Beate, contact Mike Roy and he will custom make something for you. He is very accommodating . I have always used Ballet gold probes and I still do here and there. It took me awhile to get use to the feel of a Laurier two piece probe after having used the stiffer ballet probe. I got it down now and I love them and could never do without them.
If what you seek is a more rigid Probe Beate, try the 4.5. It is a .0045" diameter Probe tapered from .006" wire, instead of the .005" wire a .004" Probe is normally made from. This produces a one-piece type of “feel” in your hand.
I’m hoping to hear opinions and observations this week on the .002’s with the Kelly tips that are out for testing. Josefa’s opinion is especially important here because in the time she has been using the IBP she has developed expert technique in the use of the standard .002" Probe and deals with vellus hair on a regular basis. We are at the ready to put them into full production. The one question we have left to answer is if the .018" exposed tip length is preferred over the .020" length tip.
I should elaborate here for the readers…the standard .002" IBP carries a .035" exposed tip. The shorter “KellY” exposed tip is intended for the extremely shallow follicle of a vellus hair.
FYI James, Arlene and I are entering heavy storm conditions. Power and internet may become spotty. Please forgive us if we’re in and out of communication here.
Button down the hatches! This is one massive “pick your poison” hurricane. Wind, rain, sleet, snow, blizzard in the Appalachians. It has been windy and rainy here in Ohio for two days and some snow is expected. I wouldn’t mind loosing phone service. This presidential election process grants me phone calls to the tune of four or five a day, with at least one being a poll. I voted a week ago, but I still get the barrage of phone calls. I voted for the guy who hates puppies.
Mike, I will use the .018 today on a long case. Maybe I will see a difference between the .020 and the .018. Can’t say I observed a huge difference on my case a couple days ago, but I will observe again.
I agree with Dee, I can not see a big difference between the 1.8 and the 2.0 Kelly in the reaction of the skin. My guinea pigs say they barely felt any pain, and believe me, I’ve tested on people with a pain threshold very, very high, one of which is my own daughter. Those who know her know that she would never let me work on her face without using some kind of topical anesthetic. Well, this time it was, and both are quite surprised.
However, I see that the narrowing is still too long, causing the end of the tip is too brittle and thus it tends to bend too easily. This is not a problem in the face, but the body work is not feasible. Could it not be shortened a bit?
(I hope Sandy is being kind to those of you who are at its mercy, at least, as much as the Kelly tip is.)
Mike, Your probes are not the problem. I like them all (including the 4.5) and could work with them efficiently from the first second. Well, i actually used Sterex 2-piece probes in my inital training, and i think this helps a lot. Despite of that i am surprised to have problems handling the Pro-Tec probes, at least initially. They feel less rigid than everything i had used before including Sterex 2-piece.
Mike Roy! How is hurricane Sandy treating you up there in New York? It’s still pretty windy here in Columbus, but work goes on! Just heard my cousin, Martin O’Malley, Governor of Maryland, give a report on his state. Looks really bad there.
Just wanted to to give you more feedback on these #2 prototypes. They got a good work out today. I worked 335 minutes or 5.5 hours on a clients peach fuzz today. I went through four probes because of the flimsiness problem. Insertions accomplished: 3,198, that would be 582 insertions per hour, which is slow for me. Being that these probes are so delicate, I had to baby them along,working a little slower. I worked part of that time using a .018, a good part of the time using a .020. Bottom line is, these probes are too delicate. they bend and curve too easily. They do slide in the follicle nicely and the hair releases well. The client was tolerating the treatment well. The modality I used was Synchro, Lip Program Level 0, with a range of 38el - 68el’s. I had to use two .020 because of the delicate nature of these probes contorting on me. Here is a picture of the curve problem. Is this what you are seeing, too, Josefa?
Another:
This is a close up of the hair I was working on:
For the last hour of the appointment, I used the standard .035 #2 and it worked to my satisfaction. No bending or flimsiness with this old standby. So, for me, I prefer the feel of the .035, however, I would like a shorter tip. Does that makes sense to you, Mike?
Josefa, I, too, will capture one of my little guinea pigs and work on the upper lip. One of my daughters will be a test subject for a .018 probe on her delicate upper lip hair, but she doesn’t know that yet. he!he!caw!caw! I use to say to my younger clients when I worked on their upper lip, that I was just preparing them for childbirth someday, but now I can’t say that line anymore since Laurier IBP’s have entered my electrolysis tool bag.
Let me ask you a question, Josefa and Dee. In this case and in body work on vellus hair. Do you think a .003" Probe with the short Kelly tip would have done the job well ? Prototypes of just that concept have been finished and will leave for Kelly for testing probably tomorrow.
