Some help with Gentlelase settings

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
1

Since this is my first post on Hairtell, I’ll start off with a simple hello. Now that I’ve taken care of that formality, I have a couple of questions for the knowledgeable community here at Hairtell.

I am a Southeast Asian man and from what I can tell, I fall somewhere between type III and IV skin type. I would say that my complexion is fair, not pale but on the light side for an Asian. I can get pretty tanned, rarely burn, if I’m out in the sun but I have avoided the sun as much as possible since I started my treatment. I would say my face is a little darker now then it is in the winter time due to the incidental sun I have gotten. My hair is black and ranges between fine and coarse depending on the part of the body. Fine for the upper half with some exceptions, and mostly coarse for the lower half.

I’ve already gone for many sessions of laser hair removal for my forehead and cheeks. The treatments started at 12 joules/cm^2 and got worked up, per session at 2 joule intervals if I remember correctly, to 20 joules/cm^2 at 18 mm spot size, at which I had several sessions under. And now, I’m being treated at 25 joules/cm^2 at 15 mm spot size, which I’ve had several sessions at.

So my question is, is it safe for me to jump to 30 joules/cm^2 at 15 or 12 mm spot or is 25 joules the maximum fluence I should be treated at?

The reason I ask is because there seem to be some hairs that are resistant to the treatment even at 25 joules. I asked my practitioner to try my last treatment at 30 joules/cm^2 and she said that it was too high for my skin type and that I might end up with some permanent skin discoloration, hypo-pigmentation. So, I just ended up having her do it at the prior settings to be on the safe side.

Prior to starting the treatments, I believe I read in a study that Alexandrite lasers could be used to safely treat patients with type IV skin up to 40 joules/cm^2 so long as the other settings were adjusted properly. Mainly, I believe it had to do with the how long the cryogenic spray was used for. I’ve also read that hypo and hyper-pigmentation is temporary, lasting several months after which the effects subside and coloration turns normal. And from my own experience, the only negative side effect I’ve had up to this point is some red spots that appear on the treatment area on the day of, which only last for a day or two.

So, do you think that she is being too safe for my own good or are her concerns warranted?

Also, I plan on having my thighs, bikini area (partial), and nipples done in the near future and was wondering what would be some good settings to start off at? I should note that the hairs are pretty coarse in all three areas.

I was thinking that I could have her start my thighs at 20 joules/cm^2 at 18 mm, and move up to 25 joules/cm^2 at 15 mm, after a session or two. My thighs are pretty pale, well paler than my face, and if my face can handle 25 joules, I don’t think I should have any problems there.

The bikini area and my nipples are a little trickier since the skin is definitely darker there than the rest of my body, I would say it’s light to medium brown.

The reason I ask is because I have a feeling my practitioner is probably going to want to start me off at 12 joules/cm^2 at 18 mm, as she did originally with my face since it’s a new treatment area. The thing is that when I was having my face treated it didn’t seem as though I was getting real results till she started treating it at 20 joules and even 25 joules to some degree. And I don’t want to waste time or money going through unnecessary steps. Although I will admit that the hairs on my face were somewhat fine making the treatment process more difficult.

OK, this post is getting way too long. So let me finish by just saying I will appreciate any help that can be provided.

Thanks,
'squatch

2

a couple things:

  • we cannot advise you over the internet if you will burn or get pigmentation at 30j/15mm. that is up to your clinic who can see you in person and if they’re not sure and you’re willing to risk it, they can do test spots at those settings. however, you should realize that you may not be getting results on the remaining hairs because they’re now too fine for laser to get. laser won’t get rid of 100% of the hair. if you’ve had 8 treatments on an area already at the settings you mention, and there are still some that remain, i would switch to electrolysis to finish that area.

  • you shouldn’t be risking pigmentation and burns just to kill the hair. side effects may or may not go away, depending on how severe they are. you should always keep within safe settings for your skin type, and switch to a Yag for areas that are too dark.

  • you’re not taking in consideration different body parts and depth of hair on those parts when you’re looking at settings. 30j/15mm is not necessarily better than 20j/18mm. it all depends on the area you’re treating, how deep and coarse the hair there is etc.

3

Thanks for replying to my post lagirl.

So, I suppose it’s fair to say that you shouldn’t advise me about specific settings as everyone reacts to these treatments differently. But I am also looking for some treatment parameters, to see were my treatment settings fall.

As I stated in my earlier post, I believe I’m between a III and IV skin type.

What I would like to know is what are the effective settings for people of this skin type? Does it range from 20-25, 20-30, or 20-40 joules with the maximum allowable spot size for the Gentlelase?

I know that some of the members of this forum are well educated in this field, either through their own experience and research, such as lagirl, as well as dedicated laser therapists, such as sslhr. So I would like to hear from both sides, those who have been treated and those doing the treating if possible.

