what should be the optimal settings on soprano for skin type IV? I have been going to American LHR center and my last treatment was with soprano laser and it did nothing compare to lightsheer.
if your hair is coarse, anything over 25 joules and under 100ms on a diode is best. if it’s finer, even lower pulse is best, as in 20ms and lower if possible. do they not have lightsheer anymore?
Thanks! There lightsheer machine was used so much that it broke and they replaced it soprano. They also have the aurora which I’m having 2nd thoughts about.
hanalulu, please post your results after being treated with the Soprano… It’s a new machine and many are having the same problem as you-- no shedding after the treatment. I, myself had the same happen to me and I;m contemplating whether I should continue with it or use the Aurora…
i sort of doubt that LightSheer broke. all the locations of this chain seem to have switched machines to soprano…
someone posted this on the other forum. looks like our suspicions have been confirmed:
wysiwug
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 1
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject:
My wife has had her second session of LHR using the Saprano.
Full Legs, bikini (brazilian), navel
SLC, Ut
Please forgive me for the long post. This is our experience using the Saprano diode laser and some of the research I have done. I hope someone finds this useful.
I was in the treatment room for both of her treatments.
During each session I copied down all the settings on the Soprano machine while the technician was out of the room. I also copied down what the clinic’s recommended settings were for the Soprano.
Funny thing is, the clinic / center has changed the recommended settings since the first session.
I think they are still getting used to the Soprano laser.
A technicians experience with any laser seems to show in the results of the treatment.
I had read the posts on Diode lasers and researched the laser on the net.
I wanted to know what the settings should be when the laser was used.
My research found that 30 J/cm2 seemed the safest with the best chance for good results for a first time treatment using a Diode laser.
Here is my wife’s experience.
I have not listed the name of the clinic since it seems to be removed later, but you can figure it out.
11 Dec 2006
No discomfort during the treatment. No burning sensation or redness.
Technicians would only follow the recommended chart settings.
Technician took too long during treatment. They are not familiar with the pulse repitition rate and how fast they can move the laser. Noticed a lack of experience with the Soprano. In this case I feel the clinics were not training their staff in the proper use and settings for the Soprano.
First LHR treatment
A** laser centers
Recommended Fluence settings
Skin type: Fluence:
1 22-30
2 20-25
3 18-22
4 16-20
5 15-18
Settings used during treatment:
Technician 1 first 2 hours / Technician 2 last 30 min. (we had two technicians during this 2.5 hr treatment)
Pulse Type: Type III
Fluence: 20 J/cm2
PRR: 2 Hz
bottom numbers: 5912 / 12761 (I don’t know what these numbers mean.)
With the Fluence setting at 20 J/cm2, I felt the setting was too low and I was not confident the clinic / center technicians were properly trained on the Soprano laser.
My wife experienced little shedding and some striping.
First session, waist of time. Fluence was set to low. Improper coverage of the treatment area.
http://www.almalasers.com/hair-removal.jsp
Watch the video. It shows an example of how the Sonata laser should glide over the skin and how quickly it can be done. The Sonata is the forerunner to the Soprano.
I wondered about the clinic / center technician’s skill after my wifes first visit because the procedure was not how I read it would be. They did not glide the laser, instead they picked it up and placed it like they do with the Harmony (first machine in the video) and the Fluence was set so low.
In the video the technician and the patient are not wearing eye protection while they are using the Harmony laser. I dont know if this was a mistake or if it just looked better for the video.
After the first session I emailed alma lasers. They actually called me back. I talked to a sales rep. She explained they could not give recommendations to consumers. They could only train the technicians and that I should talk to the technician.
I also emailed a**laser doctor but received no reply.
Second LHR treatment
27 Feb 2007
A** laser centers
Recommended Fluence settings changed from previous visit.
(They increased their recommended settings.)
Skin type: Fluence:
1 26-44 from 22-30
2 24-40 from 20-25
3 18-30 from 18-22
4 16-26 from 16-20
5 15-20 from 15-18
Settings used during treatment:
Technician 2
Pulse Type: Type III
Fluence: 28/30 J/cm2
PRR: 2 Hz
bottom numbers: (forgot to write them down, still dont know what they mean.)
My wife definitely felt the laser this time. Started with 28 J/cm2 around the navel and bikini, changed to 30 J/cm2 for the legs. Mild redness with no prolonged discomfort. Redness was gone after first day. She said it felt like someone was snapping her with a rubberband. The treatment was a lot faster. The technician seemed more confident on how to use the laser. She glided the laser over the skin just like in the video.
After 2.5 weeks we noticed good shedding. The skin is still smooth after 5 days without shaving. We are happy with the second LHR treatment.
We may try the Amerilase next time. It uses the same type diode as the Soprano and is combined with RF and has a larger spot size. I just want the technicians to practice on other patients before we use it.
