How long give or take should it take to get first clearance for an entire chin and neck/throat area for a good amount of blonde hairs? I think they are accellerated vellus hairs b/c they are blonde or light brown but some are thick and/or long and stick out at 90 degree angles.
At first I thought the ones that stuck out were not as numerous but now that I have not tweezed at all for a full month I have realized that I pretty much want all the hairs on my throat gone b/c the majority of them now stick straight out and get long.
How long questions are hard to answer over the internet. If you can count all the hair and you know what modality the electrologist uses and her average speed, then an estimate is possible. The way for a newbie to approach this is to schedule longer and more frequent appointments until the noticable hair has been removed.
If I guessed and told you 3-5 hours totally for first full clearance, I might be right or I might be wrong because I can’t see your problem. When I see a client, I can give them a estimate, so maybe your electrologist can give you one if she is so inclined. Variables are numerous because people are individuals. Clients present with their own unique “thumbprint” for hair removal so that is why an electrologist is very guarded about time questions.
If you want this talken care of and you have found a skilled electrologist, you just need to show up as she advises. The structure of hair, the amount of hair, what temporary measure you used before electrolysis, etc., etc., dictate time. Just know that the first six months are the hardest and then if all has been done properly, you start to coast downhill. Give the process 9-12 months, but you may need some shorter appointments spaced farther apart up to the 18th month mark.
All of a sudden consumers are asking about first clearance. Does that mean that we need a definition of first clearance?
Here is my opinion of the definition, which may need some work!
Clearance is when all the visible hairs are removed during one treatment.
So, if a person was tweezing daily, stopped tweezing for a week and during the first appointment all the visible hairs were removed - that would be first clearance. But…a daily tweezer who stopped tweezing for one week before the first appointment would need to have a second clearance a week later. Why? Because a person who tweezes daily has lots and lots of hair. This person would need weekly clearances for as long as two months, most likely. At some point, the length of time between clearances can be longer and the appointments become shorter… as Dee explains.
So, if a person has been shaving daily comes in and all the visible hair is removed the first time - that is first clearance. But…they would not need to come in next week, but could wait two weeks - possibly as long as 4 weeks - AND the time needed to clear them should be much shorter than that first clearance.
A person who tweezes should keep track of the number of minutes they spend tweezing and how often they tweeze. For example, if one tweezes for 5 minutes every day, then their first electrology treatment (with thermolysis) after one week would be about 35 minutes long. One week later, they need about 35 minutes and they should continue with weekly treatments for about 2 months, more or less.
Alli, your description of what you thought were accelerated vellus was very likely the newly emerging terminal hairs. As hair emerges from the skin it is soft and smaller in diameter - even if it is terminal hair. The frequent tweezing kept you from seeing how coarse it could grow. How long have you been tweezing the area? I’m just curious.
It seems like someone would have to not have much hair if they get clearance of all the hair present in just one treatment session. In a 45 min session using microflash the machine said she only got 36 hairs under my chin. I was hoping for more but she did spend some time on randoms on my cheeks and some of my sideburns so I’m not sure how long it will take for clearance of the chin and throat at this rate.
Barbara- I have been tweezing here and there for almost 10 yrs but I only started doing so under my chin 3 years ago and this past year I was tweezing more than in the past. Some of the hairs are coarse but some of the blonde ones are not that coarse or thick but they do get long and stick out at weird angles so they really bother me.What do accellerated vellus hairs look like?
She says she looks for the longest, thickest, and darkest hairs to zap. If the hairs come out of the skin soft and small in diameter- how will she know which hairs to get in the future before they get longer and have already passed the anagen stage?
Simply, she will know (if she can see) which hairs to take and which ones to leave. She cannot predict if those hairs she leaves behind will accelerate in the future. She shouldn’t be expected to.
What you have present today that looks obnoxious is what she should go after. Diameter and length of the hair present is what guides us. It doesn’t matter what color it is because blond, red, clear, gray, black, brown hair is obnoxious if it is thick and long or thin and long.
