Need some advice, PIC incl.

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#21

Joanie,

You put yourself on the line as you are not anonymous. You are held accountable. You are the brave one.

Then, there are anonymous hair removal laser missionaries who come into the electrolysis threads and try to steer folks away from electrolysis. Is there not enough to say in the laser threads? Who are these anonymous laser hair removal promoters?

You and I are in the trenches. We see folks who tell us the lies that they were told in clinics, the false promises that the laser hair removal promoters make. We know this because we see so many of them after they blew thousands on laser. Many of us know the unethical means by which many laser hair removal practitioners work.

#22

Joanie,

Thanks for your post. I completely understand where you’re coming from and I am also constantly frustrated with how many people are doing laser out there without knowing what they’re doing, and doing it on people who are not good candidates either due to lack of knowledge or just maliciously for the money. That’s basically what createsthe bad rep for LHR. And trust me, this is the first time in my life where I actually felt happy to be very light-skinned with dark coarse hair <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. And yes, PLEASE avoid the clinics that are offering to treat you. And even better, post a list on the laser portion of the forum so that others can avoid them! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

For the person above, what I meant is that in this particular case HE seems to be a good candidate GIVEN the proper research to find a knowledgeable place with an honest knowledgeable laser operator. These forums are great for figuring out which ones those are too. That’s how I got results. It took me 6 months to do my research and select a place that I thought had the best laser and my interests in mind, and I think it paid off.

#23

Joanie,

You put yourself on the line as are not anonymous. You are held accountable. You are the brave one.

Then, there are anonymous hair removal laser missionaries who come into the electrolysis threads and try to steer folks away from electrolysis. Is there not enough to say in the laser threads? Who are these anonymous laser hair removal promoters?

You and I are in the trenches. We see those candidates who are not good laser hair removal candidates and we even see those who are the better candidates and they tell us the lies that they were told, the false promises that the laser hair removal promoters make. Hey, electrolysis isn’t as sexy as laser so many will go to laser first and see us once they blew thousands. Many electrologists know the unethical means by which laser hair removal practitioners work.

Arlene, I guess you haven’t been on these forums as long as we have. I assume you’re referring to me and NoHair since we posted positive info about laser above, so I’d like to address it. Well, I’m not as anonymous as you would think and if you read any of my thousands of posts, you would see that I’m pro-laser AND electrolysis and getting BOTH done, AND participate on both forums. So is NoHair. Plus, there are plenty of people on here who have used both my laser operator and my electrologist, so THEY know exactly who I am. I’m not an electrologist like you or a laser operator, so posting my name won’t get me any business. Since I’m just a consumer, does it really matter? Those who have PM’ed me personally, know my name as well btw. As a consumer removing unwanted hair, I don’t think anyone would want their name floating all over the Internet, don’t you think?

Also, once again, noone’s disputing that there are people who are performing laser who don’t know what they’re doing. There are plenty. BUT there are also good ones as I’ve experienced. And the laser portion of this forum provides consumers with the ways to find those. When we say, a combination of laser and electrolysis might be best in this case, we mean with someone who knows what they’re doing AND using the proper machine (just like with electrolysis). I guess I can repeat this over and over, and “electrolysis promoters” to use your term will continuously overlook it. There are other electrologists here who have seen good results from PROPER laser treatments like Dee, who tries to see what’s in each particular client’s best interests, and recommends they start with laser if that’s the case (yes, considering all factors like skin and hair type, area treated, if there is a good operator in the area available with the proper laser etc). I guess there are always others who dismiss the entire industry, no matter how great a particular clinic might be and how much more beneficial both financially and time-wise it could be for the client, if it takes away from their business. The tone of this entire thread is not saying to do laser only and for every situation, but YOU are saying to do electrolysis only in every situation, no matter what results you’ve seen from laser (I’m sure if other electrologists admit that they’ve seen clients with great results from PROPER laser treatments, so have you.). So who’s promoting what? I think you make it painfully clear.

Btw, not trying to start any argument. This is a repetitive discussion that should be put to rest. I’m just trying to shed some objectivity on the matter here and you implied that NoHair and I had some kind of an alternative motive (which is kind of ridiculous to state since the only people who benefit from posting here are the electrologists with their names and locations stated right there, as in your case).

#24

Hi lagirl,

Like you, I am in favor of doing whatever is best for my clients, including some things that a lot of electrologists might shudder at. A case in point would be with things like brow shaping.

I am using this method myself as I want to be certain that before I have the pattern cast in concrete that I like the shape. What I am doing, and recommend to my clients who want to have their brows permanently shaped is to go to a good estheticist and have the shape waxed first.* If they are happy with the results, I will begin treating the hairs outside the pattern at their regular visits. This generally only takes me a few minutes per treatment and the client is absolutely certain that they like the shape.

