Rachelle's Laser Odyssey

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

Hello all, you may know me from the electrolysis part of the forum.

I started this thread to document my Laser adventure.

Tomorrow will be my first treatment with Laser. I’ll be doing both underarms (for now).

I found this place after recommendation by two sisters who had laser on their underarms, face and legs by this particular individual. They are satisfied with the experience and result so i thought i would check her out first.

I called her up yesterday and introduced myself and also told her i was referred to her by her clients. I told her i wanted to do my underarms and asked how to prepare (which she said to shave the day before) and asked her what machine she used. She said Nd-Yag, which is good cause it was either the yag or candelase that i had in mind.

my oppointment will be tomorrow at 1pm and i think she’ll do the whole underarm. no patch test. I mean its a small area and its hidden and she seems good and so will just jump right in and do a full treatment. i’ll only pay for this session and see how it goes.

i know to use the biggest spot size and go as high as i can and i’ll let her know that.

The price is fishy. i mean its very cheap. 30$ for both underarms :open_mouth: . hey i aint complaining! she said there’s a sale this week. Every other place i’ve seen was around 100$ for underarms. so i’ll go check her out tomorrow and see how it goes.

i shaved about 3 hours ago and my appointment is at 1pm tomorrow.

here are pictures of what i look like after i shaved 3 hours ago. u might notice i got a fairly larger than average area of hair coverage in my underarms. my skin is pretty white.

will let u know what happens tomorrow and i’ll take pics. :slight_smile:

Jan,15,2008. Left and Right underarms

[img http://www.geocities.com/rachellepics/armpit1.bmp /img]
[img http://www.geocities.com/rachellepics/armpit2.bmp /img]

let me know what u guys think. gross i know. sorry :S. btw what skin type does that look like? 2? 3?

#2

An advice, make sure they’ll do free touch up if the hair doesn’t shed due to low setting or bad technique.
$30.00 is very cheap and if they do a good job that’s great, but if the area is not affected because of low settings that will be just a waste of time. I am Type III with dark coarse hair and the setting they used to start was 55 Joule 15 mm for a 10 mm spot size (Yag laser Cutera). I used pain killers for the pain.

#3

Hi muci, thanks so much for your post! i wish i saw it before i went cuase i wanted to ask about touch-ups and i totally forgot to ask.

so anyways i went in and the laser place is part of a hair saloon. The lady works privately in the back and does other things like nails and waxing.

so here’s the info and to my shock but not sure if its a bad shock.

its a Nd-Yag, she used a spot size of 4!! (i was like huh!? becaue everyone here recommended like 12 or 18 spot size) and the setting was at 72. She said the highest after that is 90. I asked her that a bigger spot size is better and she said that not necessarily and it depends on the heat setting etc. ok will see how it goes.

it took about 10 mins or less per under arm and she wiped down the area with some sort of gel and applied ice and also put ice when it would hurt between zaps. ice is good!

I could smell burning hair and it hurt lol. but it was bearable. during the treatment she told me it was a bit red but right when we finished the redness was gone. its only 10 mins later right now and am writing this post and there is no redness. i dont even think taking a picture is necessary because i look exactly the same as last night (i.e. pictures i have already posted). right now its tender and i can feel a bit of pain but its not red. i’ll put ice later.

before treatment i filled out all these forms and liability stuff not to sue her if something goes wrong lol. and also to understand the risks involved. she also gave me a sheet to take home about what to do and not to do.

she wore gloves and had this magnification and lighting as she did the laser. We both wore protective glasses. before starting it felt like she drew lines on the area to be treated.

now the laser probe itself looked funny (maybe its because i havent seen alot to begin with). Its a cylinder thing with two metal probes sticking out of it and red light shines in the middle (she told me the red light is the 4 spot size). i believe the machine was called smart something. Everything happened so fast i dont know why i didnt ask more questions.

