Pain during electrolysis

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

I just read an article on the internet that seems to state that the electrolysis treatment should not hurt when it is done by a skilled electrologist. I have linked it below.

http://www.bostonschoolofelectrolysis.com/painless-electrolysis.php

Have I got this all wrong and missunderstood the article?
I guess I must have, considering some of the best skilled electrologists offer anesthetics during treatment…
(But I understand that the more skilled the electrologist are the less pain one would feel during electrolysis?)

Just wanted to get it sorted out. :slight_smile:

#2

First of all, don’t take anything seriously you find on that site. The maker is a known head case.

Secondly, while I can say that many of my clients fall asleep while I work on them, I am not willing to say that good work is always painless. Much of it can be, but as one of my clients put it, “At its worst, it was annoying, but I would not call it painful.”

What I like to say is that sensation is a mixed bag, and the variables on what one will feel have a lot to do with both the practitioner side, and the client side. If the practitioner can not see, and is guessing at the insertion, and/or is from the school of thought that says you crank up the treatment energy to “what ever the client can stand” instead of what is necessary to treat the hair, it can be painful indeed. If the client prepares for the treatment by drinking, drugging, having a sleepless night, and allows themselves to get dehydrated, then the client can contribute to some high pain registering, no matter the skill of the practitioner.

I don’t know how many clients I have who complain about their treatment sensation, but won’t delete the pot of coffee they drink every day. I have no sympathy, as there is one thing they know they could do to make it better, and refuse to do it. I have already provided them with the best treatment sensation I believe they have available in the world, minus nerve blockers.

#3

[color:#CC0000]"…very few people are aware that there are no nerve fibers in the follicle structure…"[/color]

This is curious. I’ve already heard this statement in the past. And I wonder what kind of logical reasoning makes someone draw at this conclusion. If science had not proved that all follicles of our body have a free endings that envolve like a snake embracing its victim´s body, it should be enough with common sense to understand that when you pluck one of your hairs in any area of the body, you feel pain, to a greater or lesser degree. So, any damage in the exact place where the root of the hair is located must cause any pain necessarily. And this is not exclusive in Electrolysis, all laser technicians know that treatment is more painful when the treatment works.

foto-de-nervios.jpg298×512

The effectiveness of Electrolysis is unquestionable. This is a fact and I do not think the manufacturers have an interest in getting better what is unbeatable, any machine can get all treated follicles die the first time. Now, the interest of manufacturers is getting treatment without pain or with less pain, and the injury is produced before the order of pain reaches our brain. This is the basis of the Flash system and the researches go on in this way.
Dectro is one of the manufacturers who opted for further research for a treatment without pain and in my opinion they have nearly achieved it when these areas are not very sensitive and the hair is tinny.

#4

Ditto to all that Jossie said.
Here’s a drawing of the nerve plexus and the follicle. (
this is my drawing, actually, planned for a new book … not sure if I’ll ever get around to finishing it.)

A comment on the link you provided. I agree with a lot of what Kimberly says. Her “attack rhetoric,” however, is not appropriate and a big “turn off.” She would make more sense to lower the heat and be less inflammatory. I seriously do not understand the intensity of her anger and I cannot make any sense of her rantings. (I don’t “get it.” Well, on a couple issues, yes.)

In any human interaction, “feathers get ruffled.” I just had a sort of falling out with a very dear friend about an off-handed and painful comment she made. I let her know how I felt and now I have forgotten about it. Misunderstandings happen all the time. We talk them out and more forward. Point is: NEVER hold a grudge and always be forgiving. Most of the time people don’t intend to be hurtful: we are not infallible. Forgive, kiss and make up, and move on.

#5

I will see your artists’ renderings, and raise you a a medical photograph.

It would be very difficult indeed to do more than a few hairs in any one area without the client feeling SOMETHING. The question is can treatment be done while the client finds the sensation to be tolerable.

