about right for blend, but with MicroFlash or Picoflash thermolysis, she could move along at 10-12 hairs per minute or faster if she is so inclined with a good set up.
I think so. I am holding on to a wet sponge on a cord that is connected to the machine.
Okay. It is most likely blend because of the lower hair count. So, you are getting <200 hairs per hour. If you hold onto something while getting thermolysis,then your electrologist is working in auto sensor mode, which is what I do.
The Tria arrived in the UK some time in 2007, and in the US in early 2008. (Apparently a version existed in Japan even earlier than that, but good luck translating any of that.)
So with 2007 only 3 years ago (or less if it wasn’t at the start of 2007) we’re only just approaching the time when we’ll begin to have actual data from people who have been using the Tria long-term, and have had time to rest from its use and see what may grow back.
What we have instead are theories based on knowledge about how the Tria works, and knowledge about how salon lasers work. Some people are advancing the theory that perhaps a long duration burst at 24 joules (from a Tria) may not be as effective as a quick burst at 35-45 joules (from a salon laser). Others, notably the makers of Tria themselves, are proponents of the theory that maybe it is, at least somewhat.
In time, we will know which theory turns out to be correct.
I never meant to suggest that the absolute facts, the measurements of the joules, the experience with follicles being toasted at higher temperatures were not accurate. That’s undeniable. But that is not enough to base an expectation of the Tria on.
You can toast a million follicles with at 35-45 joules, and that does not contribute one bit of knowledge to how a follicle reacts to 24 joules with a more sustained burst.
The missing info about whether heating follicles for a longer time at a lower heat is or is not comparable makes all the theories speculative (as all theories are).
Experts in lasers, biology, …and maybe cooking… all have valuable knowledge to contribute, but ultimately anyone trying the Tria now cannot depend on either theory, because even the best theories are routinely trumped by reality.
By the way I totally support using salons for laser hair removal. They are absolutely the first step anyone considering hair reduction should take. But I won’t start out any posts with a declaration of “The Tria isn’t permanent!” until we actually know from experience if that theory is borne out. You’ll just have to pardon me for not being willing to take a leap of faith into either side of the competing theories. My own speculation is that the Tria won’t be very effective …but I’m willing to be surprised!
The problem is not with the joules. It’s with the pulse width. Effective pulse widths are under 30ms. This thing is at 600ms, rendering is ineffective for long term removal.
After reading this entire thread there is one piece of information that is missing. Epidermis and hair follicles have thermal relaxation times (TRT). Anybody who engineers any kind of laser or IPL for hair removal knows this. The great engineers who put their names and their reputations on the line know this. The thermal relaxation time is the time it takes the target tissue to decrease by 63% of the target temperature. Epidermal TRT is between 3 and 7 milliseconds. The follicle TRT varies widely from 1 to 100 milliseconds. For a laser pulse to cause permanent damage to a hair follicle it must meet the following criteria. The pulse must be longer than the TRT of the epidermis but less than the the TRT of the follicle. To make it simple, longer than 7 milliseconds but less than 100. Do you see the problem with the Tria? It can’t provide enough energy fast enough to heat up the follicle to cause permanent damage. After 100 milliseconds the follicle starts radiating any extra energy put into it. This is why the Tria hurts more than professional lasers. With a professional laser treatment, there is sufficient fluence with a faster pulse to heat the follicle rapidly before it has a chance to radiate the heat away and cause pain. The engineers knew this but decided to take the money instead of simply staying away from a bad idea. A professional laser may go up to 100 milliseconds but nobody would use that long of a pulse because it’s almost ineffective. So the Tria uses a pulse at least three times longer than an ineffective treatment protocol on a professional machine. The results people are describing are exactly what I would expect and what those engineers knew before releasing it to the unsuspecting public. Sorry to say folks but you can buy a $10.00 waxing kit from Walmart and get the same results.
Slight correction to the above post. The pulse doesn’t have to be longer than 7 milliseconds. That should have been longer than 3 milliseconds. Ooops, Sorry. At three milliseconds you will see more epidermal heating but the Alexandrite laser is fine at this low setting since the absorption of oxyhemoglobin and water are not competing strongly with melanin for photons. A ruby laser would also be fine at this setting with minimal skin cooling but I would not use a 3 millisecond setting on a diode or Nd:Yag unless there was lots of skin cooling going on pre, during and post treatment.
The only Yag that goes down to 3ms is the GentleYAG. Other Yags and all diodes only go down to 10ms.
Your analysis is pretty spot on. I would also consider including the impact of spot sizes. It makes a big difference as well, which is why Candela lasers are some of the best ones with 18mm spot sizes and 3ms pulse widths.
Btw, I returned my Tria today as I wasn’t very confident about its effectiveness. I will update with results in about 3-6 months on select areas on my arm and hand where I used it extensively.
I also zapped a few stray hairs on my arm about 10-15 times. I did see growth after the first three treatments, but have not seen any growth for the last 2 weeks. I hope that many treatments killed these few stray hairs. I will update in due course on these hairs.
It would be nice to get an update from Vulpes on Tria’s long term
effectiveness.
My new roommate just purchased this (I didn’t know she was planning on it). I’ll let you know what she thinks after some months of usage.