My fingers are crossed and she wanted me to book another appointment 4 weeks from now but i told her i would call to book.

good luck to me! and to all of you! ur comments are very much appreciated :slight_smile:

-rachel

#4

Can you please find out what specific Yag machine she’s using?

Since you’re mediterranian, you’re probably a type IV, so Yag is a good machine for you.

What kind of results have your sisters had? How many treatments? Have they seen shedding each time? Spaced how far apart? How long has it been since their last treatments? What is the percentage reduction they’ve seen?

Spot size of 4 is tiny and usually not very effective. The joules are very high, which isn’t necessary. You didn’t provide the pulse setting, so that would be helpful to know. In general, high spot size, high joules, and low pulse is most effective. You have a good type of hair and skin for laser treatments in order to get good results fast, but treating at such low spot size will probably not get there very fast, so $30 per treatment may not end up being such a good deal since you may need more treatments.

We can help more if we know the name of the machine. Spot size may not be adjustable on it. On most machines it’s not. Candela is the only one I know of that makes adjustable spot size machines.

#5

hey lagirl,

i’ll call her and find out soon about the machine. and it wasnt my sisters. i meant my friends who are sisters. and i think the machine is smartepil.

my friend said she’s only went 3 times for underarm and is not completely done because she didnt have time to go for more. her sister has done legs and underarms and is very satisfied. she said she’s went like 10 times or something. and the hairs are reduced and thinner. she said she only needs to shave/wax about every 2 weeks or every month the remaining hairs.

but why is the spot size not very effective? isnt is just the space area being treated? just saying that it would take longer to treat the area beacause it doesnt cover as much space per zap right? so instead of 10 mins would be 20 or something. plus its the underarms. not a big space to begin with. why must the spot size be bigger?

am going to check other places after i see how shedding goes. i cant keep asking this family questions because they arent very helpful. they just tell me she’s good and they are happy but when i ask detailed questions they either say they dont know or look at me like am a fanatic trying to know everything about their life :S.

i will pay attention to how my shedding goes and report back. thanks lagirl!

#6

Hiya Rachelle,

Great to see you on the Laser forum. Firstly, I find it odd that the laser tech jumped straight in without a test patch, but all to their own I guess, if she’s experienced she should know what she’s doing.

As lagirl said, a spot size of 4 is miniscule, theres been studies showing that spot sizes smaller than 10 aren’t even that successful without many treatments. It does make me wonder if the machine is designed primarily for hair removal or whether it’s for other skin treatments such as red vein removal and so on.

You were right to tell the tecnician that you will call her back later when you need another appointment, 4 weeks is usually way to short, although in saying that I haven’t heard much about how fast hair returns when treated on a spot size of 4mm. Maybe Choice or sslhr could shed some light on this.

As a side note, I generally found that the smaller the spot size the more painful it as, which was odd but meh could be me just being wierd.

Oh yeah, and Cynosure also do adjustable spot sizes (Cynosure Elite model etc.).

Kind regards,
Benji

#7

The tech could have set her spot size to 4mm machine like Benji Boy and LaGirl explained to you. I don’t know why she would reduce it but I know my tech. once reduced it to 7mm spot size at 80 joules to do fine hairs. Shedding occured with no issue in that area.
I used the YAG in the fall because I still had a small tan and my hair is coarse but I am planning later to switch to a Diode (Lightsheer) or an Alexandrite laser (I am type III).
So far I am at the max setting for the 10 mm spot size at 60 joules and if they want increase the joules the spot size has to be reduced to 7 mm. For my opion it is too small to do the whole legs (takes too long and more chance to miss areas). Some tech. told me they used Yag’s small spots size to do upper lips and other small area. I think for underarm or other small areas it might be OK… But I am not sure the best indicator is resul; see if shedding occurs in the next couple of weeks but to book an appointment in 4 weeks is way too early.

