Stay patient or change electrologists (pics available)

Hair Removal Information Sources Electrolysis manufacturers
#1

Hi, everyone. I’m new and I was wondering if I could get some expert insight into my situation.

Background

I’m a naturally hirsute 24 year old woman who has always had hair on my neck, face and clavicle area. My virgin hair was dark, not too thick or thin on my face and neck, but it was clearly visible.

3 years ago, I reached the end of my course of laser hair removal on both face and body. Unfortunately, I got paradoxical hair growth on my chin and neck area. The hair became thick and terminal with bigger follicle bulbs if you extracted them.

This is what if I started with (pre-electrolysis but post-laser). Bear in mind, during this time I would thread the area as my main form of hair removal around every 1-2 weeks.

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I eventually got fed up of threading weekly and opted for electrolysis.

Electrolysis journey

Started thermolysis in mid July 2022.

The first week, I took out 4 hours (I.e. 2 hours on two days back to back) to clear the area.

Since the initial clearing, I’ve had regular weekly sessions that I have been attending for 1.5 hours each.

The total amount of treatment time I have had is 19 hours.

The hair does grow back in a week and I feel like I’m not seeing any real change, even a little.

Here is what it looks like at the end of the week before my sessions (this picture was taken roughly 14 hours into my treatments):

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At the end of sessions, I get inflamed skin which does well to heal on its own.

Electrolysis is very painful for me so I use a numbing cream prior to sessions.

Due to a family health emergency, I’ve had to travel abroad for a month early October 2022 for which I am not receiving any electrolysis treatment.

My electrologist told me not to thread, pluck, wax or shave. She said I could use a depilatory cream or bleach.

I decided to bleach the hair two weeks in because the amount of hair that grew was thick and extremely noticeable. When I saw this and compared to my beginning photo, I saw no difference, even fractionally.

The hair felt stubbly and itchy so I decided to Nair it for now.

My electrologist

I also have a few of positives and negatives about my electrologist that I would like to share to see if it’s worth changing.

Positive:

*Empathetic to my hair situation

  • Works very quickly. She can get a full clearance pretty much each session that I have.
  • I dont FEEL any plucking or tugging sensation and can see the bulb of the hair.

Negatives

  • Doesn’t wear gloves but she does wash her hands rigorously and is otherwise clean.
  • Her equipment seems to be from the 80s. I don’t know if it’s necessarily a bad thing. It’s a Fisher type machine.
  • She believes that shaving makes hair actually thicker, where dermatologists and science would tell you otherwise. Yet, she thinks depilatory creams are ok between sessions.
  • She does pluck and tug at ingrown hairs only.
  • She doesn’t seem to be up to date with electrolysis methods and machines. She’s been practising for 20+ years. I ask her questions about the type of thermolysis she uses but she doesn’t have an answer.

I want to also add that I have no hormonal issues or diseases. I am healthy.

Should I stick with it or change electrologists?

Should I have seen some results after 19 hours?

I feel exhausted and very down about this situation so any input is welcome.

Thank you.

#2

Hello Welcome in the Forum.

Should I have seen some results after 19 hours?

Answer : Hours are Meaningless /Nonsense. Even not really Helpful .
I mean as Costumer , i want to know . How much Clearance , you need to see for: 1. First Resultst, like its thinning out, i mean the Hairs. And how Much time /apointments , you will need to be done .

I mean if you get 19 Hours on Facial Hairs for example, buit its just 1 Clearance ( 1 time on all areas of the facial area). Than are 19 Hours , just the begin.And you dont see any real results.Because after 1 Session on facial Area , if you wait 4 weeks you look kinda , the same like before.

Also Electrologists are different Fast/Slow. I mean you could read anywhere , for facial Hairs (as example) , they need Average 120 Hours (as example). And the one is fast . And than you find a Electrologist in your near , you expect kinda same time/Hours) And because the electrologist is 50 % Slower or more . You end by 160-240 hours.

Also To be Honest /Fair : Hours doesnt mean , that it is Real treatment time. I mean if you take for example 1 Hour . You need move your Body , because the electrologist cant reach the area , without it. Or you must sneeze, or if your electrologist have , a employer who work there. And ask there something. Some time will left too. its not this accurate. It exist some Machines (Digital one) . It count everytime like by Thermolysis 3 Seconds and you can add there, you need to tweeze the hair +2 Seconds (average). If the one, dont work , it dont add/calculate the real treatmenttime.

