Not sure if my electrologist is doing a good job..

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

There are times when she’s tugging on the hair and to me it feels like a struggle. I’m not sure if the hair has actually “released” or if shes tugging. I don’t want to ask bc I dont want to seem accusatory or come off like I’m telling her how to do her job. But how much tugging is normal? Should I feel NO struggle at all to get the hair out?

I’m tempted to try another electrologist to see if I get a similar experience.

Can anyone give me a very specific account of what I’m supposed to feel as the hair is being pulled out? Thanks!

Thanks

#2

You should feel no traction. It should slide. In the beginning, some hairs are very resistant, so I am not surprised that she is struggling with some. Tell her you feel tugging and give her a chance to explain or to adjust her energy levels.

It never hurts to get as many consults as you can so you can find the person that you are comfortable with.

#3

If you’re noticing tugging is because the follicle is being undertreated, or because the probe is not inserted correctly, and the current is being released in the wrong place.

How long have you been receiving Electrolysis? … Well, I have to make an effort to call that Electrolysis. :frowning:

#4

How often? In relation to smooth treatments?

Are You aware that taking out the “grains of salt” of telogen follicles can often be felt by the clients even if they are fully treated?

So to me there is too little of information to understand what’s actually going on.

#5

Are we really going to have this argument again? I hope not.

#6

If you’re not sure, try someone else. Compare the feeling. Maybe try a few others? It’s up to you - but you won’t know unless you have something to compare it to.

#7

ahhh but it’s so entertaining :slight_smile:

Seana

#8

Hi rfa.

It is ideal to get an easy release.

I agree with emilily. Visit other electrologists and compare.

Since we are not treating you, we can only be very general in our responses.

All the best,

#9

Yep, this may be a “worn-out” subject; but a subject that’s always NEW to a new client.

Thing is, if you are uninterested in a topic you don’t have to say anything; let the others “do it.” I don’t speak to a LOT of topics for that same reason. (I gave up on the “counting hairs per minutes” thing.)

Yep, after YEARS of this, there are few brand-new topics. Still, clients are always FRESH and always give me a sort of excitement about explaining our procedures. It always seem new to me with a nice fresh person!

So, I did a fast drawing to illustrate a point about “tugging.” The lesson comes from people that get their body hairs WAXED! On an unshaven area, say a guy’s back, the waxing is excruciating. However, if a person is waxing all the time (like a woman’s legs), it’s not so bad. It’s all about telogen hairs.

A frequent waxer shows only anagen hairs. These early growers are easy to extract; not so the telogen hairs.

Remember that the hair root is actually the epidermis. The epidermis is relatively “hard and dry” (keratinized) and the so-called “grain of sand” is not actually a hair root (only) it’s the epidermis! It’s not “stuck to the follicle,” it’s the skin itself.

Furthermore, the epidermis is populated with tiny nerve endings that give your skin its amazing sensitivity. These nerve endings are EXACTLY where the telogen hair is “attached” to the skin. This telogen hair is seriously attached to the skin and not easy to tweeze (remember, it’s hard and is the skin itself!). Pull on these “puppies” and they “hurt like the dickens!”

Electrologists removing said “stuck in the skin” very-late-stage telogen hairs seldom can zap them out without a “little tug.” I can’t do it. And, because these are attached to nerve endings, you REALLY feel this “tug.”

As James once said, it’s all about the end results! You know, if the process worked or not and how expensive the job was. Judging a zaparette’s skill by counting “hairs per minute,” or modality, or how the thing feels … well, it’s pretty much useless for the client.

Still, if you ARE feeling a LOT of tweezing that’s a bad indication.

(Note, those tiny lines under the epidermis show the location of nerve endings (they don’t look like that, of course … there are billions of them).

#10

You can sometimes identify telogen hairs not only by color. Another quick drawing illustrates how you can do this.