#8

4mm is not for hair removal. I can’t imagine treating the underarms, let along LEGS with 4mm. Underarms only take a couple minutes per arm with 18mm. Underarm hairs are deep. Even those that appear fine still have deep roots. In my opinion the 4mm spot will not put enough energy that deep to do much long term damage.

I’ve never seen hair treated at 4mm, but you still would not need an underarm treatment at 4 weeks. Treatment #2 would still be around 6-8 weeks, pushing more toward 8.

I don’t know how she pays for the laser working 20 minutes and only charging $30. That’s some sale, which is an indication that business is slow or there’s a lot of competition or people are not returning for follow up treatments.

#9

Yes, as Choice said, spot size is NOT just a matter of how fast an area is being covered. The laser beam works as a pyramid. This means that spot size matters in how deep the beam penetrates and the overall “strength” of the setting. There is a reason that the max joules setting is decreased as the spot size goes up. Most likely, there won’t be longterm damage at 4-8mm spot size. On myself, I wouldn’t be treated at anything less than 10mm, but usually at least 12-15mm if at all possible. GentleLASE and GentleYAG are some of the best lases on the market in part because their spot sizes go up to 18mm, and in part because the pulse can be set very low on the Yag version and is at a very low 3ms on the Alex version.

#10

thank u thank u! i appreciate all the information and comments very much!

next session i will go to someone different. and i’ll look for place that uses a laser machine with a big spot size and ask for it when i book an appointment! tho i doubt i’ll find a person who charges 30$ a session! hehe. I went to this person because she was recommended by my friends. i didnt even know the price till i called to book an appointment and i was shocked lol.

so if shedding does occur, i should probably wait 6-8 weeks until i book my next appointment at a different place? but lets say this session was screwed up and did nothing for me. could i go in much sooner?

#11

I bet businesses like this just curse the hairtell professional laser experts who question equipment used, ineffective levels and pricing. It’s hard for the inept and mediocre to hide, thanks to the internet and hairtell.com

These lovely people have just saved you from the realization of wasted time and money, Rachelle.

Dee

#12

Do run a search here and see if anyone’s recommended clinics in your area on the forum. You need a Yag laser such as GentleYAG, Coolglide, Sciton, Apogee Elite, etc. GentleYAG has the largest spot size.

Treatments should be spaced 8-12 weeks apart. If you don’t see most of the hair shed in 3-4 weeks, you can get a treatment at that time. Otherwise, wait until enough hair is back for your next treatments, which should be in 8-12 weeks from this one. If your hair is very coarse, and the treatments are with a good laser at good settings, you shouldn’t need more than 6-8 treatments. I’ve only had 5 on my underarms, which took care of 95% of the hair, and finished up the rest with electrolysis.

Just like with electrolysis, make sure to have consultations at 3-4 clinics before you pick one.

Where in Ontario are you? Are you in Toronto? There are many discussions about Toronto clinics on the cosmetic enhancements forum, so you can run a search there.

#13

Did your friends experienced long term hair reduction with her treatments? I would try to find out the name of the machine and ask her if the spot size can be increase. Also before dismissing this place I would wait for shedding.
Tonight I had my second laser session for upper legs and I explained your situation to my tech and she told me that she does increase joules and decrease beam size under certain circonstances. If this is your case the beam was adjusted to 4 mm, I would then ask her why she did it.

#14

Decreasing the spot size is not uncommon, as sometimes it helps with finer hair on some machines. But decreasing to 4mm is what is an issue here. It shouldn’t be decreased below 10mm for effective treatments.

#15

Dee… i agree 100% that is why i post here in the first place. so i can get help and save myself from waste of time, money and pain by having expert people in this board notice a problem in a hairremoval situation. ALSO for others to learn from my experience.

i love you guys!!

Lagirl, that is indeed what i will do. am going to search the forum for specific places near me. am not in the toronto area. the outskirts actually and i really want a place veryyyyyyy close to me because i find travel time is a killer esp now with electrolysis. so i know of a few places near me that i will go do consultations with once shedding occurs with this current treatment or/and about 6-8 weeks have passed. I will definatly look for the highest spot size i can find and a Nd yag and one of those machines u’ve mentioned. i value ur input and everyone elses very much and take them to heart!