Allow me to say again, don’t use that web page as a reference. The job of editing it for content would take months. On a personal note, I used to marvel in wide wonder at the question of “Just what kind of person could this be”. If I got to show that person a thing or two, then Williams could stop hiding behind a phony net picture, and post a picture of what Williams really looks like. While I understand that the shoe maker’s children are barefoot, those of us in this industry for the long haul do help each other out, so that we all can become products of our product. Since we can’t work on ourselves, we need great work to be done on us, so that we can show the clients what they can look forward to.

#6

James, I’m very glad you posted that micrograph, showing the actual nerve endings surrounding the base of the hair follicle. Some months ago, I saw a similar but larger micrograph that was brightly colored with high contrast to illustrate the different structures. Of course, I haven’t been able to find it again. :frowning:

Having experienced months of facial electrolysis using different practitioners with different equipment, I can say that absolutely NONE of them were entirely painless. Depending on which follicle was being treated, many were no more than mildly bothersome, while others seemed to be directly wired to the nerve beneath them.

As so many people say regarding so many things:
“No pain, no gain”. :smiley:

#7

True and honest, Caith. There is sensation with electrolysis. It is not easy, but at the same time, it is not wholly unpleasant. The new tools of the trade make it so anesthetic help is not necessary. I and others would not have people laying on the table for hours at a time if it was very painful. I do not use anesthetics, but if someone asks what is available to help minimize the sensation, they do so for the upper middle lip almost exclusively.

I do not see how electrolysis can be “painless”. Unless one is using anesthetic help, sensation will be felt. Whether it is an issue or not depends on skillful insertions, better technology available from our manufacturers who invest heavily into giving us better tools and modalities and quality vision and light aids.

Maybe Kimberly would like to share with us how she provides painless electrolysis care. Perhaps she uses anesthetics on sensitive areas? If, she does, then this answers the original question simply.

#8

“The new tools of the trade make it so anesthetic help is not necessary.”

Oh really? Then explain this to me: Jossie uses the Apilus Platinum and she also uses local anesthetic. Wanna “jump in here” Jossie.

#9

Well, I don’t use anesthetic. If a client wants anesthetic help on their own, I do nothing to stop them, but > 95 % of my clients don’t pursue topical anesthesia. The ones that do, are not saying it is a panacea anyway, but it helps a little bit. Perhaps Jossie’s levels are different from mine? What difference does it make to you who does what?

#10

“What difference does it make to you who does what?”

I don’t care one way or the other. I would not, however, be dismissive of those tryng to make a difference. Given the option, most patients will pick no pain at all. Face work almost never requires this modality; bodywork is another story that Jossie will confirm.

#11

For initially treating the center of my upper lip beneath my septum, I purchased a 10% lidocaine spray online. This product is intended for use on mucous tissues, but performs reasonably well as a topical anesthetic.

#12

I do a lot of bodywork. Worked recently on a man’s upper shoulders, upper arms and middle upper back. Four hours worth. No anesthetic. Nine hours worth last week on another client, split between two days - no anesthetic. We must be living in two worlds. I’m indifferent as to who wants what for what. If clients want to use topicals, I’m perfectly okay with that. I will even help them out to the extent my license allows me to. I’m just saying that greater than 95% of my clients are not asking for anything and say it is tolerable to very tolerable, excluding the middle upper lip for some people. Body work, backs, upper and lower arms, anterior lower and upper abdomen, anterior chest, lower legs all tolerable. Bikini lines mostly good, but some come with EMLA and occlusion.

To repeat, Jossie and I are different electrologists and we have probably discovered different paths that lead to the same happy endings, even though we own the same epilator. I can only share with you what I do on my side of the fence.

Are you still working in a physicians office where the physician can inject? Do you numb everyone you see no matter the area? Most electrologists do not have a physician in the next room waiting to inject. Using topicals on large areas, with a certain thickness of the cream, is not recommended by the manufacturer.

