It seems that most LHR practioners, which are primarily run by physicians, insist on pricing by area. This is okay for people who have one or two areas treated from the beginning to the last treatment. But, is it fair to charge these full prices to treat the re-growth 6 to 12 months later when the growth is very sparse? I think NOT. I have actually been ripped off more by cost per area than by time in the past. Two of the more dedicated LHR practioners are more of a LHR Center who charge by the time, and it seems to work fine. I would like to hear what other people have to say about this.
On an additional note, I have built a LHR cost analysis spreadsheet to help me compare prices. It always shows area pricing is terribly higher than time pricing. I wish I had more time to develop it into a program for consumers to use. The way it works is you enter the spot size area, pulse rate and pricing method and it calculates cost per area, pulse, second and minute. In addition it calculates the area covered per pulse, second or minute. I set it up with a whole bunch of capabilities.
that would be nice, but since it’s free market, most choose to do it whichever way they like. you have a good point and sometimes it’s possible to discuss this with your clinic and possibly get a lower price down the line; sometimes it’s even built into their model.
So take your cost analysis. What you need to take into account is the following considerations (as an example).
Time for repositioning (both equipment and person)
Time for applying and removing gel
Time for prepping and marking
Time for dealing with a client who wants to take a second between shots to recover.
And what if they want to stop and go to the bathroom?
These are just some of the problems.
But there is even a bigger problem that you can’t put into your calculations. It goes something like this.
“But my friend Judy only had to pay $XX for her legs and we are practically the same size.” Trying to explain that her friend Judy is two inches shorter and has 3 inches less circumference on her legs and this translates into 1,000 less pulses is extremely difficult and sometimes ultimately not accepted. Then what do you do?
Every place I have seen that uses time base pricing ultimately ends up costing more in the long run, until you get to the situation you describe where there is only a few stray hairs. But most good places will have some sort of differential pricing for that situation or do those treatments based on total number of pulses.
You missed why I created it. The calculator is only there to compare pricing between providers and lasers, not a means to determine how they arrived at their pricing. In addition, the calculator can identify the cost effectiveness between lasers. I know there is overhead, but when you see a difference of $71.00 and $500.00 for treating the chest, you know something is not right. The first price of $71 is part of a time package where the $500 was charged on the chest area for every treatment. They rented the laser and did treatments only several days out of the month in dermatologist office. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist see the difference. Fortunately for me I have a strong science, engineering and business background. Doctor centric LHR businesses with limited days of operation (2-3 days a week or less) and working out of expensive digs seem to be consistent with high prices and charging by area. I don’t need an expensive doctor and pampering to get my results, only a good experience CT will do.
The only two practioners, who I used in the past, charge by time and are lenient with the time. A problem I had with one practioner is that he charged me for my full legs, but drop the fluence settings below the optimal levels needed for permanent results in order to increase the spot size to cover more area per time. He said that he didn’t want to spend much time on treating me. Using settings that low were determined to be completely useless and did not create permanent results. That is flat-out scamming me out of my money. When I go in for treatment I don’t waste any time. I am totally different from the patient you describe.
I position my body quickly for optimal access for the CT
I do not need anything for pain - never used gel or anything.
I arrive already grided to save time and not waste it.
I can be lasered from neck to toe without the need to stop.
I use the bathroom before the treatment.
I ask the CT to not leave the room for me to get undress - too much time is lost waiting for them to come back into the room.
My treatments go so quickly and smoothly the LHR Center wanted to use me for training videos. Too late now, Most of the hair is gone.
Charging by time, allows for treatments to be concentrated into areas needing more pulses than others. So, I have sparse hair on my lower leg. Are you going to charge me for the full area? I would say charging by pulse would be the best, but there again it will take more or less pulses to do one area of the body from person to person. Also, taking into account overlap percentage.
This is why I made the post. I would like to hear the pros and cons of the different pricing methods. But, I will have to say being scammed out of my money by being charged per area has left a bad taste in my mouth.
Oh, I forgot to add that I have tried to negotiate some kind of price break for my situation, with some practioners. Only a couple have accommodated me. Most of them seem to have never developed a price schedule for those who need some cleanup after the completion of the initial TXs, what I call see-n-treat or spot treatment sessions. Some just call it touchup as in the follow-up treatment to get missed hairs. I believe some people give up after their determined number of TXs for expected results and never bother to go back. If a situation doesn’t present itself, the business practices will not integrate it.
There is only one practioner who offered both pricing. One being charged by area, but he offered what he called a subscription for year of unlimited treatments for $3,900. I liked the subscription offer. Unfortunately, he made me feel uncomfortable. He also cheated me on my first treatment with bad settings and method. His schedule for available appointments was very limited, too. More significantly, I was done with most of my treatments. Again, the practioner’s pricing didn’t fairly cover my condition or level of treatment.
There is no such thing as a perfect system. Any system can be gamed. All I can say is that the way you describe your approach is not the way most people come in to the office. And a system has to be set up that works the best for everyone.