Muci. I felt very good when u remembered me and asked ur laser person. like wow! :smiley: that means alot to me. when i asked the lady why she used the smaller spot size, she said its because she can target smaller areas like eyebrows (i found that fishy because i thought laser near the eyes is risky and most ppl dont do it…anyway i didnt want to poke furter with her. am the shy type and i dont want to intimidate ppl or make them uncomfortable).

about my friend. speak of the devil. the same day she had an appointment half hour after me. she went in for her chin but she said its taken more treatments to deal with it. i always knew laser for face isnt that great. she said she only did 3 treatments for her underarms but she definiately needs more but didnt go for a while. this friend is useless, sorry to be rude, but seriously am asking questions and she couldnt be more vague. i even asked whats the percentage hair reduction and etc etc. no answer! it annoyed me so i just gave up and was like forget it. she was going every month tho when she was going regularly. i thought that was too close together appointments.

for sure my next place will be a consultation at another place. and i’ll report back as usual. :slight_smile: i’ll report back about shedding also.

thanks all sooooooooooooooooooo much! and plz feel free to ask me any questions. i’ve become an expert at electrolysis and am new with laser and i hope to help any one with anything just like how i’ve been helped all these year :slight_smile:

rachel

#16

hello everyone,

its about a month later since my first laser treatment for my underarms. I was a bit hesitant with this because of the spot size she used which was a 4! it was a yag laser.

anyway a month later. no shedding has occured and i still shave my underarms regularly when i take a shower. I sometimes try to pull at the hairs to see if they would come out but nothing.

The laser lady called me today and left a message on my machine telling me that she was available today if i wanted to come in. When i went in last time she said she prefered her client come in every month for treatment. which i found weird. anyway i do not want to go to her again because of the spot size being so small. She’s a nice lady tho. Am still trying to find a place that uses a big spot size.

-rachel

#17

As you can now tell and we warned, that “treatment” was pretty useless. You’re right about not going back. It shouldn’t be hard to find a place near you that uses a good machine and only charges $50-100 for underarms per treatment.

#18

hey all,

i’ve been meaning to update this for a while now.

so last time and first time i went into for laser for my underarms (details in above posts) was january 16. it is now march 8 and that is about 7 weeks and right now there are hair free spots. visually i can see spots of no hair and running my fingers up and down the skin i can feel where there is no hair. so i think it worked! of course there is still hair there and am shaving every time i take a shower but there are spots of no hair at all in the center.

i know most of you said that the lady’s machine did not have a big enough spot size to be effective and that i pretty much wasted my money. and so i didnt go back to her or even think about it after all your posts. but what does the hair free spots tell you? did it work? should i go back?

plz help me out here.

thanks!

#19

Hey there Rachelle,

You may get some results from the 4mm, but they may not be as uniform as would, let say, a GentleYAG treatment. As the hair gets finer as well (if it has or is there just bald patches and then the normal thickness?) it sounds like the laser may find it difficult to get the hair. This does depend on how low the pulse is e.g the lower the pulse, the finer hair the laser can pick up.

Have you found out what model the laser is?

I’d shop around a bit hun, see if there is a clinic that uses a GentleYAG/MAX or other true lasers in the same league in your area. Finding a good laser place is just like trying to find a good electrologist, make sure you shop around and get as many consultations as possible, so you can be completly informed about the different lasers, technicians, techniques and so forth that are available in your area.

Regards,
Benji

#20

Even if the hair was somewhat affected, I doubt there was any permanent damage to the follicle at those settings. That means, that it will be regrowing again and again. If you waxed, the same thing would have happened, but it would have been cheaper. The issue is that there needs to be a certain level of heat generated to permanently damage the follicle, and those specs are not enough to create it.