So discouraged...

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hi everyone - first time poster, long time lurker.

I’m a 29 year old female with excessive facial hair. It ranges from my sideburns, down my neck, partway up my cheeks, my chin, and some on my upper lip (essentially a full beard). It’s red/dark and very coarse and grows quite quickly (I shave in the morning and can feel stubble in less than 12 hours).

I am also lucky enough to be terribly prone to ingrown hairs and have very fair skin that turns (and stays) red and irritated under the best of circumstances - so shaving daily also causes lots of problems for my skin, and means I must wear full makeup all of the time in order to look presentable.
I plucked for a few years about ten years ago, but realized the damage I was doing and have been shaving daily ever since. I also got a couple of laser (IPL) treatments two years ago, but was told because I have red hair, it would basically do nothing for me - positive or negative.
I am overweight, but not horribly so, and have never been diagnosed with any other health issues that could contribute to my hair growth. Female facial hair runs in my family (mother and two sisters), but no one else has it to the extent that I do, or the sensitive skin to complicate things.

I underwent professional electrolysis treatments this year for the first time for nearly 6 months hoping that this would be my savior. During that time, I probably had about an average of 6 hours per week, totaling close to 130 hours. I was only able to afford it because my practitioner only charged me the “hour” fee for a three, sometimes four hour session. I finally had to stop, very, very sadly, due to financial constraints.
Since then, I have gone back to shaving, but now that it’s all grown back (it’s been about a month since I stopped treatments) - there is not even the slightest bit of noticeable reduction in hair growth from before I first began treatments. In fact, for some reason it almost seems worse than it was - but that could just be perspective.

First question - is this normal? If I ever start electrolysis again, will I have to start back at square one? That was my biggest worry when I was forced to stop, but I didn’t really get an answer.

My practitioner assured me that around the 6 month mark was when I would start to really notice a difference, but I don’t know if I just didn’t get to see this at all because I stopped treatment altogether.

My practitioner was wonderful to me throughout my treatment (she used thermolysis), though I could often feel the hair “popping” out of the hair follicle (she said this was normal and that she knew no other way of doing it when I asked her about this), and I have been left with permanently darker skin on my upper lip (possibly due to overtreatment?). It was even hard keeping a positive mind during my treatments because I pretty much always had red, swollen/bumpy skin in between sessions that I had to cover the best I could with makeup just to live my every day life (I work with the public, so I need to look like a human).

Is it possible that electrolysis simply didn’t work for me?

I’ve become more and more severely depressed about my facial hair over the past couple of years. I am single and working a decent job, but it makes enough money to pay the bills with not much left over. I had a little extra money, but it was all spent on my electrolysis treatments earlier this year.

I can’t see myself ever getting married and being able to continue to hide this problem from someone I love (let alone make it through the wedding day without being a bearded lady by the time we make it to the wedding night), so I tell myself I’m fine spending the rest of my life alone, but just I don’t think I can do it.
I want to lead a normal life - do things like camping, or going to the beach without worrying about my makeup sweating off and showing my razor bumps, or even be able to go out on a date without making sure I have time to shave before I go. It would be so amazing to just feel like a girl. :frowning:

I really need some advice - how to manage financing electrolysis on an already tight budget, how to find a good practitioner, other solutions to my hair/sensitive skin problems even? Anything.

I just feel like I’m at the end of my rope, and I don’t know what to do anymore. Thanks for any advice or tips you can give me.

#2

Absolutely [size:17pt]NO[/size]. That you’ve been getting has nothing to do with E-LEC-TRO-LY-SIS treatments, but a tweezing under the guise of Electrolysis. I really am truly SORRY and ANGRY. Do a favor to yourself and all potential customers of this electrologist, tell her to look for a good school where they teach how a proper electrolysis treatment is. This will benefit the entire profession in general, and she and her future clients in particular.

#3

This is not a failure of electrolysis. If anything, you have not been able to get full clearances to take place within a 6 week window of opportunity. Your skin is NOT permanently darker from anything that has taken place thus far, however, you would need to enjoy a significant period of time with neither irritation from hairs, shaving or hair removal treatments to be able to allow the skin to return to normal.

This is one of those times when one definitely needs more information than may be available.

I will bet money that JustaGirl29 does NOT have any before during or present pictures that would allow us to reasonably assess this situation.

We don’t know how much hair she started with, how much her practitioner was removing per hour, if she had many different levels of thickness, was her practitioner using a full clearance maintain and expand, or spread out gradual reduction approach?

