Permanent damage... can it be reversed?

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

I was just curious, in the unlikely event of having permanent damage from LHR can scars, pigment changes and burns be reversed through other dermatological treatments? Is there any adverse effect from LHR that cannot be corrected?

I know they say that permanent damage is rare but how rare is it really? Is permanent damage mostly caused my using an inappropriate laser for someone’s skin type or using too high of a setting or a combination of both?

I’ve always been so paranoid about this whole process! I’m skin type 2 and I’ve been treated with Gentlelase at 18J and 20J with a 18mm spot size with no adverse effects whatsoever. Is there any reason to think additional treatments at 20J, 18mm spot size will cause any kind of permanent damage?

Thanks!

#2

Have never seen any permanent damage from LHR yet. Some people think they have something permanent, but then they realize that it went away like most superficial burns. Just takes a few months sometimes. With your skin type, there is really nothing to worry about in my opinion. You’ve already been treated at highest settings possible, i.e. the most powerful treatments.

#3

I was just hoping I could maybe get a bit more information on the likelihood of permanent damage resulting from LHR. Is the risk almost non existent for light skin/dark hair individuals being treated with the right laser? I’ve been told that lightening of the skin is not fixable, does this only happen in darker skinned people? Are there statistics on the number of cases documented with permanent damage? I’m having a difficult time trusting this process despite the fact that I have had 2 treatments with no adverse effects and the amount of information I have read on LHR. Is there anyway I can get more reassurance that nothing will go wrong or will I just need to have another treatment done to find out for myself?

Thanks for reading and any advice would be greatly appreciated!

#4

Of course the skin can have permanent damage. Often damaged takes years to see. Hypo, hyperpigmentaion and splotchy skin is a definite risk.

#5

Don’t stress Zesty. : ).

I can tell you i have had permanent damage maybe 6 years ago because i am a III/IV and i had an idiot use a diode at a very high energy level on the darkest part of my body. it was the wrong laser for my skin for SURE and the woman was an idiot. And at the time she was doing it, i noticed it felt wrong. I didn’t know if it was normal but in hindsight, omgoodness, it was so obvious i was being straight up burned. As soon as it was over she was nervous as hell and ran to get ice packs. My point is, the only time i got perm damage it was evident right away there was a problem. And yes, it was lightening of the skin which as far as i know, is pretty irreversible.

I’ve seen people on realself.com show their problems, but those problem surfaced day 1.

But even with risks for everyone, it is dark people who are at the most risk, at 2nd at risk is people who go to novices for LHR. You are probably the least at risk group (light skin, right laser, experienced individual).

I know many not-dark women who have had lhr, and am on another board with many other women who have had lhr and none have said anything about damage. (the only 1 i have heard said anything burned herself with a Tria home diode, and no idea if that healed, it certainly may have).

One set of marks (hyper, not hypo pigmentation, meaning dark marks, not the lightening of skin) that i got that went away was yeeears ago when i was involved in a study for lhr, (it was reeeealy new at the time) and they went away.

and then i got another set of marks on my dark skin with again, (again, darkeing, not the lightening) an inexperienced person when laser was relatively new, saw the marks day 2 after my first session, it went right away. And again, i’m dark, the most at risk group.

actually, I have damage on my face from a stupid electrologist 15 years ago. There are risks in everything. And i know that’s not laser, but again, i knew there was a problem at that time, i got up before the session was over and walked out. it felt so wrong. Very wrong, no question about it.

Feel safe, i would if i were your case, even after all the problem i personally have had in the past.

#6

Thanks for the responses!

I do realize that I am the perfect candidate for LHR, I’m being treated by a qualified practitioner,the right laser is being used and I’ve already been treated at the highest setting. I just still feel that I am at risk, although I have no idea what that risk level that would be. Like I said, I’ve just been really paranoid about this whole process! Thanks, I appreciate the advice.

If there is any information anyone could recommend that I could read to ease my anxiety over this procedure it would be greatly appreciated.

#7

I understand your concerns, but you really shouldn’t be this concerned. Thsouands of people get treated daily. Very few have any side effects at all, and those that do result from treating darker skin at high settings. It is a bit of a paranoia :slight_smile: You already know that you can be treated at the highest settings with no adverse effects (as long as you don’t tan the area of course). You will be completely fine.

Permanent damage is extremely rare. We’ve had laser providers here say they have never seen it in 10+ years. Often people think it’s permanent and then come in 2 years later and realize it wasn’t. Either way, this doesn’t apply to anyone with your skin type.

#8

We really dont have the long term stats on that yet. I definitely have hypo pigmented areas post laser. I am feeling kind of nervous to expose my skin to sun now thats its been into the second year without any due to laser use…

#9

LHR has now been around for 20 years. Millions of treatments have been performed. Studies are typically done to determine something that’s in someone interest as they require funding. This type of thing is difficult to find funding for.

However, we also have to be careful about associating things with laser. When you say you have hypo pigmentation from laser as a type 2-3, how long after the treatment did it appear and how long has it been since it appeared? Like I said before, most of these things resolve. Can take a year even in some cases or longer, but they go away. Unless you’re doing a very careful study where you’re taking photos of every area before treatment and after treatment etc, it’s hard to definitively say what is caused by laser and what is permanent.

I’m curious what settings and on what machine you were treated on a type 2 skin to cause pigmentation issues? That’s very rare with good treatments. Were you tanned? What’s your ethnic background?

