Please back up your statements Fino Gior

I started this thread just for Fino Gior’s proof of the following statement that he made, “It has now been found that after 5 years of laser hair removal all the hair grows back plus more !! It stimulated surrounding hair follicles to grow hair. (Dr. Ranella Hirsch, Photomedicine, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, & Mitchell Goldman, M.D., LaJolla, California.) May 2003”.
I found no such document or statement by these doctors on your website that you advertise in all your posts, and I would like to see the SMOKING GUN, once and for all, that shows a study by either of these Professionals that concludes that all areas treated by laser will have total regrowth in five years plus new hairs from dormant follicles that were stimulated by the treatment. I look forward to your post of these documents, or a statement by either Doctor. Thank you Mr. Gior. Also, if anyone knows how to contact Dr. Hirsch or Dr. Goldman directly, I would like to see if we could get them to respond personally on this Forum to this important news that Mr. Gior is attributing to them.

Timothy F. Kirn, Sacramento Bureau is the author of Laser Hair Removal May Backfire in “Skin & Allergey News” The Leading Independent Newspaper for Dermatologists. June 2003 - Volume 34 - Number 6
He quotes: Dr. Ranella Hirsch’s findings about after laser the area gets more hair then before treatment. She quotes 12 to 100 cases where this is true with many types of lasers used.

Lauren McCann, Beauty Editor of “Cooking Light” quotes Mitchell Goldman, MD of the LaJolla Spa, California; “Laser hair removal last long, but isn’t permanent. Typically 90 percent of your hair will go away for three to four years and the treatment must be repeated”.

You would have to contact these doctors or these wirters and ask for the research. I do not know these doctors. You have to contact them for more information. Let us know!

Oh, I see, You are talking about that article in skin and allergy news. I find your interpretation of that article extremely agenda laden and lopsided. It reminds me of the way people interpret the Bible to suit their own personal view point. Your paraphrasing of that study is so warped and misleading that I don’t believe it is possible for us to have a constructive discussion. I just hope you don’t report your own success as an electrologist through the same “logic filter” that you use in your attempts to discredit laser. By the way, I believe the woman you are refering to, Dr. Hirsh, practices hair removal with laser. If she thought it was doing more harm than good…I’m through!

If this were true, all guys with male pattern baldness would be getting their scalps blasted with Apogees and Lightsheers and the plastic surgeons and dermatologists that do hair transplants would be out of business.

I don’t think so!


Geez, Redhead, everytime I read something you write, you always sound so angry. I am an electrologist and I don’t know what the real truth or fiction is about laser as of this date. All I can tell you is this website is tremendously useful in helping me sort out what the bottom line seems to be concerning laser’s effectiveness (or lack of effectiveness) because real consumers write about their experiences. Hopefully they are telling it like it is.
I already know about electrolysis’s safety and effectiveness record because that is what I do all day and I see results on my clients.
I think laser is really exciting and hope that there will be good clinical studies from major universities, untainted by any laser manufacturers. That is what any fo us who deal with unwanted hair or treat unwanted hair are looking forward to someday.
In the meantime, it would be very helpful not to have a war of words being exchanged every other week. Andrea, It would also be helpful to have a catagory on this website called “Laser Research” where anyone who makes a statement claiming laser can do this or that, could back it up with an article in a respected peer-reviewed journal. Are there any clinical studies being performed on long term safety and effectiveness of laser, as we speak, that laser manufacturers aren’t paying for??? If laser is in the future we need factual information both as practioners and consumers from reliable, respected sources.

I am seeing at least one client a week who gave up on laser for their hair problem. The lady that came into my office today claimed her face was still scarred from 3 treatments she had a year ago. I saw some skin manifestation, but honestly it didn’t strike me as being too bad. I wasn’t too impressed with her statement, but she definitely had a lot of hair, dark and coarse on her chin and upper lip. Two of my clients swore that laser stimulated more hair to grow. Are they imaging this as people imagine that shaving caused more hair to grow? I don’t know. I listen to the consumer and tuck it away in the back of my head. Not knowing the science behind these conclusions leaves me sitting on the fence waiting for the science to catch up with the statements.

Why shouldn’t I shout down a professional electrolysist who continually tries to inflict fear into consumers on a laser section of the forum. Imagine being someone that has invested their faith and money in laser treatments, you are happy with the results, but wait… some electrolygist with his fancy credentials comes on and starts telling you that prominant doctors have shown proof that all you hair will grow back, plus more, 5 years down the road. This would cause a consumer FEAR. A very unpleasant feeling. Then you check up on the facts ,and realize that the Electrolysist is completely misrepresenting the truth, and misquoting his sources…this might lead to anger. Do you really not see this? As for your patients that have had problems with laser, are you ignorant to haw many posts involve people who are now getting laser after electrology failed them? Why don’t you just let CONSUMERS freely discuss their laser experiences on the LASER SECTION and stop pushing your agenda down everyone’s throat.

Thanks redhead for your response. It would be helpful if you could lead me to respected, unbiased research about laser hair removal for effectiveness and safety. I am very hungry for this information and not having a degree in library science hinders me from finding good information easily. Consumer response and exchange on this website is all I have to learn about laser. Perusing this good consumer information has become a personal hobby for me. The medical field sure doesn’t seem to bother with the science of all this, so this is all I have as a professional electrologist.

The paying consumer needs and deserves this information, too. I have asked a representative from The American Academy of Dermatologists for their position statement on the safety and effectiveness of laser hair removal and never got a response. Maybe you know of a way to get this information.

