Part II: Laurier

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#61

Mike Roy, my God!

Receive Laurier probes was going to be an adventure. The customs office of my country has stopped shipping all week. Fortunately, tomorrow I get my probes. Many clients who I have spoken of my intention to test new needles have volunteered, I think I will have to submit the selection contest.

In my country, things happen very rarely, murderers of children wanted by Interpol, walk our streets, but you can not receive a shipment Electrolysis needles, someone understands something? :o

Well, now that I will have the material already. It has established a method for the experiment?

#62

Is there some way to share a power point slide here? …or out there somewhere? Maybe I could email it for critique??? I took a drawing and made layers in a power point slide that shows what I understand the simple/synchro action to be…

Are there some protocols for the Laurier test?

#63

I’ll go so far as to suggest “give em your worst”.

#64

James can do this for you, I’m sure. Just e-mail it to him.

#65

This is not a new product you are testing. It has been on the market for 41 years. Simply substitute The Laurier Insulated Bulbous Probe for the insulated needle you are using at present. Evaluate all the characteristics that make a Probe “good” cost,insertions,durability,patient comfort and the effectiveness of the insulation.

I can honestly tell you, the only complaint I’ve gotten over the years is that we don’t pack them in little paper bags. The illusion that packaging absolves the operator from responsibility is shattered instantly in court. Most state standards require a needle/Probe to be HEAT sterilized before use on a patient. Are yours ? Does your state law provide an exception for other forms of sterilization ?

If we told the car manufacturers they only had to make a car to be driven for an hour or less before being disposed of, what kind of cars do you think we’d get ? Mass produced needles have a place in the market, we however, do not make them.

#66

I used to use your probes and think they are great and yes, very durable. I had to stop using them as they must be individually shrink wrapped as an added measure of security for insurance purposes. Once you get the message that we need it individually shrink wrapped, we will buy your product - otherwise - it shows that you are not concerned enough about our needs.

#67

That is what peel packs are for. What do you sterilize your forceps in ?

#68

Is your packaging different now? This is what I remember:

A dozen probes all lined up in a plastic box with a strip of black tape across them. The individual probes are all exposed and would not be considered pre-sterilized. (Barbara, please chime in. Am I missing something here?)

Your packaging worked for us decades ago when we were able to use the bead sterilizer and then, after a few swooshes in the high heat, we were good to go. The thing is Laurier, our standards have changed.

We follow the INFECTION CONTROL STANDARDS FOR THE PRACTICE OF ELECTROLOGY and in the case of needles, this is what we are expected to do:
" Instruments that can penetrate soft tissue during electrology procedures are the needle and forceps. To assure the highest level of client safety, needles should be single use, pre-sterilized and disposable. Forceps should be thoroughly cleaned and then sterilized before initial use and after use on the client…"

All you have to do is confirm that we will meet the above criteria and then, I will go back to using Laurier.

If you are trying to get your marketing going, I think it is wise to see this as your opportunity to hear what our concerns are and see what is expected of us and make the appropriate changes.

#69

Exactly. Single use - your choice. Disposable - also your choice.
Now for insurance purposes, what looks better. Trusting someone else who guarantees sterility till opened, or placing it in a sterile pouch and passing it through a cycle yourself with the rest of your instruments? Each has an indicator built into the pouch. Our customers that do re-use on individual patients (I admit rare) simply wash them, seal them into a peel pack and sterilize them. Then keep them on file for the patient. It costs about a dollar to peel pack a dozen. It would cost considerably more for us to do it.

#70

To answer your question as to what looks better; what looks better is following the regulations of the Infection control standards for the practice of electrology which states that we use pre-sterilized disposable probes. If you want to help us adhere to our regulations, then your sales might increase. The thing is, your insulated is going to have to perform exceptionally well as at this time, each of your probes costs about $3.00 a piece and that is without AEA approved packaging. That price is far higher than protec and ballet and sterex and premiere and on and on… all of whom package their probes according to AEA standards.

This is not about opinions or biases; this is about regulations and standards.

What good is an exceptional probe when we are not allowed to use them?

Now do you get it?

#71

Mhmm,

there are not only formal reasons requiring pre sterilized probes. It is less a technical aspect but simply a demand of our clients: during first contacts i am asked quite frequently if i would reuse my needles (in theory, non insulated probes can all be sterilized and packaged as long as they survive the session) , and a “yes” would cease the business contact immediately.

Re-use of probes has, however, very bad reputation - with good reason considering those few people putting disposable probes worth 50 ct in plastic bags, handing these over to their clients after charging 5 EUROs for it.

So quite obviously the technical quality of a product is one thing, and acceptance by the market (i.e., our customers) is the other thing. And that is a problem we will have to solve if our tests will be successful (what i do seriously expect from what i have heard in the meantime): which of our customers can we offer this type of needle and to which price?

Beate

#72

Your clients are demanding Beate. My clients use a sewing needle (which some of them, with a little luck, disinfected with alcohol) to remove ingrown hairs.

Customers who are eager to try the needles are ready to be reused it is one of the conditions I have set to enter the selection. I want to check the durability of the needles which unfortunately I have not yet.

