Soprano XL (again) - any firsthand experiences?

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

I have been going through the forum’s search function, but many of the posts that I see about this machine seem to either be discussing the theoretical performance of the machine, or are from people who have “just had a treatment” so they really can’t provide any important feedback.

From past research I had tried to decide between a LightSheer diode and GentleLase alexandrite. When reading up on it, the shorter wavelength Alexandrite seemed to provide the best absorption into melanin along with best skin penetration/minimal skin heat dissapation. However, the diode lasers seemed to perform almost as well in the medical reports that I read. For light skin/dark hair, both were far ahead of ruby lasers or Yags.

That being said, does anybody have any experience comparing between the LightSheer and the Soprano XL? Is the Soprano XL a good diode laser? Does this “in-motion” technique of constantly re-zapping the same area with lower power zaps work as well as a single, powerful zap? Technically, I don’t see how it could - but I’m looking for people’s experience rather than my conjecture.

And for those who have experience between diodes and alexandrites, did you notice enough of a difference to pick one over the other. If yes, how so?

I have located one Soprano XL user in my area, and am considering switching systems if it can reduce the pain from what I experienced during my GentleLase treatment. However the lack of long-term results on the Soprano has me concerned. Does anybody have any experience to share?

Thanks

#2

Soprano is relatively new, so there is no data and no real longterm evidence of permanent reduction of hair since it hasn’t been long enough.

However, regardless, it’s a diode. It’s not as powerful as an alex no matter what settings you set. The pulse width doesn’t go as low and the wavelength is higher to begin with.

As I mentioned in other threads, if your only concern is pain, you should use a numbing cream, not look to switch to a less effective laser. After all, you’re paying for results.

Most studies published don’t actually use very effective settings. They’re always too conservative. And based on studies, Ruby lasers are actually most poweful and effective. The problem is that they are too powerful for most skin types and can only be used on very pale skin safely, which is why they’re not being made anymore.

#3

I suppose it’s the same for any newer technology - very little feedback on long term results. Although I am a little suspicious: if the technique of delivering multiple bursts of lower energy to gradually heat the folicle until destruction really worked, why wouldn’t every other laser manufacturer be coming out with a painless laser system?

As for the diode vs alex thing … I’ve gone through a number of the links on this forum to medical and scientific journals that provided results of testing with different wavelengths of lasers and efficacy. It really seemed that diode came very close to alex in terms of absorption into melanin and disapation into skin. I see what you’re saying about the tests using non-optimized settings, but then I’m only at 14J or 16J in my treatments, so I’m not really getting best bang-for-buck on the system either.

There seems to be a lot of positive feedback for the Lightsheer diode system. So if the Soprano is a good diode laser, then I could see it providing results close to that of an alexandrite. But again, this is just my conjecture, and I’ve found nobody sharing their long term experience with it (and it’s really annoying to continually find various websites where people blog about how great it is, although they’ve only had one treatment and it was 3 weeks prior. That really doesn’t help at all)

Right now I’m thinking that I might go with Soprano XL while the hair is still very course and dense, then maybe switch back to GentleLase once the hair is sparse and lighter - should be less painful by that time, and alex should work better o nthat type of hair than diode.

Still have to try out a test patch and see how it goes.

#4

My problem with it is that there is no good explanation of why there is little pain. If the hair is absorbing the heat and is being killed, it should hurt. On other machines, it generally doesn’t hurt if the settings are too low or compression is not being used (often necessary with diodes - it’s a more difficult to use machine). So that worries me with this one. Also, I haven’t seen posts from people using these machine who actually experience shedding.

#5

I’m completely biased to GentleLASE now (all thanks to LAGirl!!!). I’ve only done one session on my under arms, but the area after the treatment was so much better than with IPL, and in just over a week almost all the hair fell out, I have maybe 5% left, but I attribute that to using only 16J for my first treatment, but hair falls out every day. Too early to tell if effective but super happy with the results so far.

Anyway back to my point of posting. If doing multiple bursts at low energy worked, then wouldn’t that mean home devices like Silk’n and Tria would do the same if you just fired it 10 times in the same spot? Even these devices use low power hurt, so it’s strange a pro machine wouldn’t. I’m not promoting either, if you want results you have to go pro, so I’m not suggesting someone fires Silk’n 10 times. It’s just like working out, no pain no gain. My concern with it as well would be that when I did own Silk’n, some areas of my body like my hands still don’t have hair growing back, or I get the odd one, and I haven’t used Silk’n in 2 months in that area. I know it’s not permanent, but the concern is whether the Soprano is similar, what happens a year after you stop treatment. Hard to say! Had I not found this forum I probably would have gone for any type of laser or kept using IPL, but now I’m stuck up, it’s GentleLASE or nothing :stuck_out_tongue:

#6

I love it when people say that, “no pain no gain.”

