In the meantime You might consider multiplying these values by 25.4 in order to see them as millimeters.
Feedback on 3’s
The 3 blanks with the 2 tips are better. Much, much, better. The wire is very stable.
Displacement: I did not have to do this very much, one shot and the hair lifted out with no traction. To explain “not have to do this very much”, I mean, out of 447 insertions, I had to reinsert 20 to 30 times in my estimation. If that is too much in your mind, then perhaps the tips should be lengthened.
I enjoyed testing these probes, Mike. Thanks!
And thank you Dee, for taking the time to work with us on this 
The question I would have is do you consider the cases you’ve been able to use them on fairly typical for this type of Probe ? < 10% displacement I would consider good. As the operator, do you ?
From my point of view, 100% displacement is great because the operator is surgically focusing their treatment to the smallest area possible and irritating the patient the absolute least, however this would reduce your “one shot kill” rate by 90% and increase your workload by that same 90%
Kelly has tested more of a variety of lengths. I had a strong feeling .020" would be the ticket for the 3’s. The problem is as we work our way into the larger size Kellys, test cases become fewer and farther in between.
For this question, your opinion is more valuable than mine is. Do you find yourself wishing the tips were just slightly longer ? Josefa’s opinion is very important to this discussion. With her global client list she must use a strategy that includes telogen hair. Kelly says even if we decide to make them longer than .020" she would still like to see the 20’s in her stock of Probes.
Over the holidays I intend to make the prototype 4’s and 5’s to go out for testing after the first of the year. I suspect our TG cases will be the best test for them as the hormones reduce the size and depth of returning hairs.
Yes, they would. These days i wished (again) i had such probes.
BTW: beard removal is mostly done in anagen where your traditional probes do a great job (with Synchro on the Platinum). I see the benefit largely in the later stages of the treatment.
BTW, currently i am running to leg projects where the clients would also benefit from such probes - first clearance lower leg including every broken stubble with telogen roots. One of the two with 4.5s.
Would you be interested in testing the .004" and .005" “Kelly tip” prototypes Beate ? They will be standard 4’s and 5’s with the tip lengths reduced by measured amounts to find the best length tip for shallow work.
I’d also like opinions on the overall lengths these Probes should be. The Kelly 2’s and 3’s will come in the “short” length ( 3/16" ) since they are intended for shallow, delicate work. The 4’s and 5’s, while also intended for shallow insertions, would find uses in more varied locations, so I’m thinking a “medium” ( 7/32" ) length would be more useful.
Yes, i am interested. I, too, think that medium length is the most useful for these larger sizes, at least for prototyping. Situations where these are too short have been quite rare. But anyway, the total length of the tip must be always sufficient to treat full anagen hairs as well.
I think I should explain more clearly what we’re doing here Beate.
When I speak of overall length, I refer to the distance from where the wire emerges from the stem to the tip. These will be the standard “Medium” length of 7/32" or 5.5563mm. The tip diameter and the taper will be the same as the standard IBP.
Where the Kelly tips differ is the exposed length, the distance from where the insulation ends to the tip. The standard IBP’s are designed with the anagen follicle’s proportions as it’s target. A vellus hair that is very shallow has a smaller area in the vertical demension that needs to be treated and is also closer to the nerves. A standard anagen tip overtreats “up” for no reason. The standard .004" IBP carries an exposed tip of .045" or about 1.15mm. We will reduce this to .030 or .75mm and another size in between to determine what is best for those shallow insertions.
So you see, the standard IBP’s and their corresponding exposed tip lengths will remain as they are. The “Kelly tips” are separate and intended for the shallow follicle.
This concept applied to the .002" IBP is showing a suprising reduction in patient discomfort on a sensitive upper lip.
I always understood it that war, Michael. My point was that we usually use one probe fitting the situation in average. Which means that if there are many telogen hairs and we need a shorter exposed tip this will always be a compromise. From my experience with insulated Ballets there may be a too short.
Oh yes, Beate is a indefatigable researcher.
Mike Roy, the Kelly .003 with a reduction 020 is good, but since there is already the same reduction in the .002, would not it be more practical to have one with 025? For me the logical sequence would be:
.002-020
.003-025
.004-030
.005-035
.006-040
Someday I’d like to see a .005 and a .006 standard with a (3/16") total length, but I’m probably asking too much.