I will concede that it doesn’t make sense to risk permanent damage to remove some hairs but I like others here are looking to make the most of our treatments within safe parameters. I just have no idea what those parameters are.

I probably will be getting my bikini area and nipples done with a Yag, I believe they have a Coolglide as well. Also as I stated in my previous post, the hair in these two areas are coarse, maybe even thick.

With these things in mind, what might be some good parameters to work in? I believe the maximum spot size for the Coolglide is 10 mm.

I do realize that laser is not going to remove 100% of my hair but I don’t plan on having any electrolysis done so I’m trying to get the treatments to be the as effective as they can be. My skin tends to scar easily from cuts and the last thing I need is another set problems to be feel self-conscious about. I plan on just plucking the hairs that are left and maintaining it that way.

Appreciate any help that can be provided,
'squatch

4

if your skin can handle 16j,18mm i would stick with GentleLASE and not go for a Yag. Skin types are approximate and people have underlying pigment, so there is really no way to predict how your skin will react. test spots are your best bet and an experienced clinic.

also, not sure if treating nipple area is a good idea. there are usually too few hairs for laser and they’re deep. laser can be an overkill. i would do electrolysis there(i did that actually myself). however, bikini should be good results.

5

Just out of curiosity, why are you recommending the GentleLase at 16 joules and 18 mm over the Coolglide?

Is a Yag laser that much less effective at high flences, than an Alexandrite such as the Gentlelase, at low fluences? Is it that the Coolglide, with a rather small maximum spot size, is less likely to be effective even set at high fluences? Or is it both?

I probably will have a test spot done at the settings you suggested and proceed from there.

While the hairs around my nipple are thick, they are sparse, and might seem like a waste of money to treat, which is what I believe you are alluding to, I don’t believe my therapist will charge much if anything to treat that area. It’ll probably take a minute to treat both sides. She’d charge me if that was the only thing I was going to have done, but since I plan on having so much done at the same time, I doubt it.

If I’m wrong and you are alluding to the fact that, that’s a hard area to treat in general since the hairs tend to be deep, then I don’t see any harm in trying if she’s not going to charge me much, if at all. If it doesn’t work maybe I’ll look into electrolysis at that point.

As I stated in my last post I have this aversion towards electrolysis with my tendency to scar somewhat easily. So I’m trying to avoid that route if possible.

And I did read that portion in your treatment diary and wondered, why you chose electrolysis over laser for your nipples.

Thanks again for replying back to my post lagirl. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me.

'squatch

6

In terms of the first question, the answer is both. Yag is always going to be at least slightly less effective. Yags were made to cater for darker skin, and they do work, but mostly only well on very coarse hair. And if you’re light enough to use 16j on 18mm with GentleLASE, which is an effective setting, your results will overall be better than with a Yag even at high settings. Yags cater to darker skin, but they do lose effectiveness in doing so.

Now in terms of your nipples, most people have finer hair mixed in with the sparse coarse ones around their nipples. Besides the other two factors you pointed out, there is also a chance of stimulating those finer hairs to grow in darker since they will be hit by laser as well when treating the coarse hairs. I don’t think it’s worth risking, especially due to the other factors in addition to this. Electrolysis treats one hair at a time, so it is much easier to get that area to look natural.

Btw, electrolysis does not cause any scarring. There isn’t any more chance of that than with laser burning you. If the person knows what they’re doing, which is something you should be looking for in both cases, you will have perfect skin after treatments. Plus, it’s easy to tell if the treatments are hard on your skin right after the first 15 min treatment, which is not enough to cause any scarring. If you feel the electrologist is not good, you can switch to another. Your location is not stated in your profile, so we can’t help with any recommendations. You can search here for an electrologist recommendation.

7

Sorry about taking so long to reply, just been busy lately.

In any case, I might look into getting some electrolysis done as there are some areas where I want the removal to be more selective than what can be done with a laser.

I guess I’ll use my nipples as a test site before treating any of the other areas.

By the way, I live in New York City, so any recommendations for a good electrolysist would be great.

Once again, thanks for your help lagirl, definitely appreciate it.

'squatch

8

Both laser and electrolysis may be a great plan for you. The combination approach works well for many.
As far as your need for skilled electrolysis care goes in NYC:

Arlene Batz is located in Queens

Ronni Kolotkin is in Manhattan

The Gior siblings are in Long Island

Barbara Leibowitz does multi-needle galvanic, I believe, if you want that modality (50 W 34th Street)

Don’t know which would be more convenient, but this list is a good place to start. I’m sure there are others that are very good as well, but these are the names that have been mentioned here on hairtell by people who are quite satisfied with these electrologists.

Dee