Its better you tell how much *Clearance on Area X/Y * you Had?. I mean how much times they cleared.
And After 1-2-3-4-5 Clearance , at least my experience on my Upperlip you dont see Real Results.

My Feeling tell me , even if she do it right ( i guess ) you should go to other one. But with the machine thats look more old /is more old , doesnt matter . The technique doesnt changed.

It exist so much Methods of Electrolysis
Flash is Faster than Thermolysis but Worse than Thermolysis , because that the Hair growth back , the risc is much Higher.
Thermolysis , but you know
Blend , but its Slower 6 Seconds each Hair, but very good.
Galvanic , but in your case it make no sense to use it . At least no Professional would use it, for this Area . Only if your hairs are very less , like in the end if you have <25-50 hairs , could be a option. Because the it more successful than themolysis.
Even my Machine , i have from EPIGOLD can do : Thermolysis +Blend. But its very uncommon.

From the Logic ,because Thermolyisis is fastest + 40-60% Sucess rate to destroy hair. At least Any Electrolygist should use it ,within the Hairs are Much thinned out. But i guess MINIMUM 8-9 Months will be gone than. If its thinned out and the hairs are really less , that thermolsis is not more worth. The electrologist could change to Galvanic or Blend.

I mean You started July 2022 , So 3 Months are gone. To be Done (if you have no PCOS) you can expect kinda 1 Year. You could check videos from Electrolysis like facial hairs . it exist some Electrolgist /youtuber. Where you see how it change with time , i mean the hairs.

But i can tell you Should see Results MINIMUM After 5-6 Months (5-6 Sessions). You need still than Sessions, Months more. But it will be better.

Also if its too Painful for you and the Electrologist , dont use allready low settings. You can ask the one , make the settings lower. But you will have any kind of Pain (low -much- fine one).

#3

You’ve been threading the hair for three years which creates issues like distorted follicles that complicates electrolysis. Hopefully you did stop all threading and plucking as that can delay/disrupt hair growth cycles. You’re not going to see major visual changes after a couple clearances because new hairs from resting phase keeps growing in and it gives an impression that no progress is being made. Twenty hour clearance is not out of the ordinary. You have to stick with the schedule your electrologist wants and in 4-6 month you should be seeing visual progress. If you’re not comfortable with your electrologist and doubt their skills and knowledge, try another one.

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#4

Thanks for the response.

Please correct me if I am wrong but this is what I understand from the word ‘clearance’ through reading pages on Hairtell. Clearance is when all the visible hairs have been treated in a given area. That is to say, the area has been cleared.

If this is the case, I got my first clearance after 4 hours and then I get full clearances roughly every week. She manages to get all the visible hairs each week and I leave the clinic as if I had no hair there to begin with. However, it does grow back within a week.

According to what I’ve said above, then I have had roughly 8 clearances.

The area I get treated is my neck and chin.

#5

Yes, all forms of hair removal were stopped since I started electrolysis.

I don’t think I’m understanding what is meant by clearance. Is it when all the visible has been treated? If that’s so, I got my first clearance (getting rid of all the hair) in 4 hours and then we maintain each week for 1.5 hours. In those sessions, she still manages to clear all the visible hair- thus, achieving clearances each session.

Does this sound right?

#6

Yes you are right.

A Clearence means. For Example you had on Upperlip Hairs and its cleared one time in let say 2 Hours . Its 1 Clearance.

But you do , too much Apointments. With 1 Apointment each 4 Weeks you should be fine.Some Electrolgysist say , you should go first , few Months 2 x The Month, its also fine. But 4x the Month , is too much. I mean you can go 4x the month , if the Hairs bother you a lot. But it dont will make , the Hairremoval faster. I mean , that they go thin out/go away.