A tweezing client leaves us with many surprises. If you tweeze during electrolysis, you prolong treatments. I know you won’t do this, alli, because you are informed.
Here’s what I tell my clients to help them understand this high hurdle:
You have more hair than you think you have. If one has been tweezing 10 hairs everday on their chin, that’s 70 hairs per week on that one area. If a growth cycle is about 8 weeks, then you have about 560 hairs in that one area alone BECAUSE > 70 hairs per week times 8 weeks equals 560 hairs. So for about 2 months, you will see about 70 hairs come to the surface per week - ALL NEW HAIR - as it returns from previous tweezing sessions. Do you see why tweezing cases are so difficult and time consuming? Since you removed all evidence of a hair being there, we have to play a waiting game for the hair to come back.
These are important concepts to understand, so you don’t give up and lose what can be rightfully yours - PERMANENT HAIR REMOVAL. If you understand hair growth cycles, then you are half way to meeting your hair removal goal.
The point of my reply was that “clearance” means a different amount (percentage?) of hair - depending on whether the hair has been tweezed or shaved.
In my experience, 45 minutes of microflash should result in 200-300 hairs being removed. If you had 36 hairs removed in 45 minutes, then I would think that perhaps you had a slow thermolysis or blend being used since that’s less than one hair per minute.
If you are having regular treatments and you have been tweezing prior to beginning treatments, then the electrologist should be seeing hairs in anagen.
How many minutes per day or week were you spending on tweezing?
Accelerated vellus hairs are those hairs that have converted from vellus to “more than vellus but not terminal”. They can be the hairs that will later convert to terminal hairs - if they are stimulated by tweezing, hormones or medications. Accelerated vellus hairs that have been left to grow their life cycle will be longer than vellus (more than 1/4 inch??) and they might be slightly pigmented. I’ve seen accelerated vellus hairs grow as long as an inch, but they are smaller in diameter and lighter in color than terminal hair. Accelerated vellus hairs also have a deeper root (come from a deeper follicle) than vellus hair.
First Clearance at a minimum means the first time all visible hairs have been cleared in an area. At this point, one can keep the area clear if one schedules appointments with enough time and frequency to keep the area bare.
For others, First Clearance has been taken to mean once one has cleared all the hairs in one growth cycle. (which would of course take many clearances)
I am not sure that it is valuable to argue over which of these should be considered “correct”, but the thing that is important is that if one never clears all hairs in the area, one can not get to the point of working on keeping the area bare, let alone treating hairs before they are noticeable to the client.
I’m starting to panic a bit about the “accelerated vellus” hairs. Many of the thinner hairs on my face, even the ones I don’t concentrate as much on, are longer than 1/4 of an inch and some are blonde while others have pigment.Especially on the jawline and throat.If they hug my skin somewhat- I can at least manage not to obsess as much about them. Some on the sides of my neck are at least 1/2 inch, if not a little more. I thought they were just vellus hairs but does their length mean otherwise and there is a good chance they will turn terminal?
They could be on their way to turning terminal. Hair does not start as a thick hair for the most part. It has to go through stages from small to big, over time. This is not something to panic about because you have found a good electrologist who will permanently remove them. Just keep your sleeves rolled up and get the job done. The only path for you, if you truly want noticable hairs gone, is through electrolysis. Command yourself to relax and stay with the program. Put in as much time as you need up front and talk to your electrologist. She will reassure you along the way.
I know for sure that electrolysis is the only option for me and I will stick with it but I have so much hair already that bothers me that I don’t want to have to think about even more now… If I have to treat every hair longer than 1/4 inch on my face I will be treating almost my entire face and neck! I just came to grips with what I thought I had to deal with and that has been hard enough.
You mentioned “thick” hairs, Dee. If they are thin and 1/2 inch do I still need to treat them b/c if not now they will likely be terminal in the future? I, of course, am treating any long hair that sticks out but I wasn’t planning on getting those that follow the curvature of my skin. For example-some hairs look bad when I get up in the morning but after I wash my face they lay somewhat flat on my skin. Its the ones that constantly stick out that I focus on.