When i first saw the Soprano XL, the CEO of Alma Lasers explained there that people always tell him, no pain no gain. He tells them no pain, i gain.
2 and a half years later and they are doing very well. I also know that in those 2 and a half years, those machines are so successful that the people who own them treat them like a loved one.

#7

Lee, it doesn’t matter how many times you hit something if if never penetrates deep enough or never applies enough heat for the hair to be damaged.

#8

Lee - Home systems and pro systems cannot be compared. Those aren’t even lasers, more like low power flashlamps.

As for the “GentleLase or nothing” - why? I appreciate LAGirl’s contributions and opinion, but if you’re going to echo them - what are you basing it on? Why GentleLase vs other Alexandrites on the market? Why Alexandrite over Diode? How can you report on GentleLase’s efficacy after a single treatment? Why does “no pain no gain” apply to laser hair treatment - technological advances and consumer demand will eventually lead to easier, cheaper, less painful tools (we’ve seen this continually, from the introduction of laser in the first place, to the release of newer generation lasers)… I’m trying to determine if the Soprano XL is one such advancement, or if it just has a clever marketing team behind it.

LAGirl - yes, I have the exact same concern about the Soprano. The only way I can rationalize it is: If a high percentage of the energy delivered is absorbed into the melanin, and a low percentage is absorbed by the skin, then if you hit it with one powerful blast, the amount absorbed into the skin could still be enough to inflame the skin and cause pain. However if you hit it multiple times with low power, the dark folicle may retain the heat energy from each hit, gradually reaching a temperature (45 celcius) capable of the necessary tissue damage to the follicle, while the energy disapated into the skin may not reach a level to inflame it or cause pain (since white skin would not retain heat to the same extent as dark melanin).

That is pure 100% conjecture. And I’m not so sure that it is a realistic approximation of what is happening, or that it even makes biological sense. But it’s the only way I can think of that this machine could work, and the original press release from the company gives vague hints in this direction.

The different shedding behavior is also a matter of concern. I really don’t understand that.

But on the other hand (like odi has said) - after 2.5 years on the market, if it didn’t produce lasting results, I would imagine that there would be a fair number of negative blogs or reports - and I’m finding almost nothing on google. People seem to stay quiet when things work fine and vocalise when things don’t - so that kinda tell me the machine may be legit.

So confusing. And it seems like the old posts I have found on this forum regarding it had a few people who were in the process of using it and were going to “report back” … but never did. So frustrating.

#9

Sorry for the delay in replying to this, but you have like 10 different posts on here so was hard to find this one.

I’m not saying lasers can compare to home systems, I hate home systems from first hand experience. My point was that home systems still do deliver heat to the folicle. How much I don’t know but I was just saying if the Soprano does low heat but multiple times in the same spot, then you would think home systems could be more effective doing them multiple times in the same spot.

I have nothing against the Soprano, I checked it out before doing GentleLASE as well. I didn’t realize until I saw your post that it does multiple low bursts, so that wasn’t why I didn’t chose it. Also to clarify, I’m not GentleLASE only, I mean any type of Alex. As for Diode I have no experience with them but from reading these forums, the consensus sounds that alex is much more effective.

Obviously I can’t tell after one session how effective it is, but I can compare it to previous sessions I’ve done with IPL. My point is that when I did IPL, you get covered in gel, then they do the treatment which hurts a bit, not unbearable but enough that they give you squeeze balls to hold in your hands. Then immediately after they have to put ice on you, and for about 5 hours after, every hair folicle that was zapped stays red so it looks like you have some sort of rash. Then after a week or so the hair starts to shed, but I never noticed complete shedding, I still would have to shave the area all the time until the next session. Now after 4 sessions I don’t have to shave the area anymore at all.

When I went for my GentleLASE under my arms, she simply wiped it down with an alcohol or cleaning agent first, no gels. Then each shot of the laser felt a bit less painful than the IPL did. When it was done I had NO redness or irritation. After a week the hair was all growing back which was upsetting, but then about 1.5 weeks after the session, it all would fall out in clumps which shows it’s obviously having an effect. That was over a week ago, now my under arms are in the totally smooth stage. So obviously I can’t report on how effective it is as a whole treatment, but I’m reporting how effective it is on a per session basis. The other benefit I find of GentleLASE is that it doesn’t touch your skin, like a Diode or IPL. I’m not sure how Soprano works, but to me since it doesn’t touch, it should be able to get into harder to reach areas, like fingers, in between your pecs, or anywhere there’s a bone that rounds out like your knee.