We’ve been charging by the site since 1997 and modified and tweaked our system for several years to get it as best we could. Is it perfect. Probably not but I think it is as good a system as one can use. I have yet to see one that I think is better. And we’ve done over 350,000 treatments using it.
But we also include significantly reduced pricing for supplemental treatments (what you call touchups) and have payment by smaller areas (4X4) and spot treatments. I think those are necessary for site treatments.
Reading your reply and doing some thinking, what you are saying makes sense. I now see the difference. It is the fact that you have been in the business for a long time. None of the charge-by-site practioners I have referenced seem to have enough experience or are new to the business to the point that they have never performed cleanup treatments for someone like me. I think many people just give up and never go back. So, a practioner may never see that client again, therefore, never expanding the pricing system for that need. Also, I notice all of the charge-by-site practioners only operate two or may three days a week. I consider that a part time business and you have to ask yourself it they are experienced enough to get the job done right. The two charge-by-time practioners I have used are a five day per week operation. And no, they were not experienced enough for me to give them my business.
The longest practicing LHR businesses in my area charge per the time and are the lowest in pricing. They also offer the most experience out of the rest. So, why do they charge by time and not site like the others who are new to the business. I believe the practioners who charge by time due it for several reasons. a person can buy a big package for let’s say a married couple or mother/daughter to use. Another means I have seen the time used is for transferring to other treatments offered by the practioner
Yes, my approach is totally unique to everyone else. With my business and technical sense, I can use that to quantify it and make a good choice. Most consumers/clients don’t care and then complain down the road after making a bad decision. Don’t get me wrong - I have also made a few mistakes along the path of LHR. This hair removal process is still considered new by many people with it being around since the mid 1990s. But, you guys are missing my point. The method I created is a way to compare pricing of all the competition in the region. That says nothing about the quality of service which I value almost as much and evaluate separately. All I have done is compare the pricing and uncovered an obvious trend. Let’s say you are shopping around for LHR treatments. How would you compare practioners who each use site, time or pulse pricing? That was the challenge presented to me and I found an answer.
I would be curious to see what your price schedule is like. It sounds like you have a model to which others could use. How many days a week does your practice operate?
Is there anyone out there who would like to speak up in defense of charge-by-time or charge-by-pulse?
My hat off to you, SSLHR, for adapting to the needs of your clients.
Zanrico
I would be curious to see what your price schedule is like. It sounds like you have a model to which others could use. How many days a week does your practice operate?
Thanks for the kind words.
We are not a practice, we are a business and operate 6 locations at present. We do laser hair removal 5 days a week (to include Saturday).
A price schedule for us doesn’t really make sense since we have different types of pricing. Let me give an example using underarms.
The basic price of underarms is $79 (for both). This is the price for the first five treatments. The sixth treatment is free and all subsequent treatments are $19 (this is to help clean up any last hairs that are remaining).
But this does not reflect the discounts for multisite, prepayment, or buying a package. So pricing can vary tremendously depending on what you want to do and how you want to pay. But the price list above is the max and does not reflect any promotions. Though I do think our Dallas prices are a touch higher because salaries and rents are just a touch higher.
One other thing to consider in your analysis from a business perspective is how you justify to a client who is twice as big as her friend, why she is paying twice as much for her legs. Bikinis, underarms, and faces are not that significantly different, but legs are. It would be nice if you could just say, because you are twice as big. But that doesn’t always go over very well.
Wow, I don’t think I have ever seen such expanded pricing like yours. That is impressive. You have definitely put careful thought and effort into it. Too bad you guys are not around me for you to do my treatments. I am in the Cincinnati region and suspect you are much further away.
Yes, I would absolutely agree that it would cost a little more money to treat a larger person with a per time price. That is the price we pay for having the bodies with which we are born. More area means more work. I can’t argue with that if the practioner charges by the time. But, still the price comparison only pertains to me and all the competitors and their pricing in the region. Body surface area is hard to calculate anyway. I have been working on body surface area calculations in a toxic chemical dermal exposure, so I know it is difficult. Unless, customers compare notes charge-by-time would never be challenged.
I had the most unfortunate experience today calling a practioner, who had forgotten to call me with prices for my level of treatment. She could not give me any prices even after a consultation. In addition, she became rude after I kindly asked her if she had come up with any pricing. She said that she didn’t have any time to do it. It was clear she didn’t want to put the effort forth to meet the needs of the client. It had been over three weeks. They proved to me that they were not experienced enough for me to do business with them. They wanted to under treat me anyway which is a grade ‘F’ in my book. Not making the effort to offer the proper treatment for permanent results is just raping the consumer. Also, the condition and location of the office was not good at all. It had a horrible smell. The neighborhood looked run-down and crime ridden. The office was a mess and unorganized. All of this is a big red flag to stay away. Why do businesses insist on driving away people like that. It might be that they didn’t like that I am an educated patient. It makes it hard to pull fast ones on smart consumers. I have seen too much unprofessional conduct in both LHR and electrolysis in my region. I was told by some other professionals this is not surprising.
“What? ARE YOU SAYING I’M FAT???”
That’s funny, but I have to be clear. I never said that. lol