Treat only the hairs that are bothersome. When those are gone, you will probably term the smaller hairs as noticable. If a certain area bothers you a lot, then focus in on those hairs. Your face has to have some hair present or you will look unnatural. This is a process that of elimination. Just put in the time and if your electrologist has decent speed, you will see a big difference within 1-3 months. The rest of the time is spent on maintenance.
For hairs like you describe, vision and lighting is very important.
Thanks Dee- your words are reassuring. I guess I just need to come to grips with the fact that I have an even bigger problem than I thought. I have been so affected emotionally by my facial hair and obsessed so much that I’m just doing my best to not lose hope, as hopelessness is such a common feeling for me. I know I am on the right path now - and that is the most important thing. I am so proud of myself that I have not tweezed a single hair in over a month!! Honestly I never thought I could do it. Its been 10 years since I didn’t tweeze even a hair just on my chin.I feel like I should have some sort of anniversary party for not tweezing-it is that big of an accomplishment for me.At least I’m not making things worse anymore in the process of trying to remedy it…ugghhhhh…that is SO FRUSTRATING that tweezing does so much damage. I feel like I need to crusade and help the general public help themselves before they start tweezing. Most of the world outside of this forum just doesn’t know this stuff.(My mom assured me that her hairdresser says tweezing doesn’t affect hairs!) We need to rise up and campaign for the sake of women everywhere in every country! GO GET ELECTROLYSIS immediately and don’t wait!
I really think I’m beginning to see how important vision equipment is and I wish so badly my electrologist would upgrade that part b/c everything else is so great- she has an Apilus machine and she really does an awesome job on the dark hairs and never tugs- the treatment is comfortable. But I think she has a hard time seeing the long blonde or even just lighter pigmented hairs b/c I will point out specific hairs that are more than 1/2 inch long with the mirror and she still doesn’t get them. James had it pegged when he spoke of depth perception. It’s not her fault if she can’t see it. At this rate, though, I’m not getting much progress on my throat area, which is the most noticable for me, but not to her, and I can forget about gettting any smaller hairs that aren’t dark, ie: my chin b/c it has tons of lighter pigmented and blonde hairs but I shave it and she doesn’t get more than 5-10 hairs there each time.
I wonder why it is so hard to find electrologists with good vision equipment? Not one of the ppl I called in Ohio had it. I might start looking again just to compare, in the off chance I do find someone with such equipment. I just don’t want to trade such great skill (and companionship!!) and awesome-new Apilus machine for better vision equipment. There are so many factors that it is tuff to keep the faith but I am determined to not give up. “Si se puede!” My electrologist really is such a great person and I enjoy her company evey week.Thank you to all who answer Q’s on this forum for helping us keep that faith.
P.S. I think it was Barbara that asked on an earlier post how much I tweezed in the past…An average of 15 minutes daily on my cheeks, sideburns, chin and throat for 3 years and before that just my chin once a week for 10 years but there would be weekend days this past year that I would sit in front of a mirror near the sun coming in the window and stare at my face for 2 hours, tweezing intermitantly. I for sure was not tweezing straight that whole time but I would look at my face at every angle possible and cry and leave the mirror and come back in small fits of rage. I think that expains it most appropriately.
Alli, I think many electrologists think they see well enough and they don’t even know what they are missing by not having better vision wear. Better vision aid requires money. My glasses alone cost $1,800. I realized I needed to upgrade early on when my clients were telling me that I missed hair that they see sitting in their car. I can only say when one has better magnification, client satisfaction increases.
We know electrolysis works, however, it is frustrating to think that many practitioners do not set themselves up for success by having the best tools on hand. Now, could it be that your lady see’s the hair, but is following a certain plan for you and will eventually get to the lighter hairs that bother you. Please talk to her as much as you need to. She sounds very approachable. She’ll know how to get those long blondies, so don’t fret this early in the game.