Sensitive skin issues and slow zapping: Redness, whiteheads, ingrown regrowth

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hey!

I’m a long-time lurker who just created an account because I’ve recently started seeing a licensed electrologist, but have some questions that I’m struggling with, and haven’t found any posts that are quite like me…

I’ve been bothered by vellus mixed with fine terminal hairs all over my chest, stomach, back. I’m particularly bothered by the more visible patches around my nipples and a dark line of growth down the center of my chest to around my navel. Not sure how to describe the hair but while it is on the finer side like vellus, it’s not as fine/invisible as ‘peach fuzz’ that I have elsewhere on my body.

  1. I’ve started seeing my first ever electrologist who seems to get about 120 hairs per 45min (I get an angry red welt per follicle so I can always see exactly which ones get done).
  • Is this rate of work considered slow?
  • If the machine stops working and they take a while to figure that out, or they need to adjust the furniture etc., is it normal that the timer is still kept running the whole time?
  1. Is there any reason not to do thermolysis for at least a first pass?
  • They’d told me that they would spend about 5-6 seconds per hair using the needle, then uses tweezers to slide out the strand. This timing, plus me having to hold the rod, I’m assuming that this is blend?

  1. I have incredibly sensitive skin and despite using the bottom one or two intensities, every ‘zap’ creates an angry red spot that lasts for days. About 10 of the 110-120 hairs per session also become whiteheads that take even longer to go away. I basically look like I have clusters of acne on my torso for a week after each session. I’m following instructions to avoid using soap for 24 hours, wiping vs not wiping beforehand with personal hygiene wipes, and I don’t use cosmetics. What can I do to reduce or eliminate this happening?

  2. I get many ingrown hairs/spots that look like mini razor bumps of hyperpigmentation and they’re not going away after a month. How can I reduce this or quicken recovery?

  • I have never gotten these hairs treated before by laser, electrolysis, anything beyond failed attempts at using a razor (I’ve tried a Schick as well as a peach-fuzz one, shave gel vs soap vs water; you can still see the follicles afterwards, also the regrowth leads to a line of ingrowns), or years-ago having to pluck thick terminal hairs with tweezers (literally 1 strand per half year kind of growth).

Forgive me if anything here sounds cynical; I’ve been deliberately misled by unrelated service providers before, so I definitely prefer getting answers from multiple sources instead of just asking my one person, especially since this is a pricey pursuit. Also, I’ve only posted on one other forum in the last decade, but I’m eager to learn - Please correct me if I should have posted this elsewhere/differently and I’ll do better next time!

Thank you!

#2
  1. I’ve started seeing my first ever electrologist who seems to get about 120 hairs per 45min (I get an angry red welt per follicle so I can always see exactly which ones get done).

Is this rate of work considered slow?

If the machine stops working and they take a while to figure that out, or they need to adjust the furniture etc., is it normal that the timer is still kept running the whole time?

*** Not sure how others work, but my “hour” is always an hour-and-a-half. I have a timer … but I am not a “clock watcher.” A few moments to adjust herself? I wouldn’t worry about that.

  1. Is there any reason not to do thermolysis for at least a first pass?

*** No reason … thermolysis is fine.

They’d told me that they would spend about 5-6 seconds per hair using the needle, then uses tweezers to slide out the strand. This timing, plus me having to hold the rod, I’m assuming that this is blend?

*** Sounds like it … blend that is.

  1. I have incredibly sensitive skin and despite using the bottom one or two intensities, every ‘zap’ creates an angry red spot that lasts for days. About 10 of the 110-120 hairs per session also become whiteheads that take even longer to go away. I basically look like I have clusters of acne on my torso for a week after each session. I’m following instructions to avoid using soap for 24 hours, wiping vs not wiping beforehand with personal hygiene wipes, and I don’t use cosmetics. What can I do to reduce or eliminate this happening?

*** So far, in my 45-years of doing electrolysis … I have never met a patient who didn’t say they have “sensitive skin.” I guess we all have sensitive skin. Without photos I can’t judge the post-op … but it all sounds normal.

I get many ingrown hairs/spots that look like mini razor bumps of hyperpigmentation and they’re not going away after a month. How can I reduce this or quicken recovery?

*** Well, ingrown hairs (from electrolysis)? Now, THAT is a big concern. The hyperpigmentation is going to take months to resolve.

#3

so, let me get this strait, you want to stop paying your electrologist if they have to adjust equipment to get at the specific area to be treated? If you go to a mechanics, and they charge you an hours labour to fix your car, do you start deducting the time it takes to get the tool out of the toolbox or retrieve your part from the service counter? When I’m doing treatments the timer doesnt start until the first insertion is made, and stops only if I pause it to retrieve something like a hyperdermic to remove an ingrown. Adjusting a magnifier, or turning the table to address the hair is part of the job we are doing. If you dont want to pay for that time, stop growing hairs at different angles that require this adjustment .

