I am going for a new consult and the practitioner said she uses a Canadian machine, does anyone know if the Topography is new, good equipment? Also a Instantron the “newest epilator” is that new and good, along the lines of an Apilus or Fisher or Silhouet-Tone??? I don’t want skin damage. One last questions, is a dioper magnification 4.5 adequate to see and work with fine hair. Thanks so much, I want to make good choices since I have some drive time on my hands.
I’ve never heard of Topography for a machine and I’m in Canada, did my research before buying the machine I have.
Instantron I believe is one of the scam devices…but don’t quote me on that one. I know it’s definitely not along the lines of Apilus, Fischer or Silhouet-tone.
4.5 Diopter is definitely not enough to see the fine blonde hairs, I know because that’s what I’m using at the moment until I can afford to buy something better.
James can elaborate I’m sure.
Instantron does not produce, nor sell scam devices. They are made by one of the most trusted families in the electrology manufacturing and supply business.
I have never heard of this topagraphy machine either.
Sorry about that…I think I was mistaking the name Instantron for another device that I almost purchased way back when.
My apologies for the mistake!
Thanks James, I researched the company and they do make the Fisher and Silhouette. One more question, is that level of magnification enough to see the fine hair that ranges from brown to blond? Thank you for your replies.
4.5 diopter is better than a 3 diopter, but not nearly good enough for really fine work. As long as you are not someone who has a problem similar to the middle eastern ladies who have light skin with long dark vellus hairs covering the face, you should be fine.
One more clairification is needed here. Intantron makes a line of epilation machines, they ALSO distribute and sell other manufacturer’s products. So you can buy an Instantron machine direct from the maker, OR you can purchase a Fischer, or Silhouet-Tone via the Instantron Store whick you can find at www.instantron.com
I hope that clears this up now.
[ December 12, 2003, 05:44 AM: Message edited by: James W. Walker VII, CPE ]
I have light skin and fine light to medium brown vellus mixed with a few darker ones from previous poor treatment (i.e. tweezed). What should I look for with magnification from the operator during a consultation??
Hello. I have set up another consultation and was just wondering what I should look for for magnification, I have light skin and fine vellus hair that is light with some medium brown with a few darker ones mixed in. Thanks again, I know the person has a newer machine, but I want to ensure the best magnification as most do not have this. What would be the minimally acceptable magnification? I appreciate the assistance.
I’m not a professional electrologist, but just finished researching magnification for my amateur efforts. I can offer this input:
Diopters are not a complete definition of magnification. The diopters mean a certain ratio of magnification is allowed, but does not mean that’s the magnification the user is actually experiencing.
For finer hair, I believe you will want to look for an operator who has invested in at least a good quality binocular loupe. These make it look like the operator is wearing a pair of mini telescopes on his or her head. Do a web search for “binocular loupe” and you will see what I mean. The best, as others have noted, is a “surgical telescope”. Both binocular loupes and surgical telescopes are rated by their magnification, not their diopters, which is a characteristic of an individual lens, not a lens set such as found in a microscope, binocular, and so on.
Having used a magnifying lamp, a simple head mounted loupe, and a moderate quality binocular loupe, I can’t imagine a busy electrologist using any of the three on a daily basis.
So instead of asking what diopters they’re using, I would ask what magnification equipment they use. If it’s a magnifying lamp or a non binocular loupe, I would be surprised if they had the magnification to work on fine hairs. If they’ve invested in good equipment, they’ll probably be very proud of it.
Hope that helps,
All of you are neglecting the fact each of us has different vision. Some wear glasses and some do not. Those who wear glasses use a different magnification than others. You people are more concerned with magnification than CORRECT LIGHTING and the vision of the operator.
When magnification is high the operator has to bend forward over the treatment area and this is extremely tiring, consequently, it reduces efficacy and the number of hairs removed in one session. If the hair is so fine and blonde that it is difficult to see at a distance you stand when conversing with others it should not be a problem to the patient. If patients expect to have the treated area devoid of all blonde vellus hair…perhaps they are expecting too much and have been “OVERSOLD” as to the expectations of the procedure. We are not performing MIRACLES. We merely remove hair. It is a medical procedure and NO DOCTOR GUARANTEES HIS/HER WORK, THEREFORE, NEITHER SHOULD WE. WE DO THE BEST WE CAN AND IF THE ELECTROLOGIST’S BEST IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH…FIND ANOTHER ELECTROLOGIST.
Regarding machines… They all have to conform to AMERICAN STANDARDS but if they are Canadian machines…I have no idea what standards they have to meet or if they are legal in the U.S.A. Each electrologist buys the machine they like best or one they trained on in school. This has NO BEARING ON THE QUALITY OF THE WORK PERFORMED. REMEMBER…NOT ALL OF US GRADUATED AT THE TOP OF THE CLASS.
Machines are advertised as “NEW…IMPROVED” JUST LIKE DIETS AND CARS. Changes in machines over the years have been minimal because they have to deliver the same heat at the same frequency. The skill of the electrologist, years of experience, hours of instruction, and Board Certification are more important than whether the machine is new or old. Electrologists have latched on to the 4 most important words in marketing…NEW, IMPROVED, FREE, and SEX.
