Strategy for tight pores?

So today I spent 4 or so hours working oon a transgirl I have been helping out with her facial hair. Working on her chin I seem to have no issues whatsoever. But working on her upper lip ( which is what IHAD planned for today) seemed to be a non -starter. I was using f3 probes.Now looking at the hairs, they seem a little larger than what I put in my own lip, which I typically use an F3 probe for. However, no matter what I tried, I just could NOT get an insertion there. It was like the hairs were tightly wrapped by the follicle with not enough room to admit the probe.

Now I could swap out and start using an f2 probe there, but honestly I have some concerns that an f2 is too small a diameter. I’m wondering if next we try if a hot wet facecloth would make a difference/ Anyone else have any strategies for opening the follicles a bit? Stretching the skin didn’t seem to have any effect at all, I just couldn’t get in. I’ve had no issues on other parts of her face, just the upper lip.

Seana

Hi Seana, what kind of magnification do you use? Loupes can help with getting the angle of finer hair. Try to use the largest probe you can, have you had a chance to use Laurier, they do make probing easier and less intensity is needed.

A size 3 probe is way too small for these hairs, Seana. Mairi’s comments are spot on. This is a magnification problem, I do believe.

Mairi I’m using a 6 diopter loop in addidion to my 3x glasses. I can see the hairs fine, angle is fine, just every time I go to try to slide next to the hair into the follicle , all I’m doing is pushing against skin. I’ve made these same insertions dozens of times on myself with no issue.I have no problem inserting anywhere else on her face but there.
She has been on antiandrogens for over 15 years. Not sure if that has had an effect. I know she prior went to a pro, and they too commented that she seemed to have very tight follicles. I’m not sure when that was I assume several years ago.

F3 is roughly twice most of her upper lip’s hair size, though she has a sprinkling of larger hairs . Because her hair is light red, they stand out and make it look like she has maybe only 20 hairs on her upper lip, when in reality it’s much more than that.It was these larger ones I was initially going after. I may try the facecloth and see if that works next time.

And no, I havent used Laurier probes yet except some 15 year old ones that came in a batch of probes I bought from a retired electrologist ( picture the little plastic bozes and non-individually packaged ones) . They wouldnt be IBP probes. I have sterilized a few and used them on myself, but I wouldnt use them on anyone else.I do have to put in a probe order shortly and wont be seeing this girl again until january, so I may order a few of the IBP and try them out I keep hearing such good things about them, but I’ve preferred my ballet gold for various reasons.

Seana

Since you magnification and lighting and technique are all on target, the only thing I can think of from my own experience is:

Some people have very tiny pores along with shallow follicles - especially on the upper lip where hairs can be as shallow as only 1 mm.

Are you able to get a single hair out completely - even if you have to tweeeze it out - to see the depth in the follicle? Is it merely 1mm or deeper?

If the hair is indeed as shallow as is often the situation on the upperlip, I use the laurier Kelly IBP. You will have to determine the diameter of the probe based on the thickness of the hair. This has nothing to do with the length of the probe or the area of conductivity of the probe which is being addressed by using the laurier ibp kelly.

I hesitate to provide tips to nonprofessional electrologists and I have never complained about you. If it is in your power, I suggest you get into an electrology or skin care program as you seem to invest so much time and have a passion for the work.

You will indeed be able to help more people legally and you will most likely get lots of free work done on you by students and perhaps instructors also.

All the best

oh my goodness those IBP probes are pricey. $32 for a dozen from TES. The description seems to indicate they are still using the little plastic boxes too, which I know from the discussions here isnt accurate.And would be a non-starter,Ministry of Health specifically prohibits use of non-individually sterilized and packaged probes.Where are you all ordering them from if not from TES? Or should I be calling the TES head office directly.Their 1-800 number doesnt work here from canada, but I tthink if I look in y call logs from september I still have the number there somewhere for the local number.

Seana

Arlene you could be right on the insertion depth. There was once or twice I was in the follicle a bit, but I didnt consider the insertion depth to be anywhere near what it should be and pulled out. I’m really hesitant to pluck a hair, but I’ll give it a try and see what comes of it if the facecloth doesnt work.

