Questions before Treatment

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

I want to introduce myself by saying that I have been reading these forums off and on for a little over a year and just now have decided to post. My first plunge into LHR was a little less than successful. I was sold a package treatment as “laser” when in fact it was IPL. Now let me also say that I am a very good candidate for laser with pale skin and dark corse hair. I just have a couple of questions with this next series of treatments I am about to undergo.

First of all the laser tech I’ve chosen has been practicing for more than 15 years, with her initial training in europe. She uses a GentleLase system with the intention to start my treatments at 22j and i will assume 15 spot size. There was only one thing that did not line up with most other success stories on these boards and that is the length in-between treatments. She stated that I should be treated on a monthly basis in order to aggressively attack the hairs. She mentioned that most American trained techs wait 8 to 12 weeks inbetween and although that is not ineffective it gives the hair follicle enough time to restrentghen itself. With all this is mind I am signed up for 10 treatments each scheduled a month apart. She did mention that although I wont be able to see the hair starting to return after shedding it has already begun growing inside the follicle and therefore able to be treated.

Also noted that she was very upset that most clinics have patients sign forms and accept no responsibility for lack of actual results. I did read several great reviews that seemed very genuine stating much success. She had a very high emphasis on energy that is used and how important that is in order to achieve successful results.

thoughts on this?

#2

Treating yourself every 4 weeks won’t do any good. She claims that the hair is already growing inside the follicle where you can’t see it, but this is not true. Pretty much all areas on the body have longer hair cycles than that (with some areas needing 12 full weeks before they even BEGIN to regrow hair). Even if some baby proteins were starting to form the base of a hair, it would be so fine and small at this stage that it would not transfer any energy to the surrounding follicle. The shaft of the hair in question has to be THICK, and as you’ve surely seen yourself, new baby hairs grow in very thin at first and don’t thicken up until they are well out of the skin (which is why regrowth from waxing feels so much softer than regrowth from shaving).

If there is not enough hair pigment to absorb the laser energy, it dissipates into the skin of nearby follicles. This is a big cause of induced growth (treating hair that is not coarse enough or dense enough) on certain areas.

The follicle can’t/won’t “restrengthen” itself. It will heal as much as it can within the first few days of the treatment of course like any tissue injury, but after that it’s not strengthening or anything fancy at the 8 week mark. What’s done is done at that point.

The advice is simply to go in when you SEE enough hair to justify the cost of a treatment. It may not be her policy, but she probably won’t pay that much attention to when you schedule appointments since her front desk probably handles that anyway.

Try to get her to use 18mm instead of 15mm if you have a large area. The larger spot size penetrates significantly deeper to kill deeply-rooted hairs and will also be large enough to avoid any missed spots which is a super common complaint here.

#3

One more thing: Your hair won’t even fall OUT until week 3. Getting treated at week 4 gives it less than a week to start coming back. There is no way you’ll have anything at that point (not even sub-surface baby hairs), unless she didn’t treat you properly the first time.

#4

She seemed pretty strict about the timing but then again she is offering to do my full back,shoulders,upper arms, and neck for 350 a treatment. Thats half of what another simular clinic was charging so for that deal I might just stick to her schedule. I did read that for the upper half of the body 4-6 weeks is acceptable although I’m sure I wont be maximizing results but on the upside I hit every hair that could possibly be in the anagen phase. I believe there are GREAT laser techs but no one has perfect technique 100% of the time and shedding doesn’t mean that the hair was properly hit either.

With that said I will indeed ask her to change the spot size to 18 although some hairs roots dont go as deep as others, so maybe 15 is a good compromise? I don’t want to throw money away either no matter what the deal so I’ll at least attempt to push each treatment out to 5-6 weeks.

Thanks for the info!

#5

Where are you located ???

#6

Okay, but the male back and shoulders/ upper arms is the most common area for induced growth, and you’re taking a risk getting treated on hairless skin. 4 weeks is so early, but 5-6 weeks sounds better. So my warning is to have visible hair growth (no matter what schedule you ultimately go with) before letting her touch this area with a laser, and that’s the last time I’ll harp on you about it.

Regarding spot size: There’s really no reason to have to “compromise”. Just ask for 18mm and it will hit all the hairs and prevent missed spots. One of the BIGGEST reasons why GentleLASE is so great compared to other alex lasers is because of the larger spot size. That’s a huge advantage (that and the low fixed pulse width).

#7

I wouldn’t discuss timing with them. Anything can technically happen. You don’t need to pre-schedule treatments. Just say you’ll call when you find out your schedule as it’s hard to know a month ahead of time. They can’t force you to schedule an appt or to avoid changing it. Treatment spacing is not something that is set in stone. You’ll know when you’re ready for another treatment. There is no benefit to treat that often as you’ll miss some of the hair that hasn’t developed yet and some hair gets more coarse after a while which makes it easier to target with laser (laser doesn’t care that the hair is new…it only “sees” the pigment, i.e. the color and coarseness of the hair matter the most).

18mm is best generally no matter what. It penetrates deeper as laser works in a cone-shaped effect.

That price sounds pretty standard, though it depends on where you are located.

I wouldn’t pre-pay for 10 treatments. You may not need them. I wouldn’t recommend to committing to more than 6 treatments. What I would focus on instead is finding out whether they will do touchups on any missed hair 3 weeks after the treatment.

#8

These are some really great responses thanks for all the help. Yes she seemed strict about the timing which threw me off a bit. As for stimulated growth that has already occurred in part because of IPL treatments I had undergone a while back, I didn’t know it wasn’t laser, i was tricked =(. I am almost certain my back will need 10 treatments but I might be wrong.

So to clear everything up. I should request the 18mm spot size, at what 20J? the max energy? (My skin can handle it Im really pale). And just hold off scheduling next appointments until I see new coarse hairs.

#9

I’m from the Baltimore / Washington area, placed tend to be inflated…

#10

If you can handle 18mm/20J setting without burning, then yes, you should go for that.

Induced growth can result from treatments with any machine, laser or IPL. This happens from treating hair that’s too fine and/or sparse. You should be careful about it this time as well. Only treat patches with actual dense coarse growth. Leave the rest for electrolysis.

There are some recommendations here in your area like this one:
Carol Dando
Cosmetic Laser Medical Center
405 Frederick Road, Ste 200
Baltimore, Maryland (Catonsville area)
410-455-6196
www.biolaseraesthetics.com

#11

Hey, good luck with your treatment - whatever you decide on I really hope it goes well.

I just started my treatments a couple of months ago, on the same areas using the same laser (skin type II). I am waiting 3 months between treatments, which is on the longer side, although judging by the rate of my new growth I think this is optimal for me.

From my experience (and it will surely vary person-to-person), after your first treatment you will not see much growth for about 6 weeks. After this, there will be more hairs coming through and you will be ready to be treated again. Something to consider (and it has already been alluded to) is that the thicker/coarser the hair the more effective the treatment. As a result, a newly showing hair at 6 weeks will be less effectively targeted than the same hair at 8 weeks since the maximum cross-sectional area of the older hair will be larger - this is the case for waiting a little longer.

As for settings, I went with the 18mm / 20J setting. Although this was painful, I would definitely recommend it as the depth of penetration is maximised. For at least the initial few treatments, I’d definitely go with these settings before even thinking about experimenting with spot size and energy.

I’m not sure how dense and coarse you hair is (this will determine the pain :)), but I’d recommend taking a couple of benedryl about an hour prior to the treatment.

Let us know how it goes!

Baboon