#13

Yes, Michael, local anesthesia is one of the resources we use to void pain. This is used in sensitive areas like the pubic area, underarms, nostrils, etc…

It is a heritage that science has left humanity and those who suffer from excess hair are also human beings. I am a tireless seeker of the perfect treatment, an electrolysis safe, effective, quick, and painless. I’ve tried everything (except hypnosis and acupuncture) to mitigate the pain in my clients. I read so much pain chapter in your book that almost know by heart, you describes many tricks to help tolerate the feeling of pain.
Sometimes I use my fingers to press the area for so long that I have cramps in my hands for a while. I resort to the analgesic effect of Electrolysis own and work in waves to interrupt the nerve impulse is transmitted through the dendrites. I tried to cool the skin, and raise the temperature too, I have tried Tens currents to release endorphins. I bought the Platinum Apilus after checking in myself that was less painful with the same speed. I’m using the needle Laurier because all my clients agree that produces less pain.
Local (and topical too) anesthesia is my common resource in large areas of the body that require speed of work. This is tolerable with nothing at all? yes, of course, no one has left the table did not tolerate treatment, however, I quite understand Michael, the pain-free Electrolysis on the body is only possible with local anesthesia.

#14

Isn’t “pain” relative? Relative to so many things. The individual, the area, the settings?

Hair color?


conflicting information: http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0001480/47/

Or is it all in our head?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12633241/?GT1=8199

I would imagine that most of us (electrologists) play it by ear…or should I say “sense”…when I sense that a client is giving off “uncomfortable” signals, then I do what I can to help. Topicals, moving to another area, adjusting settings, discussing options for the next time (dental infiltration or OTC pain relief)…

#15

Very true, Dee, there are many electrologists without a physician in the next room. And apparently, although the electrologist is a licensed physician does not seem to have much interest in infiltration anesthesia to patients. See the example of France.

I can not understand that a graduate nurse can infiltrate the skin to suture a wound, however, they can not infiltrate local anesthesia in Electrolysis. Since I do not understand that they can do an episiotomy and can not cut a verruca vulgaris, or they can remove telangiectasias with laser and can not do this with Electrolysis. There is so much nonsense that should change and this is what Michael claim. We should be grateful to him for claiming a right that belongs to us. Sometimes I thought what would happen to us and people with excess hair if the physicians reclaim Electrolysis. The associations like AEA would be willing to allow? probably not, because unity is strength. And the strength is power.
Many of my clients are doctors and nurses, and they infiltrate themselves. Tell me, why it what’s good for them is not good for everyone else?

#16

Personally, I don’t want to pay, nor could I afford to pay the malpractice premiums that doctors need to pay for the privilege of infiltrating skin for minor procedures. It is a liability issue. It is not about fairness, ability or IQ. It is about protecting the public with the full back up of monetary restitution if something goes wrong.

My original point remains the same - with the epilator I use, the Apilus Platinum, I am not seeing a demand from my clients for topical anesthetics. The ones that ask for topical help, are asking in regard to their middle upper lip, most likely. I am glad to respond and help. I actually have 5 gram tubes of lidocaine for purchase, at my cost plus sales tax. I sell about ten tubes a year.

It is none of my business what others do in their offices, but I do like to hear what they do, with the spirit of sharing ideas. I simply report, with utmost honesty, what I have found to be true in my practice. If Michael Bono wants to describe me as dismissive, then I assume that he is speed reading my posts with little comprehension, perhaps? :slight_smile:

I have to admit that I am a little confused about the push for anesthetic help when I am not seeing this as an ongoing need in my practice. I do long appointments for the most part. Yes, some clients are very sensitive, but I can change some things to make it better for them. If I can’t find something that works, then we talk about topicals or they just get something internal to take, on their own, ranging from Advil to Percocet. I have to follow the constraints of my license and I am not angry about that or think it is a fairness, ability or IQ issue. I don’t think it is right, either. Give one well-intentioned person a syringe with a bottle of lidocaine and if they inject into a vein accidentally, on Nelly!

One of my daughters is a nurse practitioner. She can inject and suture, but she has advanced training (masters degree) to do so. Another nurse, may not have those privileges. Imagine putting injectables into the hands of any electrologist, who ranges from a high school graduate to a former teacher. Again, this is a liability issue, not solely an ability issue and there has got to be strict standards to protect the consumer.