Question RE: hyperpigmentation (Maybe to Josefa?)

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

So I posted this pic of my PIH recently:

When I look at each ‘dot’ I notice the center is like a dark eschar.

I can’t seem to get it out though. I know I should leave it alone and let it slough off - but it’s been this was since the 28th of January (so a month and a half).

These black dots seem like at part of my since rather than crusts/eschars.

Is it possible that electrolysis, at insertion points, can leave these pinpoint black marks permanently?

I want to stress that I hyperpigmentation in my skin is never black. It’s dark brown.

These black spots don’t seem like PIH…

#2

First of all, an “eschar” is a scab that forms as the result of a burn. This is, indeed, the proper term for post-treatment electrolysis crusts. Well done! However, these cannot last any more than, say, a week to 10 days (in the extreme).

What I’m seeing in your photo is “classic” hyperpigmentation. Two months is not enough time for these marks to disappear. If you have any doubt, consult a dermatologist.

These marks are not going to slough-off, because new pigment is being made and will continue to be made for the next several months. These marks are not “laying on the surface,” they are being generated and will continue to be produced (by the inflammation-stimulated melanocytes).

Actually, the pigment IS being sloughed off daily (as old epidermal cells “die”), but NEW pigment is being made and “injected” into the fresh basal cells (epidermis) every day too! The process is “on-going” until the healing is complete: technically, a year to 18 months for FULL healing … (Although the skin looks totally healed-up in a few weeks. It’s not.)

Can PIH be permanent? In rare cases yes, but the injury is generally much more severe that ANY electrolysis treatment can deliver at ANY level. I have NEVER seen PIH NOT resolve completely (from electrolysis). Permanent PIH sometimes happens when the dermis is burned away; impossible with electrolysis. But even in these extreme cases, the PIH becomes less visible in time.

If this is bothering you, consult with a dermatologist (or a qualified esthetician) and get a product (cream) that will lessen the appearance of the PIH until it resolves on it’s own (6-months or so). Such products are very effective. Get a product with “sun screen” in it, as sun exposure will darken the PIH. You will have to use this product daily for a few months.

If you want, I will give you a guarantee that your PIH will go away … I’ll even “sign it in blood!” tee hee

#3

Dee Dee is thinking : (I have got to put this explanation somewhere prominent here on Hairtell. We get a lot of posts about hyperpigmentation concerns.)

#4

See,I always knew Michael was the devil. He’s signing contracts in blood now!

Seana

#5

Ha! Ha! He’s a good devil with a halo.

#6

So, why do you think I really wear a toupee?

(To hide the horns!) tee hee

#7

To the OP … here’s another way to get a feeling for this.

Consider that you were on the French Riviera for the whole summer and got the deepest tan you’ve ever had. Now, you go home and in a few weeks you start worrying why the tan is not going away. You don’t seem to be able to “wash it off.”

Well, your PIH from electrolysis is beyond the deepest tan you could ever get, and it’s caused by the on-going healing skin (inflammation). It would almost be like continuing to go out it the sun and wondering why you still had a deep tan.

Once the stimulation subsides, the melanocytes settle down and the pigmentation is history.

#8

What body part is this? looks like the inside of the arm at the elbow joint. This is an area of “high risk”. Since this skin is very thin, additional precautions should be taken.

#9

( Yes, Josefa, it is the inside of the arm)

#10

Hi Josefa, yep it’s the inside of the arm.

I explained to my electrologist that the skin her might be extra susceptible to PIH.

She agreed, but at the time I had the area treated, I believe she used the same energy level as with all my other arm areas.

I regret not knowing about this when I had this area treated. (Although, I assumed if any such issues might present themselves, the electrologist will take precautionary measures).

I think for now, I’ll just have to wait and see if they fade.

#11

Hi Michael,

I understand the analogy. However, I’ve had hyperpigmentation (likely dermal-level) from a LHR session 11+ years ago.

Whereas, when I went to Bermuda with my high school lacrosse team, no such tan/hyperpigmentation persisted with me 10+ years later.

However, LHR is not the same as electrolysis, so I definitely understand the issue of PIH will be different.

Question to the pros: when can electrolysis PIH become permanent? If the client goes out in the sun w/o sunblock/etc.?

I have my arms covered up always (plus a coat), so I won’t have that issue.

As to those ‘bumps’/black specks I mentioned:

In some of those specks were hairs that were trying to get out from underneath the skin.

My electrologist had treated them and the area looks a bit better now. There’s still hyperpigmentation but I feel as though this may resolve itself. I’ll just need to wait it out.

#12

I cannot answer your question about laser and (seems to me) the resulting permanent pigmentation. I do know that certain situations can happen where even your own substances (hemoglobin or melanin) can get into the deeper tissues and create a very long-lasting mark. (There is a specific term for this … but, I have forgotten at the moment.) Indeed, this is the goal of the tattoo: getting pigment down into the right layer of skin so it lasts “forever.”

So far, I have never seen such a permanent PIH mark from electrolysis. I would consult with a medical specialist to see what can be done about the post-laser dark patches.

Having a HAIR popping out of the dark spot? “Oy vey ist mir!”

#13

I’ve surrounded in red small dots that look like tiny sebaceous papules.

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#14

This hyperpigmentation will resolve.

