Question RE: hyperpigmentation (Maybe to Josefa?)

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#41

I wouldn’t say that your zapperette made any mistake at all. With almost every client I see, there are little nuances here and there that make me say, “Oh, what was that?” I wouldn’t even say she had a “bad day.” The few spots you have shown are common and not unexpected. Because you didn’t get the spots on the other arm is no proof that anything incorrect happened.

With my skin cancer and radiation, a week after the final treatment, the entire circumference of the graft peeled-off down to the papillary dermis (a bloody mess). Dr. Chapple and the oncologist said they had never seen a reaction like this. Do I blame the radiologist? Well, NO, I was checking all their parameters and settings; you know “micro-managing” … (yes, I do this too!) And, I’m fine now.

The point is that when something unexpected happens, one should not be too quick to assess blame or even a cause-and-effect conclusion. Still, if you are uncomfortable, then go to someone else. But if I were asked to give “expert testimony” in court, I would not be beneficial to your case. I have simply seen WAY too much over the years. Your case is not unique. Besides, it’s going to resolve 100% anyway.

That’s why medicine is called an “art” … and a “practice.” If you want certitude then maybe mathematics would be your calling … but, even then … well, you know!

I HOPE HOPE HOPE that your electrologist was not aware of your Hairtell activity … in a sense, if she is aware, you are in fact publicly punishing and humiliating her … for nothing.

I think you are making conclusions based on Jossie’s off-the-cuff statement … but, it’s time to give this a rest. Don’t you think?

Let me voice something else here. Indeed, there are clients that have been horrendously ripped-off and damaged … I know of these cases. Sadly, these poor devils never seem to take their fight to the public arena; even when gross negligence is a fact.

Consider this, and stop “beating up” on this poor electrologist!

#42

Michael

I have not once stated the electrologist’s name (I did not even say where I’m from when Seanna asked me, I just stated the region of my State, and only not to be rude).

And while others here keep applying a gender to the electrologist (like you have and Dee has), I always call them ‘the electrologist’.

I don’t think Josefa’s statement was off-the-cuff.

The area where I was over-treated was either a risk-area or not, which is it? The electrologist either applied too much energy, and stayed in too long - or they didn’t, which is it?

Perhaps you disagree with Josefa’s statement. That’s fair, but ‘off-the-cuff’ - why?

I would give it a rest if you wouldn’t continually refer to me as ‘OCD’ or ‘someone you wouldn’t want to treat’ or ‘dear so-called LDLD person’.

You continually insult me for absolutely nothing! I’ve done nothing wrong and I have not ‘beat up’ on my electrologist at all! You do not know me. You know how ‘LDLD’ is on an online forum. We always seem different on the forum than we do in real life.

In real life, I use what I have l learned on hairtell and then VERY politely address my concerns with the electrologist (I can’t believe I have to assure anyone that I’m being nice to my electrologist).

I can’t imagine a forum for patients/clients of a medical procedure, containing a doctor who harangues a patient who is upset/uncomfortable with their results. Or a doctor who chastises a patient for being upset with another doctor because doing so would tarnish said doctor’s ‘reputation.’

I’m sure those kind of doctors exist too but it seems taboo. You are acting like a politician.

I get along great with my electrologist btw - and it’s kind of disturbing that you’re worried about the their feelings and not MINE! I’m the one with the skin problem. I didn’t do this to myself - they did. Jeez!

I post my comments, such as they are, because I’m in-part venting and also looking for support. If you are so bothered by me then why do you continue to insult me? Just ignore my comments. I don’t think I want your advice anymore since (based on what you keep saying to me) you’re MORE concerned about business and reputation and not health.

Lastly, seeing a Derm is pointless. Anyone who obsesses about their skin knows what hyperpigmentation is and what the gamut of treatments are (HQ, Retinoids, lasers, peels, etc.).

What could a Derm tell me that a Google search couldn’t?

#43

Sure, okay!

I have to ask you: Knowing what you have … and that this is going away … and you know what can be done if you wish to do it, etc … what is your intention of continuing this discussion?

What answer are you looking for?

What more can any of us say to you? Not one of us can make this “go away.” Something happened and it’s going to go away. Why isn’t that enough for you?

#44

Michael, I wouldn’t have said anything if you didn’t continually condescend me in previous comments or refer to me in passing as ‘OCD’. It belittles and trivializes my situation.

But of course, you’re correct that continuing to post will not make my hyperpigmentation go away. Only time will tell - but before you began commenting here yet again, I was asking Josefa a question (which she answered, and provided me hope by posting pictures of someone with a similar situation to mine).

NOW, I’m done.

#45

Well, I will say that my own “OCD to detail” is legendary! Certifiable. Nothing wrong with it.

I’m thinking about your comments and have another thought about this.