Because the Face Hairs have Haircycles and they grow back all 4 Weeks arround. If the Electrologist couldnt treat all Hairs , in 1 Sessions, than would make also more than 2 Sessions sense. But in your case , it make no sense. I mean you can go also also every week, but just few Hairs growed than back, not all. So you have too go much times more to your Electrologist. I readed a lot *trans peoples * make it, like this. But Usual all 4 Weeks are fine , even you could go all 6 or all 10. But you need to finish anyway arround 1 Year (normaly).

If you would do make Laser Hairremoval, you would also go there all 4 weeks for make a Apointment. For Body Hairs all 6 weeks.

But my feeling , how i sayed search a other one.

You can check this video, it explain it very well with hairgrowth cycles + electrrolysis : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdN7mvzqHOY&t=3s

In Theory /Theoreitcal , if you would go all 10 Weeks = 2 1 /2 Months .
Are 5-6 Sessions enough , each 2 1/2 month than youa re done in 1 Year / 1 Year +2 monhs (arround).

But that expect you treatr ALL Hairs in 1 Apointment… by full facial hairs… like beard …or arms…or legs hairs. It dont work because in 1 day even a lot of hours , you will not have your first clearance done…or second.

#7

Oh boy. I’m sorry that the blind are somewhat leading the blind, for your case, so I’m going to de-cloak for a minute to explain some concepts that relate to your hair growth. I think it will help you to understand the electrolysis process better and better decipher your own progress.

Lets start with " What is a clearance" because its clear that you, and at least some of the people trying to help you , do not understand what is mean by a “clearance”. A clearance is the treatment and removal of ALL HAIR that has grown, or will grow, during a cycle of hair growth… A cycle of hair growth, is defined as the period of time that it takes a hair follicle to complete one cycle, that is to produce an anagen hair, have that hair follicle go into catagen, telogen, exogen, and then produce a new anagen hair. On average, once cycle of hair growth is 3-5 months on average, and you would have to treat ( and hopefully destroy) all hair that both has grown, and will grow, during that 3-5 month time frame.
So lets look at some of the things that can and will affect whether we are accomplishing this lofty goal.

  1. Paradoxal hypertrichosis, from laser hair stimulation, can greatly and drastically increase the scale of the job.
  2. Hormonal influence, from conditions that increase androgens in the blood steam, such conditions include Poly cystic Ovarian Syndrome, cushings disease, and thyroid disorder.
    3 Genetic predisposition to hair grown through your background heritage, This is especially common in those of arabic, pakistani, and indian descent. This will greatly increase the "pool " of hair that must be destroyed.
    4 Plucking, waxing and threading . These serve to damage the dermal papillae that is a finger like projection into the base on an ANAGEN hair… It also prevents us from treating that hair until it returns as a new anagen hair, some months in the future. This projection feeds blood which is converted to keratin, which is what the hair is composed of. A better blood supply increases growth , and when this hair is threaded or plucked, we cause damage to the deramal papillae which causes it to rebuild itself, inplementing denser capillary loops which cause that hair to have stronger growth for all future cycles.This has the capability of causing vellus hair that would not bother anyone, to become courser thicker hair, just the same as paradoxal stimulation or hormonal influence.
    5 The failure to remove and destroy ALL THE HAIR regardless of what cycle of growth the hair is in at the time. This is a problem when you have either shaved, or used a depilatory cream ( which is in the end just chemical shaving) because catagen and telogen hairs will not grow out once shaved, they have separated from the dermal Papillae and no longer have a blood supply feeding blood and causing growth to these hairs. This has the effect of making these hairs untreatable within that cycle of growth, because we may not be able to determine the direction of growth, or insert into the hair, nor remove the hair once treated untill that hair has gone through another cycle of growth and comes back as an anagen hair. So if you have been using delapatory cream, you have delayed the treatment of those catagen and telogen hairs until the next cycle of growth ( another 3-5 months down the line)

When I look at you case, we have the “perfect storm” of hair growth. . You’'ve been threading, experienced paradoxal hypertrichosis, are of an ethnic descent that makes such growth obvvious and problematic and more wide spread, and you’ve been engaging in chemical shaving, delaying the treatment of a large portion of the growing hair for one full cycle of growth. It’s not known that you have a condition that increaases androgens such as PCOS, but from looking at the existing growth, I do think this is likely.