The client states that not only are the hairs plentiful, coarse, and curly, but that they had been plucked for some time, thus making them tougher, more distorted, and maybe even more plentiful. Then, there is perception; the eye will not perceive a reduction in hairs until at least 51% of hair in the area has been removed. That is a lot of work going unnoticed.

Is it possible that this client’s hair is too much of a challenge for this particular practitioner’s current level of skill? Sure, that’s possible. It is possible that the practitioner has never worked a man’s beard, in which case, this job is something she has never seen the likes of before. the thickness of the hair matrix, the depth of the follicles, the distortion, and the higher treatment energies that sound like they are off the chart, could all have gotten the best of her talents. On the other hand, it is just as likely that she has been doing acceptable work, just pushing a boulder up hill and watching it roll back down, as the number of hairs she can remove per session has not yet reached the point of getting the client any period where she has any time being free of noticeable terminal hairs when viewed from a conversational distance of 4 feet away. We could not even know without comparing pictures of the client a year after a full treatment, and it has only been 6 months.

The practitioner in question has treated this individual with much kindness and charity, we should return the favor, even as we all smugly say to ourselves how we could have done a better job. Of course, even that thought comes without knowing just how much time this client would require to get the necessary work to look the way we want her to look, compared to the amount of work that was able to be done in this case.

I recently had a client who I told that I would require 5 days to do a first clearance on a +500 hair per square inch beard with multilevel hairs, 95% of which were white or clear, 60% of which were deeper and thicker than normal and a host of other challenges. The client gave me 3 days. I worked hellish 16 hour days attempting to get as much as possible done, and when time expired, I was impressed with having cleared all of the mask area of coarse terminal hairs, and having made a march to the throat. The client groused about how I had not accomplished a full clearance, and complained that even in the areas I wanted credit for clearing, I had left long accelerated vellus hairs untreated. I was then treated with days worth of calls and emails obsessing over the healing of the skin post treatment. It was a total no win situation. Had I done all the accelerated vellus hairs, there would have been more skin trauma and we would have been lucky to reach the jawline. Prioritizing as I did, we got more bare skin, but the client could only see the glass as half empty, even though it was the client’s failure to give me the time I needed to try to do the job that left us having to leave the hindmost behind. Maybe I should have given away 2 free days of work just so I could get the job done and avoid the negative scrutiny. Of course, even if I had done that, I can’t say we would have gotten all the levels of hair we needed cleared across the full face and neck.

Frequently, electrolysis is like figure skating, a bunch of people who can’t even do the tricks you are performing get to judge and criticize your performance, and say you should have kept your toe tucked better, and you twitched on the landing of your quadruple toe, salchow backflip.

#4

I would just like to clarify that my post was in no way meant to be an attack on my practitioner, or me being ungrateful in any way, but me reaching out for advice in what to do going forward with a problem that affects every aspect of my life.

I didn’t stop treatment with her because I thought she was doing a terrible job, but because I simply don’t have the money to keep up with it (as I believe I said in my post). I’m sorry if that somehow makes me a bad person, since your response seems to indicate that I’ve done something wrong. In all the times that I’ve been watching the forums on hairtell, everyone has always seemed so supportive and understanding and full of great advice, which is why I finally decided to reach out, so the response is unexpected and a little hurtful.

No, I do not have pictures of before and now, mainly because the only camera I own (or can afford to own) is my cell phone (and no, it’s not an iphone), which can’t take a focused enough picture to really show the hair growth. Believe me, I’ve tried.
My perception of the hair growth comes not from the way it looks, since some of it is blonde, but mostly red and dark, but from the way that it feels, the ease of shaving, and the response of my skin when I shave it - if that makes any sense.

As for the way my treatments were done - she initially started by focusing on one area (my chin), but then as she was able to get a little less regrowth at a time, session to session, from the initial areas, she was able to expand and eventually clear my entire face on a regular basis - as in every other week or so.

However, I do have to argue that my upper lip is definitely permanently darker (a lovely shade of red-purple) from the treatments I received. Up until the last month or so, she would spend about an hour or more each session just on my upper lip, working to totally clear it.
My entire lip would be noticeably swollen, raw and red for days afterward, sometimes not even healing before my next treatment. About a month before I stopped my treatments, I actually asked her to stop treating my upper lip altogether because it was so red and raw and painful, and I could already see that it looked like I had a reddish purple mustache, even after my lip actually had time to heal a bit. This didn’t exist before I began my treatments, but I hope that it will go away with time.