Damn bureaucrats!

The health system in my country is recognized worldwide as one of the best. Spain is the country with the highest rate of organ transplants carried out successfully. Well, here insulin needles are reused several times by the patient himself. I doubt very much that many people wash their hands before putting the daily dose. Sterilize the insulin needle? let me laugh.

#73

They are heat sterilized before they are packed, and they are disposable. Nowhere does it say they must be individually wrapped. If presentation is the issue Patterson Pouch Plus self sealing sterilization pouches #084-2625 look nice and have the heat sterilization indicator built in. This shows the patient (and any lawyers hiding in the bushes) that you have taken personal responsibility for their well being. As soon as you open any package the burden of responsibility falls on your shoulders anyway because you choose to use it on the patient. Personally if I have to defend myself with it, I’d rather load my own gun as it were. I find my customers more concerned with the probe than the package.

As to success, we have been here 41 years so far…

As a sidebar: how does an operator in New Jersey, that by state law requires a needle/probe to be heat sterilized and makes no provision for any other kind of sterilization, use an insulated needle ?

I don’t want to sound arrogant, I’m not, but our company has, and always has had, a very narrow focus.“Helping the hairy” as Dee puts it (I love that) the quality and performance of the Probe is our sole concern. We make very high quality instruments, Patterson makes sterile packaging.

#74

So, I don’t have to sterilize the probes you sent - they are already sterilized??? Where does one purchase Patterson Plus pouches. Will the prices of probes be going up soon with the inevitable rising inflation? We feel it in food and energy prices, but what about probes?

#75

Dee the probes carry the same price they did 1n 1970 when they were introduced, and there are no plans to change that. Dr Heimlich carries a full line of sterile packaging. Also look under dental, it’s the size a dentist uses for burs.

I have a pic if you can tell me how to post it.

They are heat sterilized before they’re packed, but as I said, load your own gun as it were. If you’ve autoclaved them then you KNOW they’re sterile.

#76

All the instruments we buy pre-sterilized for surgery had one of two FDA approved methods: gamma ray or gas/ethylene oxide (ETO). For example, the doctor goes through hundreds of syringes and hypodermic needles per week and these are plastic and, therefore, cannot be heat (autoclave) sterilized — and they are not. They are gamma or ETO and are safe and approved for surgical use. State medical boards and FDA don’t require heat sterilization of commercially sterilized instruments before use in surgery.

The thing I like about the blister packs is that it shows me, and the patient, that this needle has never been used on anyone else. I always make sure they see me take the needle out of the package EVERY time. Mike you may have valid arguments for not supplying pre-packaged needles, but as I said to you, this is what the industry demands. Actually, it’s been at least 15 years since this “argument” was hot, and it has been resolved with pre-packaging sterile needles winning the day.

#77

And possibly they are doing both at the same time. We all know, and we know that the needle and forceps are sterile at best until we have removed the first hair.

So i do not have a problem for myself with reusing and sterilizing probes, and i do that frequently when i work on myself.

The only point is actually how to sell this -even thoroughly hand sterilized probes, and as soon as we do not reuse the Laurier probes, the pricing will also be an issue - our pricing, not Mike’s. It is an issue we have to solve, we as the practitioners, not Mike Roy. We are the interface to the end consumers.
It would, for example, be uneconomic to use a Laurier probe in a session of 30 min or less and then dispose it. This shall by no means mean that this cannot be solved, it must just be thought about.

And all this is more difficult for newcomers who have to build up their reputation than for collegues who are respected in business for a long time.

Beate

#78

You are so cute! I love the term autopilot. I feel very comfortable and in control when I use the autopilot sensor. I look at it as one less step that I have to think about and it is less fatiguing for those long appointments not to be pressing a footswitch for every hair, which today would have been almost 4,000 insertions worth. I just set the delay to where I want it and off I go into the wild, blue yonder! I’m glad we have the opportunity to hear about each others preferences. Thanks much Jossie.[/quote] [/quote]

James, Dee, I have gone a step further. I have activated the autopilot. I have programmed the insertion time of 0.3 s. But I had to increase the intensity by nearly 300 e.l in order to work as effectively in a single attempt. This only happens to me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muSN-3KxKGc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCi-g4pm5Lo&feature=related

#79

This, sadly, is the way the culture has changed. The package has indeed become more important than it’s contents to many.

We cater to those who do not let the tail wag the dog…

Why is a sterile pouch unacceptable for a patient with an electrolysis probe in it, yet just fine with a scalpel in the same package ?

#80

I agree with you Mike. And 99 % of my clients also, because of they are impatient to receive treatment with your needles.

One of your needles will be tested in the center of the upper lip of a woman with very thin hair, if the special design that annuls the “lip” between the tip and the insulation works in this area, this will be the most conclusive proof as for what the client experiments of pain. If I can lower the intensity and obtain the same result, do you believe that will import the package more than the interior of the package to the client?
The clients know that the needle is yours since they themselves can take to house and to return to bring in the next visit. The bag can be labelled by them in house.