If I begin to clear brows and shape them, besides taking about an hour ($65) to do an initial shaping, with only about 30% to 40% effectivity, that percentage of kills will be permanent and, if the client decides they want to go with another shape, there will likely be weak points in the areas I have previously treated.

Conversely, if I get a client that has very fair skin and dark hair, and they ask me about laser, I maintain a list of practitioners that some of my friends have used with good results and will refer them if they desire to go that route. I know that virtually 100% of laser clients will require some degree of electrolysis as it is not safe to work laser anywhere near the eyes. There are also some hairs on most individuals that resist laser. These I can usually eliminate fairly quickly, and if they stick to their schedule, get them to where they want to be within a reasonable time frame. Again, we are limited by the regrowth cycle of the areas of interest.

Realize that I see quite a few TS clients that are working towards RLE as a prerequisite for eventual SRS. They want to become as “passable” as possible (no pun intended) prior to beginning RLE. I fully appreciate the costs involved with transition. I also know that anyone seeking gender transition is usually to the point in their lives where it’s a case of transition or live a very limited, emotionally damaging and painful life in their birth gender. If they can get quicker results with laser then I will be happy to refer these individuals. However, I also maintain a list of practitioners that I consider, and have several negative reports on, to be on the chow wagon, especially with the TG-TS crowd, and I will give anyone who asks “who to avoid” this info.

One thing that I know for a fact is there are a lot of people out there who do everything they can to exploit this group. Most TS are desperate by the time they accept the idea of transition, making them very easy targets of opportunity for those with a gimmick and a slick tongue, making unreasonable statements of what they can do and “promising” results. Most TG-TS are a group that’s not too likely to file complaints or file civil actions for recovery as to do so will usually out them.

They are also a group that generally does not do well with civil actions as they usually wind up having their life dragged through the mud by the lawyers who represent the defendents in civil cases. This also has the effect of prejudicing the juries hearing the cases so it becomes a very humiliating, and usually a minimal, if any, recovery experience.

I guess the main point that I’m trying to make here is that it’s very much a matter of buyer beware when seeking anything related to beauty or gender transition. Unless the guarantees are in writing and the client is capable of producing a preponderence of evidence that the failure of the method was due to negligence on the part of the operator, any type of recovery is very difficult to achieve unless the client has sustained disfigurement or other serious injury. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Sigh…Sometimes I feel very old when I hear some of the things that I’ve heard.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Best regards,
Joanie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

  • While I generally do not make recommendations on this board, I do highly recommend the following estheticist. I have been having her work on my skin for a while and she is very good. She’s also very nice to boot. Karen works at Claudia’s Body and Skin Care Center in Hayward, CA. She can be reached for appointments and consultations at 510-786-2988. She’s the one who shaped my brows and Claudia is doing the electrology. For more info:
    Claudia’s Body and Skin Care Center
#25

thanksf or the picture. it makes things much easier here. my personal opinion is that you don’t have a lot of hair, but some of it is very coarse and dark and your skin is very white. if i were you, i would treat just those areas (avoiding the finer hairs off to the sides etc) with high settings on an alexandrite (like GentleLASE) hair removal laser first, and then finish the stragglers and the finer hairs off to the sides and bottom with electrolysis. i think that would save you some time and money because a bunch of this hair and your skin type is actually very good for laser. you can read NoHair’s posts who has had this area done with great results over 6 yrs ago. I did this for my underarms and bikini as I had a similar situation there. Just remember that laser is not good on finer hair, especially when it comes to upper arms. but treating just those dark coarse hairs first would save you lots of time and money in my opinion.

I can tell you that I have tried 4 different lasers, with about 15-17 treatments being with the GentleLASE and I have actually seen an increase in hair growth in my shoulders, part of back, and upper arms in those areas. I would say about a 400% increase. I believe it is laser induced growth, and although many say that it is rare, I would be very weary to use laser on anything other than the legs and stomach if you are a guy. I’ve read many other instances from other males like me about possible laser induced hair growth on those regions.

I think probably the worst place to get lasered in regards to laser induced growth would be the shoulders and then the upper back. It may be a little cheaper, but if you wanted it completely clear you would have to get electrolysis done in the long run anyway, so might as well do it now. This is coming from a guy who has blown over ten thousand dollars on laser with nothing to show for it, and MUCH MORE hair.

I am like you, I have not tried electrolysis yet so I don’t know if it will work, but I’m going to give it a try. I don’t have hair on my back like you do, but I have probably about the same thickness on my shoulders and upper arms with a little on my back. If you do choose electrolysis keep us informed with how you are doing and try to post pics if you can. Good luck with whatever you chose. I know it must be frustrating to be so young, in shape, and no overweight hormonal issues but yet have so much hair, let me tell you, I know exactly how you feel.