I would LOVE to get into a program. Unfortunately I’m extremely low income. I have a severely autistic 6-year old son. It’s possible I could work part time now as for the first time ever this fall, he’s gone for 6-7 hours on weekdays. But up until now he was home for all but 3 hours, and there is no daycare that will accept him because they dont get funding for the sepcial needs workers they would need. Although I have the time, tuition is more of challenge. There are only two schools locally , one is a “medical esthicians” program and includes laser, and costs $8500. The other is a 6 month program for just electrolysis and it’s $3200. I did find a 3 day program in Markham for $900 (which is near toronto and I could stay with a friend for those three days) which DID included the needed certificate at the end, but even that is a challenge financially.That’s about, all told, what I live on with 3 kids for a month. I tried “crowdsourcing” for that through indiegogo, and didnt raise a dime.
There are some programs available through the canadian government for second career stuff, but I think it highly unlikely that a 3 day certificate course would qualify. It’s just for me I have an incredibly tight budget. As long as I am not charging for what I do, I sidestep the rules because I’m not doing anything professionally, so that’s where I’m at at the moment.I dont really lack for work on myself, I have someone learning along side me, my boyfriend ( a transguy) and he gets a few hours a week in on the places I cant reach like the neck. I study largely from the web, a couple books I’ve ordered, and much much more from advice from people here.

Seana

Any distributor who is still selling the Laurier in the old packaging has not yet replaced it with the individually pre-sterilized packaging. From my understanding, distributors did have an opportunity to replace these with the newer packets directly from the manufacturer. They would need to contact Laurier directly.

If your interest continues, I hope that one day you will be able to participate in an electrology program. It is very satisfying to help others who have also suffered from the distress of unwanted hair.

All the best.

Seana,

would the 3 day course formally allow You to start a business as an electrologist?

It provides a certificate, so yes. That is what is required in my province.That said it’s a VERY minimal number of hours. There wouldnt be a lot of recognition for it if I were to say, apply for an apprentiseship though I’ve some contact with a couple of certified electrologists here in ottawa who may be helpful with that. I also have to consider other costs ass they arent local, I’d have to travel into toronto and from there to markham daily for those three days, though that saves me the cost of a motel since I’ve a friend there I can crash with. I’ve seriously considered it…just for the certificate.

Seana

Well, here in Germany all we can have at all is such 3 days courses (and we luckily do not need any formal qualification at all - which gives people like You or me the possibility to start again from social nowhere). I actually had two of such 3 day courses before i dared to treat anyone else except myself, and it took a few years until quite recently i can earn a living from epilating. Most electrologists here have a similar education or even less (with the exception of those 4 collegues who have obtained a CPE and one having had a training in the netherlands).

Why do i write this: meanwhile it seems that i might be better than the average here in Germany - mostly by learning from the net, notably from the experienced colleagues here and permanently scrutinizing my work. And there is still a lot to learn.

Which means that a good program will help a lot in starting but most of it is learning on the job and from discussions with collegues.

Back to the original topic: the follicles on my upper lip were also pretty shallow - hairs for size 4 with a depth of about 2 mm (using a Ballet size 2 and 3 in order to fit into the pores). I did them with blend and similarly to you used a strong galvanic component. I would not do this anymore - mainly because a layer of pale and pretty hard scar (?) tissue developed in the deeper skin which is visible from outside (if You know what to look for…).

I am pretty sure that this has been caused by a fairly wide destruction pattern associated with that nonstandard blend approach that could have been avoided by using either blend in the face technique as described by Michael or with some faster approach like the 1 sec blend or a flash technique.

Bono describes TIDS: time, intensity, depth and size (of needle). I think in your case shallow depth insertion combined with small size needle (#2-3) produced hotter heating pattern?

Probably. However i had reduced RF in favour of galvanic. Meanwhile i would probably kill these hairs using a short multiplex pulse (or maybe synchro).

When working on myself and others, I’ve always started off conservative with intensities. Recently I’ve been trying to get my epilation time down though and that meant being a little bit more liberal with intensities.

For multiplex, the standard presets for “very course” hair set the intensities of galvanic somewhere in the vicinity of 0.64 MA . .For thermolysis it sets up 5 pulses of 0.70 seconds of , I believe 9% intensity. I’d have to unpack my machine to double check these but I believe it’s about right. I’ve yet to find those settings anywhere even close to effective. At that I have to use 2 full cycles, even on my current hairs which are relatively thinner regrowth . It’s rare I have a thicker hair to epilate on myself anymore.
So I’ve played with the intensities somewhat. Last week I did about a dozen hairs using 0.30 second pulses, and 35% intensity thermolysis, and dropped the treatment time from 11 seconds to 3. I still had to use two cycles, but the total was 6 seconds not 22. The hairs epilated beutifully but I was rewarded by a definite difference in sensation into the next day, almost like a pin was in my skin. And by a dozen or so neat scabs the next day. It was enough to tell me that 35% , was apparently too much.
Now the person I was working on this week, is a different case. She’s had almost no clearance prior, and no laser. Instead of the multitude of thinner hairs I had to deal with on myself, hers is almost completely large thick terminal hairs.And mostly, very DEEP. I had previously upped the galvanic to 0.70 MA on her and left the rest of the cycle alone. Her hairs have some of the thickest roots I’ve seen to date, and oddly bits of the sheath maintain the same reddish hue the hair has. The combination of really deep roots (easily 1/4 inch deep) and wide roots has meant more treatment energy. I had previously increased galvanic to 0.70 MA for the duration of the 1 second cycle, and at that I was still needing 2 - 2 1/2 or 3 cycles per hair. Way too much time.
This last time I treated her I increased galvanic to 0.80 MA and thermolysis from 9% to 20% in the hopes of bringing down treatment time.I also switched to omniblend ( constant non-pulsed blend for you non-apilus readers) . It was only partially successful, I could get away with 2 cycles but I was still getting slightly more resistance than I usually like to have. This stayed that way until I switched to a treat and wait strategy, I was treating little groups of five hairs before I took them out, the extra time gave the galvanic produced lye more time to do it’s work, which gave me easier withdrawls with little to no tugging. She hasnt gotten back to me on whether this has had major effect on skin reaction from the higher intensities. I dont think on her it is going to be horribly practical to get under 20 seconds per hair epilation time.I will try some larger probes to see if that has much effect either way but wont be treating her again until after christmas.