We did find the .025 good on the 3 but the .020 is showing better reviews overall, we may go to .022 and split the difference.
I suspect the final sizes will be close to what you predict, but testing is to come. You will recieve 4’s and 5’s with several tip lengths of each to compare, in January. These are my project while we are closed for the holidays 
We don’t offer the 5’s and 6’s in the short length because we never get asked for them. Do you think this is a european demand that is not seen as much over here ? What do you other pro’s think ? Would you like them ? Also realize they become very rigid at that short length.
I would like to check out some .022’s. I see a mixture of shallow vellus hair structures and deeper, moist anagen vellus structures especially on the sides of the face and cheek area. I definitely like the 2 tips on a 3 blank, but I would be curious to take a .022 (or longer)for a twirl around the block.
The general opinion is what matters.
European demand? I do not know, I have heard that in Germany, many of our colleagues use the two-handed technique, so perhaps a more rigid needle is more suitable.
One thing is certain, there is a greater demand for treatment in men, I mean men body work. Usually, the man is more muscular than women, so I think a shorter probe and therefore more rigid help make faster work, this would save some time and some money to my clients who demand electrolysis for large areas.
As you no doubt know, a probe too short, is a hot probe … but only if naked. If a probe is insulated, the overall length will have no effect on the heating pattern.
This is true Josefa. In the past there was much less male work. I am more than willing to make the 5’s and 6’s in the short length if they are wanted. The exposed tips would be the same but the Kelly concept of the reduced tips would be offered also.
I would like to keep the Kellys to the same length if possible. What do you think the ideal length would be for 4’s, 5’s and 6’s ? Do you think a medium length would be most popular ? Or since they are intended for shallow work, maybe the short length would be more useful ?
How does the size of our targets (the follicles in late telogen) differ? Wouldn’t that determine the length of the exposed tip?
Regarding the total size: even 90% of the hair bein in telogen means 10% not in telogen and thus more deeply routed. We need to be able to treat these hairs with the same probe. It does not appear practicable to me to permanently switch probes during a session.
You have a point Beate but as you said earlier, we have to look at the averages. A folicle in anagen can be overcome with displacement, so if the majority are in telogen one would choose a Kelly/reduced tip length. If the majority are in anagen, one would choose a standard length exposed tip.
As the operator, you control the diameter of the treated area with your choice of the power level delivered. I control the vertical height by the length of tip I make. You can extend the vertical demension with displacement, but you cannot shorten it less then the exposed tip length. Thus the need for a tip reduced below what is needed for predominatly anagen follicles. Enter the “Kelly tip”
Mike, have you seen the latest video that I’ve uploaded to YouTube?, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U205OKSrKAg
The work was done with Kelly Tip 003 (020), only a pulse of 0.1 seconds. It was almost a religious experience, the hair seemed to want to jump out of the follicles themselves.
Before deciding, let me try the 5 and 6 in the short size. If this size works well for standard tips should work better with the Kelly tips 4´s, 5´s and 6´s.
Before (right arm).
1 hour after
2 weeks after
Before left arm
65 minutes after
2 hours of electrolysis in the table, and these arms will never have the appearance of hairy arms. I do not see the look of a Big Mac anywhere, and you?
Hello Josefa! It is not very clear from the video, but it seems that even aganen hairs released easily with only one pulse?
P.S. How long does it usually take from you to find the right setting for epilator?
Hello Ekade, yes, only one pulse for every phase. Greater moisture in anagen hair is compensated with a higher conductivity on top of the follicle, just where you must apply current in telogen hair.
I usually do a couple of tries before to find tolerable parameters for the client, provided of course that I’m working without any anesthesia.
Thank you for your reply! Your work is always spectacular!
Thank you for your reply! Your work is always spectacular!
I’m sorry, I do not quite understand what you mean. I understand about greater moisture and a higher conductivity in anagen hair. But what do you mean saying “just where you must apply current in telogen hair?”
Do you mean that in anagen hairs you do not insert to the full depth of anagen hairs and insert to the depth of telogen hairs as well even if the hair in anagen? Or your words have nothing to do with the depth of insertion?
Josefa, I rephrase my question. In the last video, when you saw anagen hair, did you insert to full anagen depth or shallower?
Thank you!