If the practioner is doing blend, its likely they are also using an uninsulated needle. 120 or so hairs isn’t horribly slow if they are using that time to get good releases of the hair for 45 minutes of blend. The whiteheads could be indicative of an allergy to the nickel contained in stainless steel, and a good way to find that out is to try a gold plated probe instead and see if the reaction persists.

Seana

#4

Thanks Michael,

My electrologist mentioned that for vellus, initial treatments might stimulate blood flow to the region and worsen the hair growth, not sure if they meant increase vellus density and/or convert vellus to terminal - If this is so, does this logic apply to thermolysis but not blend? Trying to figure out why we jumped straight into blend.

Will attempt to upload a pic, edited: it worked yay! I do have dermatographia, eczema, and nearby keratosis pilaris, but I tried to capture only a treated area. This is exactly how it looks right after treatment and for at least a week afterwards (no reduction in irritation or whiteheads)

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Re the ingrowns - Any advice on removing or minimising? Sounds like the hyperpigmentation is just a time-based thing…

#5

Hi Seana, in this case it’s more like the mechanic discovers the hydraulic lift is broken but still charges me for the time anyway. For example, when the machine wasn’t working due to a power outage (3-5 min to realize and resolve), or they need to wrangle some cables, shouldn’t the timer be paused?

Can I ask what the difference is between retrieving the hyperdemic to remove an ingrown vs the other adjustments you mentioned as examples? Is it a duration thing or something that makes you pause for the former?

I’ve tried to do some research into blend vs other modalities, but I’m not sure I understand what qualifies as a “good release”. For first pass on vellus, is a “good release” necessary? I have some health issues that may require some experiments with hormones… Is that going to just change the vellus growth patterns and render the “good release” wasted?

Thanks for the suggestion, my electrologist had mentioned the needle is uninsulated and I’m not sure that they have plated probes available. I’ll be sure to ask.

#6

Your photo looks fine … no worries. My only suggestion would be to not bother with actual vellus hairs: a ton of wasted money. There are much better ways to spend your money. I would not classify the dark hairs in your photos a vellus hairs … and yes, they need to be gone.

#7

Thanks Michael for the reassurances. The bad news for me is that my front is entirely covered by hair that looks fuzzy but is interspersed with darker (but fine) hairs like this, I imagine there’s no easy way to really tell them apart so should I just assume it’s all non-vellus? Would you advise switching to thermolysis to clear them all quickly first, or just stick with the blend?

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#8

Velvet I think I have a handle on what may have happened with you.
Like Michael I reserve an hour and a half for a 1 hour appointment. 30 minute appointments are 1 hour in my schedule. a 15 minute appointment is 45 minutes, as is a 10 minute appointment. Starting to get the picture? This is because clients although they do generally arrive on time, it can happen that someone is delayed as much as five minutes. Just because they have arrived doesnt mean I have gotten their coat off, down to my treatment room, where magically I am gloved up their skin has been cleansed and new needle loaded . When they are done they must pay, and this again takes a few minutes. None of these things count as treatment time. IT’s why a 8 or 10 hour day can be as little as 5 or so hours of “actual electrolysis” .
When I have to fetch a hyperdermic ( literally 10 feet away) that’s a conscious choice I’ve made to protect the sterile implements and must walk 10 feet away and rest my probeholder in its clip before I do so. I probably move my table and adjust positioning 50 times an hour .This is NOT the electrologists fault and is a part of treatment time Often I dont even charge for the time of the extraction, until that moment when the pedal is depressed again . I make it up out the leeway I give to ensure clients dont come into contact and for billing. time.
Now, I happen to run an Apilus Xcell most of the time . In the event of a probeholder failure ( and yes these are prone to failure by design) it often, would mean that failure occurred PRIOR to commencing treatment. It happens, but it isnt the client 's fault, nor the electrologists. While my own pracise is to generally RESTART the treatment as every single insertion made up to that point is now in question, it’s not always possible due to time constraints to do so. Regardless if I were to consider the first insertions acceptpable, and think that their treatment was within parameters , I would still check the timer before stopping and reset it to that time after done swapping and testing.The swap and ttesting proceduure ITSELF is likely to have shortened the time available by a good 10 minutes minimum. Why? Because I’ll have to change the needlecord, replace the needle with a new one for testing on me to ensure operation, then re- cleanse the cord and replace with original needle to begin treatment again. No way am I expecting the client to pay for that time.
Not every electrologist will work the same way or have the same practises.Some may consider probeholder failures to be a part of the clients paid for time, as it’s a regular occurrence.