I support my wife in everything she does. I just want to give her the chance to make informed decisions and to be an informed consumer. Ya, I also like watching out for her. I’d be lost without her.
FYI: This is what I have researched: (some of this gets technical, I seem to over research sometimes)
http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic738.htm
“For permanent hair reduction, the laser must be applied to its limit for the particular patient and for the area being treated (as determined with careful patch testing). This requirement usually means a painful treatment and a need for local anesthesia. Only this method truly provides an opportunity for permanent follicular death. Any claims to the contrary should be viewed with suspicion.”
Soprano Alma lasers
http://www.almalasers.com/soprano_specifications.jsp?nav=1&subnav=2&prodnav=1
Specs: alma lasers Soprano
Power: CW 500 Watts (1W = 1J/s)
Wavelength: CW diode array 810 nm (distance between the peaks of light waves (type of light (green, red, yellow)))
Pulse Width: 10-1350 ms
Pulse duration: up to 400 ms
Energy output(Fluence): up to 120 J/cm2 (energy delivered per unit area)
Spot size: 10 x 12 mm
Pulse/Sec: up to 3 Hz
Cooling: Direct coupling through Sapphire Contact
Room temperature should ideally be between 68 to 77°F (20 - 25°C), with a relative humidity less than 80%.
This is what I think the Soprano recommended settings for Type III skin should be.
Wavelength: (810 nm)
repitition rate: (up to 3 Hz) Pulse repitition rate (PRR):
energy: (25-35 j/cm2) joules: a unit of energy equal to the work done by a force of one newton acting through a distance of one meter
Pulse Width: (50 ms)
spot size: (10 x 12 mm)
http://www.almalasers.com From the menus on the left select Products / Soprano XL / Photo Gallery
Underarms: After 5 Tx. Pulse Type III @ 48 J/cm² (48 owww!)
Bikini: After 7 Tx. Pulse Type III @ 48 J/cm²
Chin: After 3 Tx. Pulse Type III @ 37 J/cm²
http://www.squabb.co.za/cat/shop/item.asp?itemid=9
High fluence (up to 100 J/cm2) effectively removes even lighter hair
The long pulse width (up to 400 ms) can effectively and safely treat unwanted hair in all skin types, including tanned skin.
Patients have been treated with lower Fluence settings:
Bikini: 6 months after 3 Tx. at 20 J/cm2 LP + 35 J/cm2 Pulse Mode
Underarms: 6 months after 4 Tx. at 20 J/cm2 LP + 14 J/cm2 Pulse Mode
Navel: 6 months after 4 Tx. at 20 J/cm2 Pulse Mode
The longer the wavelength, the deeper the laser light penetrates the skin.
http://www.elengroup.com/medical-laser/aesthetics/laser-hair-removal.html
The thermic relaxation time (TRT) is the time it takes for the structure that has absorbed the laser radiation, and is therefore at a certain temperature, to lose 50% of the heat stored. In order to destroy the follicle it is necessary for the pulse duration to be about the same as its TRT. Pulses with a longer duration would only have the effect of heating the follicle at lower temperatures because it would have time to cool down in the meantime. Since the epidermis is the first to be exposed to the laser beam, it is extremely likely to be damaged by the energy of the laser pulse if the duration is shorter than its TRT.
http://www.laserwelt.com/uploads/media/Klinische-Aspekte_01.pdf
To confine thermal damage to the hair follicle, the laser pulse duration should lie between the TRT for epidermis, which is approximately 3–10 ms, and the TRT for the hair follicles which is approximately 40–100 ms.
High energy,short pulses of laser light cause extremely rapid heating of the target, with a rapid expansion of the thermal plasma. If the pulse width is too long, however, there will be insufficient time for the heat to dissipate, and undesirable temperature increase will occur with thermal injury to non-follicular structures, which could result in scarring or irregularities in pigmentation.
Dark hair that contains large amounts of eumelanin readily absorbs these wavelengths and is most susceptible to laser-induced damage.
larger energy density (fluence) must be employed during 800nm than with a 755nm wavelength laser.
The thinner the hair, the smaller the energy density level.
http://www.syneron.com/assets/downloads/_pdf/eLaser_Brochure.pdf
eLaser(AmeriLase)
Ultra-Fast Hair Removal [DSL Applicator]
The combination 810-nm Diode Laser plus Bi-Polar RF allows you to treat more patients in less time. Fast treatments can be achieved with a constant frequency output of 2 Hz and the largest treatment spot size available (12 x 15-mm).
Perfect for treating large areas, like mens’ backs or womens’ legs.
810-nm Diode Laser combined with Bi-Polar RF energy provides highly selective targeting of the hair follicle and shaft while protecting the surrounding tissue. The RF energy of elo¯s does not rely on the chromophore melanin to be effective.