It ALWAYS takes at LEAST 3 cycles of growth to completely clear an area. of all hair. This includes that it is necessary to treat ALL HAIR that has grown, or will grow, in each 3-5 month period. The failure to accomplish this, will mean that we will need to continue treatments, for a 4th, 5’th 6th, or even more cycles of growth extending treatment potentially by years.
When I hear your description of your electrologists performance, it becomes clear to me that for the most part, she is doing it right! She’s treating all hairs treated with sufficient energy to destroy the hair and obtain a smooth release of the hair. She is honestly telling you to let the hair grow, so she can treat all the hair, regardless of it’s place in that cycle of growth. You’ve a tough road ahead, and it is not going to be easy, but in so doing you will effect permanent removal. You will however need to be patient, and leave the friggen hairs alone! Get sufficient treatment to clear all the hair with each successive treatment, and to eliminate all hair within each 3-5 month period. Do not pluck, shave, wax or thread anything! Do this and you will see success. Fail to do this, and you will not accomplish your goal, or will take much longer ( potentially many years) to do so.
So from your aspect, what is it going to take? Stop all threading. HAve your electrologist target all hair with every treatment, regardless of their place in the cycle of growth ( catagen and telogen hairs can be destroyed too!!!) or in how significant the hair initially appears. This Means YES she needs to be treating all lighter and seemingly vellus hair. Often these are just the tip of a new anagen hair, and when you treat them, you find they have coarse dark thick problematic hairs at the root. You need to treat ALL THE HAIR, and destroy all the hair in each 3-5 month period.

Folks, I’m on hiatis for several months. I’m returning some sanity to my life and my practise, and dealing with a number of serious medical issues for my family members. I’m not going to be around for several months. . Try to not beat each other up while I’m gone.

Seana

#8

i know that hairs grows in different cycles.
Even if you clear 1 Area completly. There are Proparly some hairs under the skin, and will grow again in few days. Or first one proparly allready some hours after treartment.

Im just saying it exist too much variables , with treatment time.
I mean you need Proparly for1 with full facial hairs , like with cheeks…throat…upperlip…underlip …chin and so far 120 Hours arround average.

If anyone have no throat hairs you need less.

If anyone have no cheeks hairs or very less…you need even less.

Even Electrologists are different fast/slow, but you know it.
Same if you need now 120 hours for full facial hairs, who say in 10-20 years you need not longer than that?. Because age.But we have all than some problems with bones… muscles…eyes and so far.But thats normal.This Problems , get /have everyone one the world , earlier or later.

#9

In general the length of a cycle or growth will vary from body part to body part. If you are talking about the average cycle length, this will differ depending on whether you are talking about an arm leg , back, groin, chip, lip or cheek each of these areas . It might be as little as 3 months for an arm, and as much as 6 months or more for a chin. When doing electrolysis, we can derive very good estimates of the length of an average growth cycle .We do this through the notation of the reduction from each successive growth cycle. In an ideal world, no one shaves waxes or threads any hair on the face, and we can give even better estimates when all of the hair is in situe ( in place) . But thisrarely happens, the client is bothered by the hair so they pluck or shave it to remove it from view and this solves the "problem " for them if only temporarily. when doing a trans beard removal for example, I know that one of the first places that willsee success is the cheeks. We dont see the result of our treatment for one full hair growth cycle. If we are destroying a hair we dont know that we have been successful, until one full hair growth cycle has passed ( by noting the reduction in hairs not returning) . Thus I can tell you that the average hair growth cycle is lower for the cheeks, that it would be for the chin for example. I can continue to see chin hairs returning long after all the cheeks are gone. This is not a shortcoming of the electrologist.So cheek hairs disappear before upper lip or chin. But the percentage of the hair we are able to treat, is directly affected by what the client is doing to the hair in between. If they are shaving or plucking the hairs, then we know there is a significant percentage of the hairs that we are never going to get to treat. These missed opportunities, affect over how many cycles of growth we must do electrolysis And this can be an even shorter period for most body areas. One area that likes to “hang on” for a while is along the sides of the bottom neck. Often people have hair here that somehow refuses to die. Really, what is happening is this area has very long cycles of growth .

The only way you are going to learn about the length of cycles of growth, is to study electrology and practice.

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