I have discovered that what all patients want, is to know that their practitioner is REALLY in control of any situation and knows exactly what’s happening … and can explain circumstances in clear scientific terms. And, this has to be genuine … not just a bunch of rubbish.

Here’s a scenario that I’ll wager would not have brought you to Hairtell:

You get the bad skin reaction. The electrologist confirms that a bad reaction HAS taken place (no mincing words or avoiding the issue).

She then explains what the reaction is in real scientific terms. She then voices what she thinks “went wrong.”

Yes, maybe she did use a wrong needle, too high a current … or whatever. But she tells you directly with no equivocation that this was her mistake (if that’s what she thinks), and no “blaming the patient!” (Blaming the patient is the worst!

She then tells you about how long to expect this “side effect” and gives you a remedy to help correct the situation.

She does this with a great degree of confidence and certitude because it is “the real deal.” A “google” search or even a medical doctor can easily confirm her ideas.

I think if all the criteria had been met, as I’ve stated above, you would not have needed any reassurance from any of us. You would have known exactly “what happened,” and you would have had even more confidence in the electrologist.

And, that’s the lesson for all of us “in the trade!”

Oh, and I’m not worried a bit about you being miffed at me. Only my BEST friends are pissed off at me a LOT! (Just ask Jossie or Dee Dee!) Whether I’m right or wrong I state what I think and never “sugar coat” my opinions. I try to be truthful and not just state a bunch of empty platitudes. I DID take a lot of time to understand your concerns.

And yes, Jossie is THE BEST! There are two GREAT women here: Dee and Jossie!

#46

Sigh. Michael, I’m about the only one here who would get away with saying this. I’m also about the only one who WILL tell you this. You’re being as asshat.

Electrolysis clients are concerned about their appearance or they wouldnt do it in the first place. Of course they pay attention to detail. Of course they get all the information they can and fixate on anything they see as a problem. That’s why hairtell is here, to give them a chance to vent, to get information, to obtain assurances. Pointing them out by name and saying they are OCD is not going to win friends and influence people and goes against what we are trying to accomplish here. Michael LDLD is right. Be a good boy and apologize.

I thought I only spoke like this to my children when they beat each other up…

Seana

#47

I was also considering the following. The guy only had difficulty on one arm, and yet he alleges that his electrologist “did something wrong.” So, answer this Seana: Does that mean the electrologist was careful on one arm and then (deliberately?) was not careful on the other?

I’m not apologizing because my comments were made in jest. Look what I said about myself. If people cannot take a tiny look at themselves in the mirror and maybe some “ribbing” or criticism … that’s their problem kiddo!

Besides, I spent a damned lot of time trying to understand his problems. We even “invented” a new term? Besides, I don’t mind wearing the moniker “asshat.” I would only request that you call me “MR. asshat” next time! YEAH! And, I wear that label with pride! Hee hee!

#48

Besides, look at all the FUN I consistently create on Hairtell. I’m certain that I increase readership and a LOT of thinking. “A-typical” answers stimulate discussion. This whole thing got me thinking in new directions … I’m thankful to the guy!

Of course, I could simply offer the well-worn predictable “comfortable” answers that only make you feel good: make that inane and boring. I’ll leave that to others.

Seana, at what point, after every suggestion and possibility has been talked to death, does the electrologist put a “point on it?" After multiple reassurances by experts in the field, when does the hand-holding stop? Eventually we say, “Hey you have all the information; you can’t get blood from a stone!”

Point: Sometimes “things happen” and it’s NOBODY’S FAULT! That was the entirety of my position.

#49

I am also very grateful to the author of this thread. It is interesting to know the true perception that my friend has about my claims.

You are also a GREAT man, Michael, and a BETTER profesional by the way.

#50

There’s that word again. Hey! I was called an asshat by a colleague I admire so much! I don’t know what that means, but I took it as a compliment and asked her to call me an asshat white trailer trash with the “B” word and the “W” word mixed in because that sounded so much better. We both had a good, deep, long laugh.

It sounds like all has been said that can be said on this subject and I guess we are all a little OCD anyway. I think great patience and sympathy has been shown toward LDLD and I still think all brown dots will resolve in time.

#51

Meh , michael knows he’s occasionally opinionated. He would expect me to call him on it. I just dont think calling out posters by name to say things like that is really what the board is trying to accomplish. I know he gets it, even if he 's stubborn about it :slight_smile:

Seana

#52

We all have our own particular style of offering helpful advice to people that come here. Our personalities are different, too.

I always appreciate honesty, even if it gets a little personal at times. What irritates me the most is robotic-type, general answers that I can get anywhere on the Internet. I like detail and perspective. Michael tells it like he sees it. He is direct because he is honest, done all in the name of offering help and something of value. He has seen it all in the last 40!years and that’s why many people pay attention and listen when he posts. He is more sympathetic than may come across in this thread. I do think post #113841, in particular, proves that.

#53

I have a couple of “off the cuff remarks” to do.

