Some advice please :)

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hi thanks for reading this,

I was hoping for some advice on my electro. I am a trans person getting beard removal. In the past I’ve had about a dozen sessions of laser on my face but it didn’t work out too well for me.

Currently my electro person is using an Apilus Cleo, I’ve just had a google and I’ve seen there may be a Blend and a different Flash model? If there really are two models (are there two models?) my electro person seems mad on flash I assume they have the flash model.

It looks like this with the picture of the lady on it:

http://www.hofbeauty.co.uk/_images/thumbs/AP093_570x570.jpg

We started on flash but I felt that the flash was riskier for pitting and generally slower to completely kill thicker hair off so I asked to switch to blend.

We currently run it on 10 seconds and 50-55 intensity using a none insulated gold needle.

My issues are thus, and I don’t want to seem like I am moaning but I am spending lots and lots of money on this so I want to get it right.

  1. Regardless of how much I drink or moisturize the night/morning before we seldom see loads of lye coming out, apparently my electro person can see the lye making the skin bulge but it doesn’t come out very much at all.

  2. Sometimes I can hear fizzing on some hairs and those hairs seem to come out with very little tugging when tweezing but by and large the tweezing tugs a lot to the point where I can see my skin being pulled toward the tweezers and it basically feels like the hairs are being plucked not released from a successful electro. The tweezing hurts so much more than the electro itself.

  3. My electro person seems to always move the needle up and down slightly for almost the entire duration of the 10 seconds zap. When I inquired it was suggested that this was to help the lye move and form but when working with a none insulated needle it seems to me there is no need to move the needle around and the point would be to get the needle right down on the root for the entire 10 seconds?

  4. Sometimes when the needle is stuck in me it feels like it’s pushing through skin rather than being put down a hole that is already there.

Thanks.

#2

Hi!
Well I guess since I’m the resident bigmouth transgirl with the most experience and biggest mouth, the others have run for the hills and left this one for me to answer. You came to the right place. Let me address your points one at a time.

  1. You wont get lye splooge on every hair. Some of the causes of not seeing it possibly are:
    a) too deep an insertion
    b) too shallow an insertion
    c)dry follicles
    d)Certain areas of the face dont seem to produce much ( higher cheek) but still will if you get a good insertion
    e) improper insertions
    f) insufficient energy delivered to the follicle or insufficient timing

If I had to take a guess as to what i happening with you I would tend toward several factors:

  1. 10 seconds at 0.55 MA is insufficient for large typical trans beard hairs. That might be ok for thin upper lip hairs, but personally I use 0.65 MA for minimum 20 seconds ( 2 full cycles on my apilus SM-500) sometimes up to 30. The difference in extractions is extraordinary, it’s the difference between a pluck and a properly epilated hair.

  2. it sounds like your electrologist is struggling on the insertions. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to be moving the probe in the follicle during the delivery of treatment energy. I also personally, don’t like insulated needles for blend. It limits the area the DC current is delivered too much, and if you are off on the insertion, you will miss the saline pocket and get no lye. Use a gold plated non-insulated probe on the same insertion, and you will see a nice lye splooge that will distribute ITSELF int he follicle.DC current will take the path of least resistance to complete the circuit. That should be via the saline in the follicle. If she is going too deep or too shallow ( it sounds like too deep) you’ll miss the saline with the non-insulated part of the probe and get no lye.

  3. you should NEVER feel the needle piercing skin. This indicates an inaccurate insertion, and if you miss the follicle and hit flesh, you wont get lye and there will be no epilation energy delivered to the follicle.

Honestly, I think you need to discuss some of these factors with your electrologist. If they cant/wont correct them, then move on to a different electrologist. For immediate steps I would:
increase treatment energy SLIGHTLY and increase timing considerably.Try this on a few hairs and you will notice the difference immediately.
Ditch the insulated probes in favour of non-insulated ones.This is a personal preference, but makes a big difference if your insertions aren’t spot on.
By far my biggest concern here are the inaccurate insertions.If she cant improve, move on and try a different electrologist.

Transgirl Beard hairs are VERY different than the typical female hairs most electrologists are used to dealing with. They are thicker and require more energy.

Seana ( another transgirl , and amateur electrologist. When it comes to removing TG hair though, I know as much or more than anyone .)

EDIT: Here’s a test I would suggest ( which will demonstrate both to YOU and the electrologist what I’m saying

  1. epilate a hair as you normally would.Tweeze the hair close to the skin and use the lenght inside as a depth guide
  2. on the next hair insert to EXCTLY that depth. Do a colored hair, NOT a grey and get a good insertion. Now epilate for 2 full cycles ( on my apilus SM -500 this relates to 38 on my presets with pulsed blend, or roughly 0.65 MA and 4 cycles of 9% thermolysis for 0.78 seconds) . Note the difference in feel on the extraction.
  3. go back to your original method and timing. Alternate between the two. You will quickly notice the difference in feel on the extraction, and should be enough to convice both of you the extra timing, is absolutely necessary.Also, if the insertions arent good, it doesnt matter how much energy ylou are delivering, you wont get a properly epilated hair. This as I mentioned prior, is my biggest concern with your post. It really does NOT sound like they are getting good insertions.
#3

I hardly know where to begin with these last two posts: some good information, some sketchy notions, and “I think I’ll develop my own method” ideas abound. And, that’s fine. It’s a free country after all. If it’s working … bravo!

I’m only comfortable re-stating one “tenet” of traditional blend methodology (that is always ALWAYS dismissed): the correct HF setting is not arbitrary and not a “number or percentage” but based on pain tolerance and (working with the progressive 2-handed technique only — the “foundation of the blend”) based on the time a hair epilates. After epilation time is established, it’s just a matter of simple arithmetic.

But then, what the hell do I know about this?

#4

What do you mean Michael ? I’m not sure I understand what you’re getting at?

#5

He’s picking on my “set numbers”. I didnt pick them arbitrarily though, I took them from a common preeset I use ( 3 the setting for chin, 8 course hair). He’s right though! Tolerance does have a lot to do with the selection of the level of thermolysis used in blend, HOWEVER . The presets I use re based upon common suggested values by the equipment manufacturer. I’ve also through experimenttion found them to work. I think the more important point though is be prepared to increase or decrease your values according to both results, and your personal tolerance or comfort level. In the case of dealing with TG thicker ( and more electrolysis energy consuming hair) this fits in pretty well with what I suggested.

I would love to keep my epilation times down michael. I’ve a proceedure though that has been proven , by me, to work, on ME! I cn make suggestions based on that , whether or not they are "technically " correct.

Oh, and two handed blend is almost impossible for DIY, but much more possible for professional sessions. Yet I almost NEVER see it used!

Seana

#6

Given some privacy issues, this post is removed.