Newer does not mean better. Unfortunately patients have fallen for this too because electrologists have told unknowing patients they have the “newest” machine when patients and electrologists know little about what is inside this box. More dials do NOTHING for the patient. Skill of the electrologist means more.
</font><blockquote><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”>quote:</font><hr /><font size=“2” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”>Originally posted by Harvey Grove, LE, CPE:
<strong>All of you are neglecting the fact each of us has different vision. Some wear glasses and some do not. Those who wear glasses use a different magnification than others. You people are more concerned with magnification than CORRECT LIGHTING and the vision of the operator.
When magnification is high the operator has to bend forward over the treatment area and this is extremely tiring, consequently, it reduces efficacy and the number of hairs removed in one session. If the hair is so fine and blonde that it is difficult to see at a distance you stand when conversing with others it should not be a problem to the patient. If patients expect to have the treated area devoid of all blonde vellus hair…perhaps they are expecting too much and have been “OVERSOLD” as to the expectations of the procedure. We are not performing MIRACLES. We merely remove hair. It is a medical procedure and NO DOCTOR GUARANTEES HIS/HER WORK, THEREFORE, NEITHER SHOULD WE. WE DO THE BEST WE CAN AND IF THE ELECTROLOGIST’S BEST IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH…FIND ANOTHER ELECTROLOGIST.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size=“2” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”>
Whoops! I guess I didn’t do the quote thing properly for this post.I’m still a computer neophyte.
I was trying to highlight the part in your statement about magnification and working close, bending over, fatigue,etc.
Harvey, the above statement isn’t true if you have certain brands of magnification. Two that come to mind are through the lens telescopes (I use these) from orascoptic reseach and one brand of Zeiss opticals. They are expensive, but I wouldn’t be without them.
With my telescopes I can see blond hairs perfectly well and they are adjusted and fitted especially for me by the rep. I can adjust them to work 13" - 16" away from my client. I have great body mechanics with no backache, stiff neck. I can easily treated 20 clients back to back without needing a massage after work.
I agree that there is not a need to treat all blond hair and I don’t do it-- just the longer, crazy looking ones are what I go after. Or I will thin out an area that has copious amounts of fine blond hair. Oh, and I tell the client to throw away that 10X magnifying mirror.
I am not asking to treat every single hair short fine hair. I just want the hair with pigment and the longer blond hair removed. It is definitely brown in most lighting, you can see it quite a bit and there are darker ones mixed in. When it is removed, it has a dark root and is noticeably pigmented. People have a strong reaction to hair on a woman and Mr. Harvey, I think you need to be more sensitive to that. If I can see it, others can see it and why should I have the psychological trauma of walking around with it. Magnification is important because when I have consults with people with better magnification, I do not feel tweezing. Also, I have had treatment with both old and new equipment and the newer equipment did not leave horrible, unacceptable scabbing like the older equipment. Back to the orginal question, is there a minimum amount of magnification I should look for and has anyone out there in Ohio or Michigan had experience treating fine hair that I could talk to and talk to clients with a similar problem who are done and happy? Thanks again for your assistance.
I treat all colors and sizes of hair. A hair is hair to me no matter what the situation is, thin, blonde, brown, dark, deep, etc.
I have clients that are done and happy who have agreed to talk to anyone, as other consumers have requested this same information from time to time.
You are correct in pursuing this information. And yes, newer epilators and proper magnification and lighting source DOES matter. However, be mindful that it’s the operator’s skill that is of utmost importance, so those that are very skilled and experience can give you an excellent outcome,too, using older equipment.
I already described my surgical telescopes above. They are 3.8 and work wonderfully well.
I just happen to believe that you move forward and modernize equipment if there is something better for the consumer.
You can privately e-mail me if you wish, but I would certainly encourage you to find the most qualified person, conveniently located to you, as you will probably need several treatments up
Thank you dfahey for your response, exactly what I am saying. I have done a ton of research and you are so right, skill is crucial but the skin definitely does better with newer equipment as the energy is more concentrated at the tip and magnification is crucial. It never ceases to amaze me how when I go for a consult the machine is maybe 20-30 years old, come on, the new machines are not that expensive and equipment is not that expensive either. We as consumers pay top dollar for this procedure and place our trust in someone to use the best equipment and have good skill. So, would it be okay for a doctor to operate with ancient, archaic tools and say, well thats okay. A professional is expected to keep up with the times and newer equipment is designed to reduce skin damage. That is very important as well. I am required in my field to keep up on training every year so I know that latest treatment protocols and expectations, and I do not even get paid half of what an electrologist does. I totally appreciate the positive feedback from professionals making an effort to provide the best service out there, thank you dfahey for the feedback. I have to say though, I am shocked at the lack of adequately trained professionals that have the right tools to do this job. I have had many consults and I am so shocked with the ancient equipment, dirty offices, lack of knowledge. Many get offended if you ask basic questions. I am not lumping all electrologist in that category. I am just being honest about what I see. As a consumer, struggling with an embarassing problem that causes significant DEPRESSION and STRESS, I was just hopeful that there is someone out there with the right tools and equipment that could help me. Thank you for listening and further help/referrals are appreciated per my previous request.
Hi Suziegirl. Perhaps you wanted to say “Tapeography”. I think you can find information about Tapeography in:
Francisca Rodriguez Ubeda
[ December 21, 2003, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: franteruel ]