The anagen hair is anchored in deeper tissue; the telogen is anchored at the surface of the skin. When you tug a bit on the hairs, the anagen hair will pull-up a mound of skin, of course. However, the telogen hair will pull up a much more narrow (skinny) mound.

The anagen hair is pulling up more skin, the telogen much less. I didn’t take much time explaining this, but I think you get the idea: Anagen on the left; telogen on the right.

#11

This is a really useful thread rfa, thanks for posting it.
I think that in the beginning, you need to build a relationship with your electrolysist within which it is easy to ask questions like this.
If you haven’t got this kind of relationship, maybe it is time you tested other practitioners. You don’t say a lot about the circumstances really, but “it seems like a struggle” rings small alarm bells (if you are referring to treatment in general)
There are plenty of times when I struggle but within a close professional relationship I can discuss with my clients what’s going on. I know that they notice when things are not as comfortable or as smooth as usual so if they don’t mention it, I will.
June

#12

For me it’s that simple. If the client feels something, even if it is a slight tug, the follicle has only been partially treated. I do not know any other way to be sure that all the target area has been destroyed, and this happens by breaking the links which hold the hair securely anchored to the walls of the follicle.

Nor even the easy glide ensures there will be no regrowth, but this is the only way we have to be sure that our probe has taken the right path, and enough energy wounded all or most of the target area.

This is just a drawing, but I think it may help to understand.

#13

We have had many detailed discussions on Hairtell about hair sliding, hair popping out and tweezing sensations, so I don’t want to go in that direction again. I will say this: Some of these newer epilator modalities destroy tissue in the lower two thirds of the follicle, without the energy rising to “blast” out a tunnel to the follicle opening. When done correctly, even though the critical area below has been successfully treated, when lifting the hair out, there may be a tight squeeze and slight pop as the plump hair journeys upward through an area that was not opened by the “blast”. This is not for the client to worry about. This is a discussion for electrologists to batter around, thus the meaning of James’ comment above. Capice?

#14

Well, I might as well “windbag” (book-out) a bit more since it’s below freezing outside … oh wait, that’s in my many-years-ago hometown (Buffalo!) … erase erase. (Yesterday it was 73 degrees here.)

Usually, I argue on the “easy slide-out” side, but, as you know I like to argue all sides; so today I’ll argue the “pop-pop fizz-fizz” side. I can think of two situations wherein a “tug” is nearly unavoidable.

(If you are a patient, STOP reading this TWADDLE right now! This is “headache” material!)

Jossie, your drawing is not entirely accurate for very late-stage telogen hairs. I’ve looked at these “in the flesh” and they are shockingly HIGH in the skin … maybe “anchored” at the top 10 - 15% of the skin’s depth (right in the epidermis). And the follicle? It’s so withered you can’t see it!

Few people present the super late-stage telogens, but when they do I don’t think current is going to give you a “perfect release.” How many … maybe one in a few hundred?

The other “tug-job” is from the person who has been tweezing “her” chin hairs for the last 20+ years! I have yet to look at these (biopsy/magnification), but I can only imagine what these follicles look like: grappling hooks in the follicle?

I’m working on a very nice women (owns a shop next to me); on her chin (I couldn’t get out of it). She said, “I’ve been tweezing for 20 years, but now I can’t get them out any more because they ‘break off’.”

NO KIDDING! The first couple clearing I had to max-out the follicles, but really they came out with a tug. The last couple treatments were a “piece of cake.” You know “the drill” on this deal.

#15

First off Michael, since it’s been -27 Celcius ( minus 16 degrees fareinheit) here for at least the last 2-3 weeks and shows no signs of abating, I can honestly say, screw you!It’s so cold even my labrador doesnt want to go outside.