I have a passion, not an agenda. My passion is helping my clients solve their unwanted hair problems. I will use whatever modality that achieves this result. Right now it’s electrolysis. Electrolysis has a 130 year
track record for safety and effectiveness. No more proof is needed. Time equaling results is proof. Period.
Laser is the new kid. We are all interested in learning more about the new kid. Redhead, please present scientific data so I may be convinced that I will do no harm to my clients in providing them with a faster alternative for their unwanted hair problem. I will gladly do laser for my clients when these questions are resolved fully.
It really isn’t necessary to get so angry. Insults bore me to death. In addition to all the consumer responses about laser on this website, could you help me find good scientific information about laser hair removal?

Thank you, Redhead

I don’t know how to help you there, as I’m not up on a lot of data about laser either. Some of my knowledge has come from reading the posts on this forum, and cross referencing the facts or statements they make. Most of my information comes from my own personal experience as a consumer. I have posted my experience at legnth, but in short I was mislead by the laser industry early on by over promised results from treatments starting six years ago and ending about 4 and 1/2 years ago. I haved different shades of red hair, and starting about 3 years ago, doctors finally started admitting to me that laser was not really that effective on my type of hair. I guess the might have gotten duped by laser companies themselves. The results I got were a reduction in size, legnth coarseness, and pigment, that I was pretty happy with ultimately, but disappointed in terms of what they promised me. I decided that I would get electrology to achieve my desired results and again felt like I was overpromised in terms of how long it was taking to get results, how much it was costing, how much it hurt, and how much damage it was doing to my skin. I had to stop after about 4 treatments because I could no longer take it. I felt that it was not a viable option for me because even if it could ultimately lead to effective hair removal the gauntlet was imposible. In other words the theory of permanent hair removal for large areas might be sound, but the reality of it (for me) was physically, emotionally, timewise, and financially impossible. I received no further treatments of any kind for three years until I came to this Forum and heard about the Aurora and it’s possible effectiveness on my color hair. I read RJC2001’s posts and decided on his advice to get a patch test. I think that was over 5 months ago, and it still looks amazing. During that time I started treatments on my beard (an area that was untreated except for one treatment with the Diode that was pretty traumatic and nearly ineffective over 3 years ago.) So far I am seeing great results, and found the treatment so benign that even those closest to me don’t know I am having hair reduction. Of coarse it is new technology, and we’ll see about long term results. I will post them honestly, and If I start to see the treatments fail, I will not be too proud to admit it. By the way, my arms which were only treated with laser over five years ago have been stable since the 6 month mark. Despite Fino’s guarantee of a horrible jackpot of new hair, I still have the same somewhat satisfactory results I had since the begining.

Oh, I forgot, about 2 and 1/2 years ago I got a patch test done with a Microwave Laser by a company called MWMD. It was supposed to work well on my color hair. I still have a big scar on my neck from the patch test. Had I access to a Forum like this it would not have happened. On last thing, the areas that were treated with electroysis seemed to show better results on areas that had laser treatments first.

Hi again readhead. You sound like an honest person and I know your future posts about laser will be very helpful to all of us.
I don’t understand why researchers are not conducting clinical studies as removal of unwanted hair can generate billions of dollars, which is a huge incentive to perfect something like laser. They certainly take an interest in studying a medicine for 10 years and investing millions, sometimes billions, into one type of pill. All this happens before the consumer is out there paying thousands of dollars for that product. Can’tunderstand why laser hair removal was not
studied the same way a pill or topical is studied before market.
Doctors are scientists. They look at the best up-to-date reliable data to make informed decsions for their patients. As a lowly, humble electrologist, I, too, am hesitant for now to join the laser hype until I see better data. I think that is why I can’t get an answer from the American Academy of Dermatologists - maybe they don’t know the answers to safety and effectiveness questions either. So, they don’t have a prepared position statement. Hmmmmm.
You are right about something. Laser manufacturers do overpromise and some doctors are right next to them overpromising, too. Laser is very lucrative. When an actual patient visit costs $100, but the physician only gets paid $50, offering laser in his/her office can make up that finacial difference so overhead expenses can be met. That’s pretty attractive.
Hopefully, the next generation of lasers will be better than the last. I have always believed that laser in conjunction with electrolysis might make a good team. Disabling many hair follicle at once- PERMANENTLY with laser sounds good to me. Electrolysis can pinpoint and permanently remove the more stubborn hair permanently after that.

Bottomline is, I need more information. I will err on the conservative side for now so as not to do harm to anyone.

Back to work for me! Take care redhead.

I have a feeling that the laser companies balk at proper scientific studies because lasers are not as predictable and effective as they would have the public believe. Until someone forces them to, why would they. This doesn’t mean that lasers don’t work, they just don’t always seem to work like the press releases. I think it just means Forums like these are an important tool to help consumers and doctors sift through the bull. While this Forum is not a scientific study, at least it is not being funded by the laser companies.

URL to published clinical studies re: LHR

Thanks for posting that, blast! I will note that my list of clinical studies hasn’t been updated in a while, and the “Laser Library” is mostly trade publication articles and PR from when the site owner used to sell lasers for her dad.

I separated the legitimate info on the laser library from the PR here:

One of these days I’ll add some of the newer work on lasers, but anyone who wants to look into it themselves can always do a little research on PubMed:

It takes a little while to get the hang of searches, but in time you’ll be a pro!

I just skimmed over the PubMed website on hair removal. This will keep me busy for a while as this is the type of information I have been looking for. There are many articles with a 2003 date. Data from 1995-2001 era doesn’t impress me anymore. I really wanted the latest studies. Thank you Andrea for the PubMed information, especially.

Thanks Andrea, there seems to be a lot of new information here that is more current then the studies listed on this Forum. The ones I’ve looked at so far paint a very rosey picture, and I’m wondering if there is a way to tell if they are funded by,say, a laser company, or if they are “peer reviewed”? Also if any one finds an article with follow up studies ONE YEAR after treatment please report on it. So far I have seen six months… but I just started looking.