#10

Well - I had a test spot done with the Soprano XL.

Now, I will preface this with a few key points:

  1. I’m not sure of the experience level of the young girl who treated me. It was a waxing-oriented spa, and when I began asking complicated questions about the machine, energy delivery, absorption into melanim etc, she had a deer-in-the-headlights look, before fumbling through some answers.

  2. After assessing my skin type, she said that she would use a 10J fluence to deliver a total of 6 to 8 KJ total energy to the area. I asked how she would know when she had done enough passes and how she would control her motion to keep energy distribution even. She replied that the machine displays the number of KJ delivered so she can see the number as she is treating me (I checked and verified the amount she used on me). As for how this energy gets distributed, she just said that she keeps moving the wand.

  3. I react stongly to laser (ie. I’m extremely hairy and have sensitive skin, so I feel a lot of pain during treatment).

  4. The test patch was on the inside of the leg, just above the ankle. This is a sensitive spot to get treated.

  5. As opposed to the standard tinted-lab-glasses that I usually get, she gave me swimmers goggles that were opaque green, so I couldn’t see what she was doing. I tried to peek a few times, but couldn’t see much.

The treatment began - the first few zaps were okay, but the pain quickly escalated. I began counting in my head, and she seemed to go for about 45 seconds. The pain was intense and I was very close to telling her to stop. Luckily she did stop - after only delivering 3.6KJ of total energy. Dunno why she stopped there - maybe she noticed my clenched fist with white knuckles. It felt like hundreds of burning hot needles shooting into my skin continously.

For several hours afterwards, my skin was sore and felt mildy sunburned. This feeling lasted for about a day.

The next day, I had a full leg treatment with GentleLase set on 16J. I had to use Emla for most of it (used about 45 grams worth), but intentionally left that area on the other leg clear so that I could compare the sensation with the Soprano XL.

The GentleLase hurt less.

Now, the GentleLase still hurt considerably. But it ended quickly - maybe 20 zaps … not 45 seconds of continuous painful zapping. And each zap of the GentleLase was only a little bit more painful than each of the hundred or so zaps that the Soprano delivered.

I don’t want this to come out as a condemnation of the Soprano XL. It seems that the performance of this machine may rely more heavily on technician ability than the GentleLase, and this girl may have done something wrong.

But it did make my mind up, and I’ve continued treatment using the GentleLase. I’ll update my Treatment log with current results.

I’ll also try to track whether the test area with the Soprano XL sheds equally with the remainder of the GentleLase treated leg between now and my second treatment.

#11

I just want to add a quick comment to my above post.

During my GentleLase treatment, the machine was briefly (accidentally) turned down to 12J during treatment of one of my calf areas. I no had Emla cream on this area, but noticed that the laser barely hurt at all (as opposed to the other calf which was very painful). It’s when I mentioned this that she noticed the setting error, and we went back up to 16J and a whole lot of pain.

So perhaps if the setting on the Soprano had been lower, it would have been a nice pain-free “massage” experience.

#12

Hey Monkeyman, how are your sessions going? Just curious how your sopranoxl test patch ended up compared to the gentlelase. Was shedding and what not the same? I only ask because it seems like there’s really good pricing on soprano xl here in Toronto versus gentlelase which I love, so just considering trying it out.

I’m so bad, I’m like the opposite of most people on here trying to figure out which laser is best and do test patches. I’m like sure lets try that one fire away haha.

#13

IT IS amazing to me to see so many people complain about results and being “cheated” by laser wielders who went out of business. I wonder how many ecstatic patients who wrote about their wonderful experience only to find out later that the hair all grew back and they were cheated. Good laser peopls know in advance what to expect even though it may not always turn out to have a desirable ending.

#14

Numerous lasers and other hair removal treatment devices are manufactured in other countries NOT USA,. They may be illegal. Contact the CUSTOMS department to find out. They may be illegal in the country and/or illegal to use for not meeting USA standards and/or not being registered and approved with FDA.

#15

A powerful laser, in the hands of skilled laser specialist, working on a compliant consumer, who has the hair and skin characteristics to achieve a high percentage of permanent hair reduction that is stable over time, DO receive results that make them very, very happy. They don’t feel cheated.

Dee

#16

once again, lefty, you don’t know what you’re talking about or are having problems with reading comprehension. the thread you’re posting in for example doesn’t say anything about supposed issues you propose “many” experience (false statement).

#17

Thank you for reporting on this one! I have used Gentlelase very successfully, but was considering a Soprano groupon deal… I think I need to stick with my tried and true Alexandrite. Keep on updating, inquiring minds definitely are interested.