I apologize if I’ve done or said something wrong. I really am just looking for advice. Thanks again.

#5

Also - just a side question - everything I’ve read about electrolysis says that as long as you stop plucking at least 6 months before you undergo treatment, it should be effective.
I haven’t plucked in almost 9 years. Would it still affect my treatment that much?

Thanks again.

#6

Justagirl I read your original post and in no way did it come across as disparaging towards your electrologist. I really felt your sadness and desperation at having put so much into this (6 hours a week for 6 months is a BIG commitment!!) and to have got so little out of it must be heartbreaking. xx
What you need is someone to recommend a good electrologist who can come with a recommendation near to you (who doesn’t cost the earth!) to help.
There WILL be someone. Please don’t lose hope! xx

#7

Justagirl your post was not mean spirited towards your E. you just sounded disheartened which is totally understandable. I feel your pain. It seems like woman’s faces would be one of the most important areas to treat and yet it seems that it is also one of the most difficult areas to treat ! Michael Bono wont do women’s faces which only confirms my statement !
I admit that i get depressed on here when I see photos of thick make beards and entire male bodies being , as if magically cleared. (I know it is NOT magic, but the painstakingly hard work of the few dedicated and skilled E’s oh this site) . Yet I have so much less hair than that on my face yet haven’t been able to have it successfully treated. I relate deeply with your feelings about how having to secretly shave affects your life and keeps you from living in the open. DITTO! There are difficult factors in this case. 1. women’s faces don’t seem to be as easy to “complete.” 2. Travelling to work on face is very costly and would need many repeated trips? 3. Finding someone skilled who can do this work is incredibly difficult and you may not know till after much investment of time and money if it was successful. Take all those factors and it starts to feel like an impossible dream. Then you come to this forum where pictures and clearance stories are posted and it all seems easy, that it just makes you feel kind of crazy. Ugh!

#8

Please do not jump to conclusions based on Michael Bono´s preferences. The woman’s face is one of the easiest tasks to complete. Especially if the client wants to remove all the hairs that the human eye can see. If the strategy is to select only the longer and coarser hairs, work can take a lifetime, because the woman is constantly developing new hairs if genetically she has this predisposition. But if the strategy is clear all the hairs, wait, and re-clear, the rule of the 3 clearances will be accomplished with the same accuracy as in other body areas.

#9

(By the way, the following DOES NOT relate to the original poster AT ALL. This is “general in nature.”)

Jossie is right: women’s facial hair removal is “no big deal.” EASY to do … EASY! Do you really think a man’s BACK is easier to do than, say, an upper lip?

My preference to not work on women’s facial hair is really about “who owns the hair;” not the job itself. (And, yes I’m going to get myself in BIG trouble here!)

It’s about how a male and female usually approach a situation. Men, most of them, will look at the possibilities, chart out the course of action, get some sort of guarantee, and then do it! That’s my approach to almost everything too. All the “feelings and emotions” about the thing might be there, but they don’t enter the action about getting it done.

Not all women, of course, but most of them take a very “emotional” course of action with their facial hair. For example, Pearl (real name) called me a week ago Monday morning and had to get in exactly at 10:00 AM to remove her chin hairs. I couldn’t do it. She said the next day would be fine. It wasn’t … she never called. Why? Well, she tweezed out the hairs.

Pearl has been at this for 20 years! Maybe I see her for two 15-minute appointments every 2 to 3 years. The appointments are always short, because she has everything shaved and tweezed out. Oh yeah, it’s SO nice to be seeing all the damaged skin, brown spots, ingrown hairs, etc., ALL from her tweezing! Will she listen to me? Yeah, sure! I just gave up!

And then the angst. With almost every facial appointment, I hear the stories of how all of this RUINED their life. I’m thinking: why not just get it removed and it will stop ruining your life?

There is also the notion that “they can’t find an electrologist, or so-and-so did a bad job” … or something like that. (And of course all the SCARS that the electrologist gave them! NOT!) Facial hair removal is EASY and I truly believe nearly every electrologist on the planet can get this done. But, the patient never seems to stick to the program.

So, after all these years I just gave up: “screw it!” Underarms, legs, bikini … all fine. Face? “S/F” DAMN! Yes, I do understand that it’s your FACE and you don’t want your beard to be sticking out. But if you’d just do it … well, I suppose I’ve already said too much!

I’ve probably done 10 men’s beards … during the time Pearl is still at it, removing her scant “chin hairs!” Gosh, it’s fun to be old and grumpy … ha ha ha! “Curmudgeon!”