Thanks to your testing we have determined that adjusting the taper to make them a bit more rigid has the reverse effect by making them less yielding to unfortunate occurrences like the patient moving on you. A very slight increase in tip diameter ( .00025" ) may help that but Kelly feels that the same reduced tip concept should be applied to the 3’s and 4’s also, so the 3’s are next on our hit list.
I won’t know how to answer your question until I try the new prototype, Mike, but three or even a four blank may do the trick. . As you know, I don’t like to jump to conclusions too fast. I plan to use these probes to death in different circumstances. I have a two day vellus body hair case coming up Thursday and Friday (if she doesn’t cancel because of the hurricane - she’s from out of town). I will continue to use the .020 and .018 to make sure that my early conclusions about these prototypes are repeated over and over again. I’m always open to try whatever you design, Mike.
That’s exactly Dee.
“For the last hour of the appointment, I used the standard 035 # 2 and it worked to my satisfaction. No bending or flimsiness With This old standby. So, for me, I prefer the feel of the 035, However, I would like to Shorter tip.”
I had the same idea, and I had the same feeling. In my opinion, all that is needed is to extend the insulation layer to achieve a reduction in the exposed tip. You’ve expressed it brilliantly Dee. All I get is frustrate Mike and myself with my damn translator. Arlene, you and I have come to the same conclusion. I think Mike could save himself the trouble of sending prototypes to Spain. When the final prototype of the Kelly tips is ready, I’ll be the first to order it. 
We must realize the .002" IBP was never intended for body work. In fact, it took quite a bit of convincing for my father to introduce the .002" IBP about a decade ago. It’s only target is very fine facial work although we have exposed the need for less vertical size to our “kill zone” for the infamous vellus hair. Until it’s introduction, the .003" diameter Probes were the weapon of choice for these hairs.
Please understand the insulation contributes nothing to the physical strength of the Probe. It is there only to contain the radio frequency radiation pattern and make it begin at the tip. These are not made with pre-insulated wire. They are machined to a precise linear taper and then the insulation is installed in behind the bulbous tip to not protrude beyond the tapered profile so as to not interfere with insertion. This requires the shaft diameter be reduced to make room for the insulation and thus makes it delicate when working at that small a diameter.
To this end I’m moving ahead a bit before I intended to. It so happens we’re making .003" short Probes this week. We’re going to make a few dozen with the same length “Kelly” tips .020" long vs. the .035" tip the .003’s normally carry. As soon as they’re ready, they will be headed to you both for evaluation.
I cannot repeat my father’s mantra enough, and I saw Josefa state it over in the DIY forum. Always use the largest diameter Probe feasable for the task in question. We have determined that the reduced vertical demension of our “Kill zone” is a great advantage. Let us apply it to the 3. We gain a little in diameter but a lot in durability.
The domain for the .002" ( in most cases ) is a female lip. For the most delicate work. I think with the reduced tip on the 3 we can limit it’s use to just that.
Hmmm…that makes sense not use a size 2 probe for body work because of the nature of the probe, but I’m going to try it for these tiny vellus body hairs that an up coming client desires to have removed. I most definitely agree with using the largest probe possible for a job. I have a heavy stock of 5 and 6’s in my probe drawer.
Dear Dee, a the hair on my arms and lower legs is do fine that the #2 is the probe of choice. With a few of my clients as well.
The magic is limitless as it has no limits the imagination. You are the expert in manufacturing probes. I never dare to tell you how to do your job. You’ve used us very badly, some of us have learned that everything can be improved and that could improve what was already perfect.
The delicate work is not exclusive of the upper lip of a woman. The body has areas that are even more delicate and require more attention and care. For example, the internal area of the arm. As you can see, the hairs are very fine.
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Oh I agree Josefa. There are no absolutes as to the IBP’s use. It is up to me to make the instrument. How it is played best is to be decided by you and your peers. It is up to me to improve that instrument to give you the freedom you need to make the music.
Sorry, two translators that I have used have the same incorrect interpretation: Mike, when I say “You’ve used us very badly”, what I was trying to say is that You have accustomed us badly, i.e, each one of our requests have been granted. We have asked (required?) and it has been granted to us. Yes, we have perhaps been pampered too.
(My God, now the translators have allied against me)
Josefa we know you always mean well. for not understanding English and contributing all you do using 2 translators YOU ROCK!
She never ceases to amaze me. We talked through the e-mail for a long time before I realized she spoke Spanish. She has excellent command of the translation program. I’ve observed though, that when it gives her trouble it is because she is passionate about something.
The translation program is ovewhelmed by the fire and determination in her spirit 
Synchro system.
Parameters: 2,2 s / 43% / 270 e.l
Technique used for most of the hairs: double insertion technique.
Probe type: IBP: 006 long and 5,5 heavy.
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Hello Josefa, by “double insertion technique” do you mean two pulses at papilla or two pulses with displacement (one at papilla and another higher?) (man’s beard hairs)
Thank you!