#10

Well LAgirl, since you are LHR client like me ,and not a laser expert I dont know that I want do all the work to restate all the details regarding my LHR history ,in order to try prove my experience regarding hypo pigmentation post laser. All of those details were already written on so many other threads.

Basically I KNOW my body and I KNOW that definite large patches of hypo pigmentation occurred following LHR. In other treated areas my skin overall looks just splotchier so I will just assume that those areas are ok though I will draw more accurate conclusions ,once those parts are re exposed to sunlight after being hidden for over a year. I can only hope you are right that these areas will resolve over time however hypo pigmentation usually is a tricky one.
I really am more of a 2, my skin looks quite pale, and I was not at all tanned, though some areas of skin are naturally darker of course.
It showed up after Lightsheer and the settings i was told as 41 3 10 and sometimes told 41 auto, i am not quite sure what these numbers mean, nor if these are strong settings? Hope this info helps in some way?

#11

Auto means the pulse width is generally half the joules number. Was it a 12mm or a 9mm LightSheer machine? Those are pretty high settings on the 12mm version.

We need to avoid making blanket statements here to newbies. It’s not very helpful to talk about something that happens once every 100,000 procedures because of an incompetent practitioner as if it happens to every other person daily. That’s simply not the case.

#12

Thanks for the info . I share my experience and say what i have to say, weather a newbie or a pro is reading so be it. I cant control my communication to please you , as what comes out is what i need to share. It is by open and honest sharing that alot of the BS will get exposed and we can learn , or perhaps help another avoid the mistakes others have learned the hard way.

By the way did you catch this quote by michael Bono in another topic…

"One interesting fact, however, is the following: There were two physicians in Santa Barbara that were the “laser hair removal kings.” They have both discontinued this service.

Dr. Gross is a friend and I asked him about this. He said he “would never touch laser again! Too many problems and complaints from patients.” He is, by the way, a leading “plastic and reconstructive surgeon” in my town (you know, the real deal), so he absolutely does NOT need the additional income from laser hair removal. He does surgery, and is at the top of his game."

#13

MDs know less, not more about laser hair removal. It’s not taught in med school. And they don’t have the time to educate themselves on it or perform it themselves. Whatever LHR they did at those offices was done by whoever they hired. The only thing that tells me is that those people were incompetent or the downsides were simply not worth it (i.e. most don’t even know that you can’t just treat anyone with any type of hair or skin when they get into it). There are risks with every medical procedure and non-medical services when customers are involved. Ask any doctor how much they pay for malpractice insurance. Our country is sue-happy.

MDs get involved in LHR because it seems like easy money to them, without having to deal with insurance. Then they find out it’s not that easy (just like anything else in the medical field). This is not shocking information.

#14

Good point!

#15

I‘m not trying to be confrontational, but I’m not a big fan of generalities and pronouncements without backing up statements with statistics (like real numbers). I do it too, and I’m guilty of this as well. Still, folks will hear something, and then instantly find an answer to fit their perception or generality.

“Drs. knowing ‘less’ about laser hair removal and ‘not taking the time to learn’?” This is a gross generality. Have you given “ALL doctors” a written test? How do you know this?

I’m not picking on LAgirl, I like her a lot, but people often have a few experiences and then jump to grand statements. “All Germans are …. “ All the French think …. “ “Americans are all …. “ You hear it all the time.

My European friends always make damning statements about Americans (fat, loud, stupid, uneducated … ). I ask them, which ones? The American Natives? The Hawaiians? The cowboys in Montana? The city folks in Harlem? the Hasidic Jews in New York? The Vietnamese in California?

I would also take umbrage on the often-repeated statement that Americans are “sue-happy.” Sure, Americans openly celebtare our lawsuits, but in the medical field (from the DAMAGE I see almost weekly), people don’t sue enough! And, yes, this is MY generality based on my experience.

We all do it!

#16

Drs. knowing ‘less’ about laser hair removal

On average, yes this is true. If you took the proportion of doctors who understand laser hair removal and compare that to the percentage of non-MD laser hair removal technicians, you would have less (the only possible countersolution to this mathematically would be to have all MD’s learn laser hair removal, and as soon as there is 1 MD who doesn’t, the percentage is automatically less.) That’s math and statistics.

There are some MDs who specialize in LHR, but the fact is that LHR-training is not a subject in medical schools (at least to my knowledge), and the only way I see people learning about it in medical school are those who do dermatology rotations

#17

:whistle:

#18

James, that still doesn’t change the fact that that is the training in laser hair removal your doctor will have. Regardless, I’m not sure why those two doctorsoopinion should carry any more weight than anyone else’s when their only reason for leaving seems to be they didn’t like the patients

#19

I don’t think I am arguing with you at all. Do you get the impression that I am arguing with you?
I am not arguing that with you. :wink:

#20

In my experience (so yes, I am generalising), here in the U.K. medical doctor’s (including those performing LHR) generally know less than those running and working in clinics dedicated to LHR. One big give away is how many of them offer IPL. Seriously, if you are an intelligent medical professional and bothered to understand the physics on even a cursory level, you would not offer IPL to your patients. Across the board (so medical and non medical professional) there is no understanding of hair growth… so you just hear the garbage that the machine manufacturers have told them.

Michael, you are a professional and have been in your field for long enough that you know other professionals who are as skilled and experienced as yourself. You know plastics surgeons and other Dr’s who are at the top of their field… and from your posts, not by accident. You experience a whole different side to everything from electrolysis to surgery from the typical client.