This also should serve as a reminder to users of the xcell and platinum Dectro products, have you checked your supply of needle cords lately? Not having one ready to go mean you are now done for the day ( and maybe a week) when this happens.

#9

Thanks Seana, both you and Michael sound like wonderful electrologists. If only I lived near you instead!

My provider does not give leeway for any of these things, the treatment time is scheduled to mean treatment time not prep/undress time, and I pay for every minute of my slot regardless of such delays so I guess I’m a bit unsettled. I have a few more visits scheduled with them but if this pattern continues I’ll be looking for another electrologist.

#10

Oh and I forgot to ask, I have read these forums re the modalities but for the pictured kind of hair, would @Bono and @Iluv2zap suggest I switch to thermolysis instead of blend for time reasons? Or would thermolysis be markedly less effective (wrt permanence) to the extent that the slowness of blend is worth it?

#11

That would be a no from me, and well, Michael literally wrote the book on the blend method, so I’m, pretty sure it would be a no from him as well. I did my own face in blend, and you are looking at a false economy if you think that switching to thermolysis to "save time…( and money!) will get you there faster. Both of us realize that the modality that the electrologist recommmends, is the method by which they can usually give you the most efficient results. Thermolysis can take a high degree of skill to reach anything near the effective kill rate of blend.

Think if it this way, if I can treat 250 hairs in an hour doing blend ( I average about that or 300) at a near perfect kill rate, am I better off treating 2000 hairs in an hour ( nearly twice the most I’ve ever done) but only kill 50 of them, which one is going to get you to the finish line first, killing 300 or 50 in the same hour? reality is not as bleak as I make it out to be, and most thermolysis practioners do a fine job. But blend is VERY thorough, even if a little slower. In all cases the modality your electrologist is recommending to you, is the one you should go with. It is the method they are most experienced with and can get you to that end goal most efficiently with.

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#12

Thank you again Seana

#13

Regarding sensitive skin (dermatographia indeed) and acne, it’s actually OK, and in my opinion advisable, to shower and wash with soap or a salicylic acid body wash after treatment. If you get a cut on your hand, you wash it, apply antibiotic, and then a bandage right? You can also clean the area with hydrogen peroxide and rinse with water. I would avoid applying oily lotions for the first 48 hrs, as that can clog the damaged follicles and cause white heads. Use witch hazel and aloe vera to soothe the skin instead.

Any technique will work in the right hands. Michael did say thermolysis is fine too. “Slow” and “fast” is not as important as permanence. It’s important that the hairs didn’t come out with a deep resistance, like a pluck or a pull. Michael is concerned about ingrown hairs after electrolysis because dead hairs don’t grow back and don’t ingrown, but perhaps you have naturally curly hair that always come out first as a bump, and these are the other 70% resting hairs in the area waking up and growing or something? Seems like a lot keratosis pilaris bumps in the untreated area.

#14

soap or a salicylic acid body wash…hydrogen peroxide…avoid applying oily lotions… witch hazel and aloe vera

Thanks Catherine, I’ll give those a try.

important that the hairs didn’t come out with a deep resistance, like a pluck or a pull

Hm, some of the hairs do resist after the zap (I rarely feel the pluck but electrologist commented on this. However they were reluctant to go stronger as I get angry scabbing). Is that fine/Are there alternative means of addressing that resistance?

dead hairs don’t grow back and don’t ingrown
resting hairs in the area waking up and growing

Oh, so it’s true that resting hairs might wake up? My provider mentioned that electrolysis might stimulate otherwise-resting hairs so initially I might see more than usual growth.

They also said that some follicles require more than 1 treatment to not grow back?

My natural hair is fairly straight actually, but on areas I’ve shaved (like my forearms) some strands do regrow out from bumps, so maybe my skin just inclines towards ingrowns/bumpy regrowth?

Seems like a lot keratosis pilaris bumps in the untreated area.

Yeah, I just found out it was a genuine condition that other people had (I don’t know anyone in real life with it!) - would welcome any recs on dealing with that. I tried exfoliating and shaving a shoulder to address the KP/fuzzy vellus there but now I have about 10 extra-large bumps (like red whiteheads, but no pain or pus. Maybe regrowing hair? Aggravated KP? No clue really) that won’t go away after weeks and just as much KP as before… so I maybe should’ve just left it ugh.