“Don’t hate me 'cause I’m honest!”

#10

But back to the original thread…

… which is NOT about a woman coming to an electrolysis appointment with freshly plucked hairs and refuse to start shaving instead of plucking.

It is about a report on 130 hours of electrolysis and still a lot of hair. For the price and possibly also the equivalent of about 30. What is described here should probably not happen even to a beginner coming directly from school, but we all know it occasionally does. Anyway, given the price reduction it might still be a fair deal.

And now - perspectively? Justagirl cannot continue with the treatment because she ran out of money. Annoying. Really annoing. But something that will last forever?
What about about getting a better job and saving up some money to continue? And then visit an electrologist who is able to do the job efficiently? Following the description of the growth pattern the task does not seem to be very difficult.

I know - often hard to achieve, i’ve also been struggling around for many years as well. But not impossible.

So there is hope.

#11

Jossie, i wish i could see you. ALL of the zappers i’ve met , which have been many in Canada, NONE do the three clearance method, Nor even knew what I was talking about. I think we’ve discussed this before So we don’t need to go through it again…im just saying it is super hard to find such a procedure done here.

#12

Justagirl, Your experience is really unfortunate and I know that there is nothing I can say to ease your suffering right now. Your upper lip will most probably make a total recovery, but it will take some time. The change will be gradual and should show a slight improvement within weeks of ceasing this poorly performed treatment. Red hair is the strongest,deepest most persistent type of hair of all, and unfortunately the skin of a redhead is often the most sensitive as well. This is a very bad combination of factors for the less experienced practitioner. Are there any other electrologists in your area?

#13

Hi everyone, thank you so much for your supportive words. My upper lip has been improving ever so slowly since I stopped treatment, and right now I’m back to shaving every day, but it seems like my skin/hair has been rebelling ever since. Razor burn and bumps are worse than ever.
There are other electrologists in the area, but only one with notable credentials/memberships, and she has very limited schedule availability and the hours I work just wouldn’t make it feasible to get there on a regular basis.
In the meantime, are there any products out there that are well known that might help me clear up the razor burn/redness right after shaving?

#14

Hi there :slight_smile:

I can completely relate to you, your story sounds exactly the same as mine with the only difference being that (although I’m naturally blonde) the hair on my face is fairly dark (dark enough to be treated with laser). My facial hair is also hereditary, I tweezed a lot a while back, then resorted back to shaving every day (because the stubble comes through so quickly, like yourself), I’m prone to ingrown hairs and my skin is a bit of a mess now, what with the shaving rashes etc…

For what it’s worth, I didn’t think you sounded derogatory towards your electrologist at ALL. I’m sorry that you shared your story and your worries/concerns and you weren’t met with immediate support from the forums. It takes an awful lot of courage to share things on here, and I feel as if the response you initially got was not very compassionate.

I’m not a professional in any way, but this is the opinion I have, based on the information you’ve given :slight_smile:

First question - is this normal? If I ever start electrolysis again, will I have to start back at square one?

You say you’ve had close to 130 hours of electrolysis and you see absolutely no difference from when you first began, correct? I would say that, no, this isn’t normal (but, like I said, I’m not a professional, so my opinion may be completely wrong!!) I would think there are a few reasons why this could be – firstly, perhaps your electrologist didn’t treat the hairs correctly, whether by not zapping the follicles in the correct area, or with a high enough intensity to kill the follicle etc… She also could have been plucking, but as you’ve tweezed before you would probably be able to tell if she was plucking the hairs. It could be that you do suffer from a medical issue which causes excess hair growth that has been undiagnosed, so it’s maybe worth going to see your doctor and explain the situation to them? But then again, if it runs in your family, it is unlikely that there will be a medical explanation!

It is really strange that you’ve seen no improvement after 130 hours! Do you think you’re maybe just thinking that there’s no improvement, but there actually is? I’ve only had around 30 hours of electrolysis so far and one side of my face was looking very clear, then suddenly BAM – full face of hair again. It did feel slightly finer, but then I had to shave it because it was still so unsightly, and that made it feel coarse and thick again, and in my mind I looked and felt like I was right back at square one (even though I wasn’t).

I’ve always read that, if done correctly, electrolysis is effective, so, in short, it was either the fault of your electrologist, an undiagnosed medical condition, or just that you simply can’t see the reduction because the hair still distresses you. If you do go back and have more electrolysis, I think it’s unlikely that you’ll have to start from square one again, given the time you’ve spent on it already, but I just can’t say for certain, it’s a really odd situation!