You will be fine. It may take six months to a year.

This is how YOUR unique immune system responds when your skin is stimulated by injury.

Gentle daily exfoliation is helpful.

The papules will resolve as well.

I have a female client of East Indian decent who had the same thing happen. I knew the energy levels used were not extreme. She was not overtreated. It is her body’s unique response to electrolysis. I worked on her upper arms in October. I just spent a week with her working on the same area and cleared her upper arms again. Her skin was back to normal before we started five days ago, March 10 th, almost six months later. She just had a few faintly pigmented areas of individually previously treated empty hair follicles. No papules.

Your skin reaction is not your fault nor the fault of your electrologist. It’s just the way it is and will resolve with time.

#15

What body part is this? looks like the inside of the arm at the elbow joint. This is an area of “high risk”. Since this skin is very thin, additional precautions should be taken.[/quote]

Bump.

It’s been about 3 months since I had the session that produced the hyperpigmentation.

The marks are still there and honestly, they don’t seem like they are going away.

Can anyone tell me what circumstances would result in permanent hyperpigmentation from electrolysis?

I feel a little discouraged now.

What adds insult to injury is that the hairs in the picture were faint.

They have even grown back. So I didn’t get rid of the hairs and now I have these ugly blotches on my arm.

This makes me think I can’t get electrolysis on my forearm too since that might be sensitive as well.

#16

just to add to the comment above

i STILL have a spot of hyperpigmentation from a LHR I had a year ago (almost, maybe more like 10 months). I’ve been using retin a on it. Discontinued hydroquinone after reading about the dangers of long-term use.

I have hyperpigmentation from a LHR session I had 11 years ago.

So if anyone could help, what is the honest truth about the circumstances wherein hyperpigmentation from electrolysis is permanent?

I get the feeling from multiple threads asking this same question, that either all of us, clients, are crazy/lying about our situation OR the electrologists are presenting a reality where electrolysis is perfect.

And before we get into the preliminary questions: I do not expose these areas to the sun. I exoliate/wear sunblock anyway. Etc etc

#17

Dear LDLD,

A lot of us have weighed-in on your question and given our opinions, often based on decades of experience. You are asking, “What is the honest truth … “ as if we are trying to be “untruthful” and perhaps even LYING about electrolysis. I’m insulted.

I read through this thread and a lot of us have given good suggestions, but you didn’t react to any of this information; and just kept asking the same question.

I always lay all my cards on the table, and most of us here do too. Unlike a scant few here on Hairtell, I’m not interested in promoting my on-line “persona” so I sometimes seem “prickly,” and this is probably one of those times?

Here’s the thing, you aren’t getting the answer you want, so you keep asking it. At some point you will realize that you “can’t get blood from a stone” and none of us has the “magic answer” for your particular situation. WE DON’T KNOW! Versteh?

Finally, you need to consult with a medical doctor that is a specialist in skin. Why not talk to the laser people that “gave you” the PIH in the first place? Here you might get your answer and the remedy you seek. However, the skin is dynamic and it still holds secrets nobody fully understands.

In 40 years of doing electrolysis and observing PIH on thousands of patients, hyper-pigmentation has always gone away … ALWAYS! What more do you want from me already? I’ve already “signed something in blood,” I think that’s enough!

#18

Hi Michael,

I apologize for my comment that probably does insinuate what you said above.

I meant no disrespect and am grateful for your advice specifically!

But, I was sincerely looking for a hypothetically scenario where you guys think it could happen.

I believe my electrologist used too high settings (relatively speaking) for the area-in-question, as well as lingering a bit in the area for each insertion. Josefa stated that this area is especially sensitive and extra caution should be taken.

So with that in mind, I was wondering if I could expect permanent discoloration.

All this being said (again), you’re right that I’m kind of dragging the topic on when you guys have already given me a lot of thorough responses.

I definitely do not think you guys are lying, and I’m sorry if I offended you.

#19

Well, I’m decidedly irascible in the morning after my two cups of coffee. I mellow-out by the end of the day. It’s probably the Latin blood on caffeine… followed by the “old dude” burn-out? It’s GREAT!

So, to answer your question … I don’t know! The only thing I can say with absolute certitude is that you will die (like all of us). Beyond that, there are always going to be risks … in everything. Let me answer your question by giving you an example.

A 72-year-old high-end woman came in for a consultation at my Montecito office (we’re half a mile from Oprah’s house, so you get the idea). Her face had been “Joan Riversed” like hell, but the skin was still pretty grizzled (not too much you can do about that). She had been tweezing her “seven or eight hairs” for 40 years.

She was terrified that she might “get a scar” from electrolysis and wanted a 100% guarantee. I told her to continue tweezing, that she looked “FABULOUS DAHLING,” and to never RISK the dreaded dangers of electrolysis. She was super happy and drove off in her Rolls (or maybe it was a Bentley, I can never tell the difference).

I would say about the same to you too. If you want a 100% guarantee … DON’T DO ELECTROLYSIS! You aren’t going to die from having hair. As everybody knows on Hairtell, I won’t work on clients that look like a gigantic pain in the “rumpen i vaerre!” I’m not saying that you are … but, I wouldn’t take you as a client.

#20

LDLD how many dermatologists have you consulted with so far for your stubborn PIH? What opinions and course of treatment have they suggested?