As for the 3 day course, I’m honestly not thinking that in the 18 or so hours they have available I’m going to see much more than a quicky chairside instruction. The general concensus of all I’ve spoken to, is that a course with a certificate is all that is required to practise legally. There doesnt seem to be any regulation on course length, content or number of practise hours, that part is relatively irrelavant. Ministry of health does have a document on infection control guidelines. Now this is not true province wide. Toronto area has just introduced something called the “bodysafe program” aimed at electrologists and tattoo parlours and other PSS’s . Information on bodysafe is found here:


There’s licensing involved ( relatively expensive too $320 for the first year) but thankfully all of this only applies to the Greater Toronto Area.The inspection guidelines closely mimick what is already in place by the ontario ministry of health. From what I’ve read it seems mostly aimed at ensuring they are adequately inspected. I’ve yet to find ANYWHERE that states that even a certificate is required to perform electrolysis( and it may not be) but seems to be the general concensus of everyone I’ve ever spoken to in electrology. The closest information I’ve been able to find in the past was that on COPE website:
http://www.electrolysis.ca/e_training.asp
Ottawa too has looked into health programs like Toronto’s Bodysafe program. They are now aiming to inspect all electrolysis premesis withing 2013. The issue is a) they have no licensing and arent aware of any premises unless a complaint is lodged b) there are no laws in place to institute fines and c) they dont seem to have enough resources to actually perform the insepctions. For the moment, the only option they have to correct deficiencies, is to make an attempt to educate the operator on effective practices based on Ontario Ministry of health GUIDLINES ( note I didnt say regulations) found here:
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/oph_standards/docs/pssp_2008.pdf
Anyway that’s pretty much what we have, a whole lot of nothing, a vague notion by practitioners that a certificate is required( which actually seems good to have if there were guidelines in place for covered topics like infection control, number of hours etc) , no governing body, and zero on enforcement or regulations.So effectively I can call myself an electrologist now and start taking paying clients if I REALLY wanted to. But without even a attempt at formal instruction, to get the things I probably missed in self learning, it just isnt the wisest of notions.

Seana

Oh something that I remembered now is that Bono also discusses a weird phenomena when too low HF settings cause energy to start from the middle of the needle and not from the bottom. So when energy starts rising from the middle it quickly rises up to upper dermis and even the low intensity energy can cause skin damage if treatment left for X amount of time. I’m not sure if this only applies to “old school” manual HF or also applies to modern epilators that use “Flash” high intensities HF. Solution is to use proper blend formulas.

Michael doesnt use flash. All his work is essentially the same as our omniblend, that is non-pulsed constant signal on both the GV and HF .I happen to know this, because I tried questioning him on some intensities, and he pretty much had no idea what i was doing because he doesnt work that way.It’s one of the reasons I tried swapping to Omniblend, because I didnt have to deal with the higher intensity HF to get the same effect.He’s living proof that you dont need a high end computerized epilator with fancy functions to do this job.

One thing I proved when using the higher intensities of HF at 35% intensities. When using multiplex you can feel the pulse, along with hear it from the machine beep. If strong enough on a shallow insertion this is enough to make muscles twitch or for the probe to “jump” out of the follicle. But here’s what I found most telling when I used stronger intensities.I had used my favorite gold plated ballet probes. When I was epilating at the higher HF for my test I could SEE whitening of the surface skin even on deeper insertions , that occurred to the “beat” of the HF pulse. This is absolute evidence that at least a portion of the higher intensity HF is making it to the upper dermis.

Seana