Unfortunately, I don’t know anything about the darker skin on your upper lip. I didn’t want my upper lip treated, so I don’t really know much about how the skin reacts in that area!
I completely empathise when you say:

I can’t see myself ever getting married and being able to continue to hide this problem from someone I love (let alone make it through the wedding day without being a bearded lady by the time we make it to the wedding night), so I tell myself I’m fine spending the rest of my life alone, but just I don’t think I can do it.

I want to lead a normal life - do things like camping, or going to the beach without worrying about my makeup sweating off and showing my razor bumps, or even be able to go out on a date without making sure I have time to shave before I go. It would be so amazing to just feel like a girl.

I sat and cried to my electrologist recently, and I told her all my worries about never getting married or having a family. Like you, I tried to convince myself I was ok with being alone and that I could cope. I told myself every day that marriage just obviously wasn’t what life had in store for me, and I could deal with that. But no, I can’t deal with that :confused:

It would be SO nice to be able to go camping and to the beach, wouldn’t it? I went camping about 7 years ago, and I had to sneak out of the tent at about 6am and hide behind a tree, trying to shave my face without a mirror and apply copious amounts of foundation to cover the rash. I was ridiculed for bringing makeup with me on a camping trip, and ended up being told I was conceited and vain because I couldn’t go without ‘preening’ myself for one day… I’ve never been camping since!

I’ve had to stop going on dates because I can’t even look the guy in the eye… I look at the ground, constantly pull my hair around my face and generally just act like an awkward weirdo! :stuck_out_tongue: And whenever I’ve been intimate with anyone I’ve literally pushed them away or swatted their hands away if they even try to touch my face. It’s all very un-romantic!

I once took a pair of tweezers to the beach with me while I was on holiday and sat under a parasol, plucking away furiously, hidden, whilst everyone enjoyed themselves in the sun :confused:

I’m certain that you WILL be able to do all these things though – once you find the right method of hair removal that works for you, you’ll be given a whole new lease of life :slight_smile: So try not to depress yourself by thinking that you’ll feel this way forever!

I really need some advice - how to manage financing electrolysis on an already tight budget, how to find a good practitioner, other solutions to my hair/sensitive skin problems even? Anything.

Ever since leaving University I’ve been jobless, so I literally had NO money for electrolysis. I had to resort to spilling all the details of my horrible hair secret to my mum, and she has funded it for me ever since. Do you have any family members who you could confide in, and perhaps borrow money from? If that’s not an option, are there any ‘extras’ you could give up and put that money towards the electrolysis? Or do you have enough time/energy for a second job? You could always resort to selling things, old clothes, things you no longer want/need? There might even be some charities that would be willing to help out if you told them your story?

As for finding a good practitioner, I would just recommend the internet. Look up all the places that do electrolysis in your area, research them thoroughly, even go for consultations at them all, and see if you can find any reviews from people who have used their services before.

As for solutions to your sensitive skin, I haven’t come across anything that has helped me out so far, as I have sensitive skin too! I’ve been using bio oil, but I honestly don’t think it’s made a bit of difference. I’ve been using it to ‘moisturise dry skin’ and ‘even out skin tone’, but all it does it give me a greasy face for the whole night :stuck_out_tongue: I find that a good moisturiser is the only thing that does my skin any good. I find that the better hydrated it is, the less irritated it seems to be.

I don’t know if I’ve been much help, all I’ve done is ramble haha, but just know that you’re not alone and I really, really hope that you manage to find a way to be hair-free and happy soon :slight_smile: If you ever want a chat, or want to ask any questions then I’m right here! :smiley:

There are other electrologists in the area, but only one with notable credentials/memberships, and she has very limited schedule availability and the hours I work just wouldn’t make it feasible to get there on a regular basis.
In the meantime, are there any products out there that are well known that might help me clear up the razor burn/redness right after shaving?

Just noticed this post. I would suggest going and speaking to this electrologist if you can get a chance (and if you haven’t already). She might be able to work something out with you. Is there any way you could speak to your work and see if they would give you certain times off? Perhaps say it’s for medical treatment or something? You could get some sort of confirmation from your doctor that this is damaging your mental health and that the treatments are needed. Your work might understand?

As for the razor burn/redness, I can’t think of anything that would clear it up, but if you use a green tinted makeup base, or green concealer then this will help cover it up. The green colour counteracts the redness (obviously cover it with your foundation, unless you want a green face hehe :stuck_out_tongue: )