Some hairs though, especially deeply rooted thick terminal hairs, dont come out nicely. If they do regrow, they almost always come back thinner and these DO come out nicely with just the right amount of treatment energy. I have two people I work on who have exactly this type of hair. Roots almost 1/4 inch deep and thick red hair with matching thick roots. I do get “some resistance” but you can tell the difference between one that is going to come out nicely and one that needs just a little more energy. I suppose it’s as Dee says the slightly narrower part at the top of the follicle accomodating such a deep thick root.
I’ve done a little experimentation on these, and cranked up both thermolysis and galvanic component. Sometimes a treat and wait strategy works.There’s a point though when adding more energy is useless. It’s important to note though when a few of these hairs do regrow, they tend to come back thinner, and remove successfully much more easily.My regrowth rate doesnt seem too high either.
I know I’ve taken abit of flack for this opinion but I think some resistance is unavoideable. If you’ve already thrown as much energy as you can at a follicle, and waited to remove the hair, and got the insertion perfect and produced a lye ball the size of a BB and there’s still some minor resistance but the hair comes out intact with a perfect thick root sheath, you’ve pretty much done what you can. If it does regrow, it will come out with little effort.

Seana

#16

You are right Michael. If I had to earn a living with the drawing, I would be in serious trouble.

In my opinion, there are no exceptions. Or for the case of years of tweezing, or to the dried roots of telogen hairs. In the first case there are techniques and strategies to avoid overtreatment such as the technique of double or triple insertion. Or the strategy ask the client to shave the area for a month or so, in order to allow the follicles move towards a more favorable phase.
For the second case (dried roots situated almost in the infundibulum), hydrate the skin a few minutes before you start. This simple gesture achieves miracles.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coWEPLWmYA4&feature=youtu.be

It is obvious that we will not reach a consensus on this issue, however I would not have the feeling of doing a good job if some of the treated hairs had to be forced. But as you well say, the results are what really matter.

#17

My point was somewhat different: at which error rate is it appropriate to change the electrologist?

Example here: the thread starter summed her or his problem up in one single and vague statement. IMO far too little to draw any conclsions on the quality of the work of his/her electrologist. To me it is completly unclear if just a few hairs have not been treated correctly of if that “tugging” occured frequently.

No further clarification by the thread starter. Is that fair to the practitioner in question?

Despite of that it is always a good idea to discuss topics regarding hair growth.

#18

I agree completely with what Beate has said.

You cannot feel one or two “tugs” and go running out the door! This is not fair whatsoever.

If every hair (or most of them) is a real tweeze … yes, time to put on your runnning shoes.

#19

Having been at the receiving end of Josefa’s treatments, the experience during treatment and subsequent results, I can confirm that I have never felt any pluck/tug/pop sensation. Given that most of my fine facial hair was in some stage of telogen and still the hairs slide, there is no doubt on this topic for me. My sister confirms the same and I’d put money on it that all of Josefa’s other clients would say the same.

As an aspiring electrologist, I would want to achieve the same from my own treatments as I have seen enough evidence to convince me that aiming for this kind of release is the way to get closer to a 100% rate of killing hairs. Different hairs/stages require different strategies and mastering this is what makes a skilled electrologist.

This is when what Beate says comes in. Not every electrologist is going to kill every follicle they treat the first time around. One needs to establish what is acceptable and worth the time and money.
If you are genuinely not sure (i.e. it’s clearly not tweezing or a partial tweeze) it can’t be a bad idea to get a test patch done on an part of the body where it will be easy to clear ALL the hairs and monitor the regrowth. This idea has been suggested a number of times to worried readers but I don’t feel it’s getting any uptake. It is such an easy solution to deciding whether or not a given electrologist is worth pursuing treatment with, I don’t know why people are not doing it.

#20

YES!!! Stoppit … agree with all of it.

WHY won’t clients do the “test spot” before they go off and spend thousands of dollars? I suppose they “just want this done” and want simple answers. It’ s all about FAST?

As you say, there really are no simple answers … except "try it out and see if it works!

The average guy would only have to do 2 HOURS to determine the success of his treatments! TWO HOURS!

How to do this has been restated multiple times …