First, when I said that the inner arm is a high risk area, it is because the thickness of the skin in this area is significantly lower than on the opposite side. Proof of this is that you can see how the blood vessels show through. Overtreatment in these cases can leave visible scars. I’m not saying that this is your case, LDLD, just trying to clear my impromptu remarks.

And second, I usually document my claims that although they may be wrong, are never accidental, but based on a fait accompli. For example:

Inner side of a man’s arm showing recent lesions by electrolysis. Work done by an electrologist in his country.

DSC05322.JPG769×577

Two and half years later. Overtreatment has left some permanent marks.

SAM_3731.JPG769×577

Closer:

SAM_3733.JPG769×577

Some things can not be avoided, hyperpigmentation is one of them. However, recognize our mistakes and work to avoid them is what differentiates a good professional of one who only cares about making cash.

#54

Seana, I don’t mind the “asshat.” Actually, it made me laugh and I liked it. Besides, I’ve been called much worse (many times too).

I do, however, take great exception to your labeling me “opinionated!” Maybe you don’t know what the term means?

Understand that if a person expresses an opinion, that does not therefore make them “opinionated."

Here’s Webster’s definition:
“Conceitedly assertive and dogmatic in one’s opinions.”

If you will take the time to read through this entire lengthy post (and other posts, for that matter), you will see that I was attempting to understand this issue. I took a lot of time with this fellow’s question. I did not immediately form an “opinion,” and in fact I came up with a new idea (and named it too!).

Honey, that’s not being opinionated.

Expressing an idea is necessary if any meaningful understanding can be discerned. The idea or opinion changes as new evidence is gathered and experimentation is completed. “Dogmatic” is holding onto beliefs “no matter what” … even in the face of compelling evidence.

In all subjects, I usually make everybody uncomfortable and often angry. I challenge everything. My Republican friends think I’m a Democrat, my Democrat friends think I’m a Republican. I drive them crazy.

I’m not opinionated; I’m just an ASSHAT!

(I might put that moniker in my permanent description on Hairtell. If James can call himself “God,” I can certainly call myself an “asshat?” Too much?)

#55

Sigh. So you arent opinionated but you are an asshat. Well I suppose everyone needs to identify SOMEWHERE.

Seana

#56

Point of clarification:
James never called himself God.
He referenced a catch phrase in use at the time where in the user would say that he/she was “an (insert sport or profession here) God” And thus, LeBron James could use it to say, “You can’t beat me in a game of 21. I am a Basketball God”. Chesley Sullenberger might say, “You can’t out-pilot me in an airplane. I am an aviation God.” The usage by definition makes no claim to be the one true God, and even assumes that one is not the only profession/sports God in that field. People who know English on a higher level understand the subtle difference between the statements, “I am an electrolysis god” and I am the electrolysis god.

Someone once asked a question like "How can you do what so many others fail miserably to deliver, and James jokingly replied, "Because I am an Electrolysis God! :smiley: " and immediately said, just joking and gave a serious reply thereafter.

Strange how some people blanked out on the “I’m Joking” part and still bring this up nearly a decade later.

#57

4 Month update:

DSC00164_zps5c87c4d8.jpg1024×576

Not much, if any, improvement.

It’s been at least 3 weeks (more like a month maybe) since my last appointment. I won’t have another until at least mid-June.

Would it be safe to begin using Retin-A on the hyperpigmented spots?

#58

Use the lowest possible concentration of retinoic acid in this area. You can have some side effects such as redness and irritation but Retin A help hyperpigmentation disappear faster.

I showed your picture to my son (electrology student), and these were his words: “Mom, if I had done that job with all this % regrowth, you would have made me do it again at no charge to the client.” He’s right. My answer was: “Yes, and the cost of the service would have been deducted from your salary.”

I do not pretend to be better than anyone, but there are things I can not admit. This photo shows a too high % regrowth. The person who has done that work should consider improving her/his technique.

#59

Yesterday I treated one of my favorite clients. I’d done her upper lip recently ( not completely but about 80% cleared) .Yesterday she came for more . I was alarmed to see the amount of regrowth, and confirmed it had been only 4 weeks. Not long enough for true “regrowth” . The number of out of phase hairs is often more than what you think it is, but if you stick with it eventually the “tap runs dry”

Seana

#60

I do not know the conditions under which your client has started her treatments, Seana. But what LDLD´s images tell us is that 1) The hairs had not been touched for a while before starting Electrolysis and 2) The true regrowth is very close to a 80/90%. Anyone with a minimal knowledge of the hair cycle knows that this type of hair (somewhere between fine and intermediate) has a very long period in telogen phase and a very small percentage of hairs in exogenous phase (the only phase in which the treatment is impossible for a first clearance). Therefore, the results of a first clearance represent a 10/20%. Very poor results that a professional who respects himself should not accept.