#15

You said she is using blend, and blend can be a bit more likely to scab, but scabs that are teeny tiny and not preceeded by blanching is not neccessarily a bad thing, think of it as your body’s Bandaid covering the wounds to keep the bacteria out. With blend, one can increase the current or the time for the thicker hairs.

Resting hair follicles are just asleep for a while and they always wake up eventually and make brand new hairs. On the body, the percentages that we were taught were 30% actively growing and 70% resting at any one time.

Even if the hair is not completely killed and grew back, you’ll see a difference in that it will at least grow back a lot finer and thinner because of the partially dead/ weakened treated follicle.

I would see a dermatologist for diagnosis and better recs for the bumps if they are keratosis pilaris, but I would try to avoid oily products for the first 20-48 hours after electrolysis.

I’ve never been a fan of shaving, I disagree with what the school taught us.

#16

So, when practitioners answer the “how long will it take” questions from clients and the general public, we answer with something like 12-24 months. We don’t specify that it is shorter for galvanic, medium long for blend and longer for thermolysis to complete a case. All three modalities, under the umbrella of electrolysis, will get you to the finish line within 12 -24 months if you are getting cleared or some ways close to that and not feeling like you’re being tweezed. In your case, I would choose thermolysis.

I do all the forms of thermolysis and the only clients that linger beyond 12-24 months are the ones that continue to tweeze or present with rare cases of hormonal vulnerabilities and variations.

I can’t understand why there is all this discussion about stopping the timer for actions that pertain to the electrologist giving you their complete focus as related to getting you hair-free. If you move on to someone else, they will most likely operate in the same manner. The only time I pause the timer on my epilator is if I have to physically get up off my chair and respond to something in the background, not related to doing electrolysis. Yes, a paid for thirty minute appointment is really an hour of my time to pass pleasantries, set up, disinfect, review the chart, do the accounting, not to mention the several text messages I may have exchanged with for the client. I’m not complaining, but this is how it works in many professions. When I see my my family doctor, it’s $98 for 10 minutes (I’m not complicated… yet) . I don’t question that charge because it’s really not just 10 minutes of focus time on me for him and his staff.

You skin reaction will heal. Looks like your practitioner did their job well.

#17

I’m still associated with TBC (Japan) and in 2015 they charged $610 for an hour’s treatment (10-minute increments). I had an interview with a UCLA cardiologist (heart pain following the vaccine). He did an EKG, blood pressure, 10-minutes of chatting (“you’ll be fine”), and the charge was $1200. Yep, California. I’m moving to Ohio.

I find it interesting that the ONE organ we can see and feel is the organ that is cloaked in mythology and mystery … and a TON of hyped ideas and worthless products.

#18

That’s my motivation for staying on Hairtell. Every ailment in and on the body is blamed on electrolysis. Yes, sometimes poor electrolysis care is legit and I am so grateful when people post their pictures and ask questions. If we have enough information, we tell the truth about what we THINK could be the problem and how concerning it may be and we try to offer ideas to fix it. Electrologist’s are not always 100% perfect (I know I’m not) and clients are not 100% perfect. Removing hair permanently is a very, very difficult technical feat to hone. There are a lot of moving parts to get this just right. Everybody is different physiologically and many times they bring a borderline personality disorder, along with already damaged skin to our tables.

Those prices in Japan make me scratch my head. California, too, but taxes are much higher in CA. Don’t move here! California crap always blows in from the west. Not to brag, but SHEETS is selling gas here for $3.49/ gallon. Costco is about $1 more. Inflation is only going to get much, much worse. They don’t know how to stop printing and spending money in Washington. I’m seriously thinking of helping my son-in-law with his new sustainable hydroponics farm ( salmon and greens) and closing up shop in the near future if my taxes and business expenses keep rising.

#19

Yep … we are at $7.20 for gas in California. Locally, our City government just shut-down oil production in our county that was safe, profitable (they paid the City) and without environmental problems. Now for a couple real stories.

One of my clients wanted plastic surgery and settled on only doing her upper eyelids. A couple weeks after surgery, she complained that the surgery “caused a little sagging on her neck.” Dr. Chapple just went ahead a gave her a free “neck job.” Although there was no connection … he said, “It’s easier to just fix the ‘problem’ than to deal with all the nonsense.” She ended up loving Chapple.

My friend Dr. Welsh (oral surgery) removed a wisdom tooth from a patient … a couple months later she complained that her “belly button” was now off center! She sued him but the judge threw out the case. She was willing to settle for $10,000 … but just lost.

#20

Oh, interesting to know other professions attract nutballs. Thankfully, 99% of my clients are on the level of reasonable humans. Love them all, even though the other 1% need more of my patience, time and energy. Dr. Chapple sounds like a wonderful and interesting person.

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