My treatments

Well… here goes

Background
I am a 32 year old male from a town near Amsterdam, The Netherlands. From my mid-teens I have experienced significant body hair growth. The growth on my back, shoulders and the outside of my upper arms, I have come to consider excessive. The hair is course and quite long, similar to pubic hair.

During my late teens I shaved my problem areas, but that got old in a hurry. Needing someone to shave my back for me especially. When I don’t however, the reaction of people when I go to the gym or swimming pool is more than I can handle: pointing, staring, looking away in disgust. I generally don’t care what people think, but I have no intention of being a circus attraction. The past year I have been considering my options, after seeing LHR on TV. This site and the contributions has been really helpful, thanks.

I have come to realize that I am certainly not an ideal candidate. This has also been confirmed by the clinics I have visited for consults. My hair is dark blonde. My body hair is darker, course and densely populated in the areas I want treated. My skin type is II or III. It is quite sensitive to sun, burns easily, but tans with proper sun care. The skin in the areas I want treated has not seen the sun for years and is milky white. I simply do not go outside without a shirt, because of the hair.

Selecting a laser and clinic
Using the information on laser types from this site, I researched the possibilities in The Netherlands. To my surprise, I could not find a single clinic offering Alexandrite.*

I made my choice based my assessment of the clinic and brand of diode laser. The first clinic I visited for a consult uses the Lightsheer, which seems to a well regarded diode on this forum. The technician made an assessment and confirmed that I was not an ideal candidate. He did however guarantee(!!) that I would be completely hair free after about 8 sessions on high settings. Obviously, alarm bells rang. Although I had already decided against this clinic based on his statement, I asked to have a test area treated. The treatment bordered on painful (and I have a high pain threshold). Not only did I decide against that clinic, I also decided that the Lightsheer was not for me.

The second clinic I visited seemed more professional from the get go. I got a consult with clinic’s manager. She did not only made an assessment of my skin and hair type, but got a medical history as well. She warned me that I would never be hair free and would need an above average number of treatments to achieve significant reduction. As the consult went on, it almost seemed like she was trying to discourage me from getting treated. In doing so, she managed to convince me. This clinic uses the Soprano XL. She explained that I would need aggressive treatment and the cooling system of the XL would be beneficial in that regard. Although I remembered that this diode got very mixed feedback on this forum, I decided to go ahead.

We agreed on fee of 380 euro ($490) per session for my back, shoulders and the outside of my upper arms. This is normal price when comparing to other clinics. The only clinics offering a lower price require a 6-treatment advance payment, which I would never consider.

*Last weekend, one week after my first treatment, I actually managed to find a single clinic offering Alexandrite (cynosure apogee 9300, apogee elite 755 and 1064 nm). Based on the price, it seems they know that they have a monopoly position. 800 euro ($1034) per session for back shoulders and upper arms just seems outrageous.

My first treatment
The technician carefully checked if the areas to be treated were properly shaved and shaved a few spots that were missed. Considering this was my first treatment and therefore unknown how my skin would react, she did not want to go higher than 45J. The only thing I felt was the cooling. Forget pain, I literally did not feel a thing. After applying aloe vera gel directly after treatment, she showed me areas on my back with tiny red spots. When the manager enquired how the treatment went and I mentioned I did not feel a thing, the tech reported that she saw “hair follicles popping out of my skin” (not sure if that makes sense). The manager said this was an indication that I was responding to treatment.

My skin did not react to the treatment at all. No redness or sensitivity. The only thing that struck me was a pinprick sensation in the treated areas when I got goosebumbs. That sensation lasted for a few days and seemed to come from the hair follicles that were treated.

It is now two weeks after the session and shedding is at least 50% and counting. Considering this session was at a setting that proved to be low for me, I am quite pleased. I will insist on a higher setting next time. Although the remaining hair is getting quite long, I am going to try to resist the urge to shave for another two weeks. I want to clearly see the results.

Thanks to anyone who took the time to read this post. Any feedback would be appreciated. If I have omitted any relevant information, please let me know.

Based on your skin tone and hair pigment, yes, you should be treated with an Alexandrite laser. However, the 45 Joules and you not feeling anything during the treatment makes me wander whether they used the Apogee 9300 or not. This is ONLY an Alexandrite and it has a 12.5 mm and 15 mm spot size. If they used 45 Joules on an Alexandrite setting, that woould have been EXTREMELY PAINFUL and EXCESSIVE ENERGY>

The Elite is an Alex/Ndyag Combo. I am wondering whether they used 45 Joules at an NDYAG SETTING ( I am pritty sure that’s what they did ). If that’s what they did, your treatment would be not effective.

Please find out the SETTING, SPOT SIZE and WAVELENGTH USED.

I think he ended up going to the clinic using the soprano XL.

Romeo I believe he was treated with the Soprano XL at 45 joules, he said that he found a clinic that had Apogee but didn’t go there due to their crazy price.

Did you feel anything at all with the Soprano XL? Usually the cooling from what I understand is only when it’s not in SHR mode, for areas like face or toes where they are firing one pulse at a time versus the standard 10 per second.

Maybe Odi on here can comment on the joules since I’m not sure what’s normal. Alma’s website says it goes up to 120 joules and I believe when I was treated with it I was on the max settings, so 45 would seem pretty low. If I actually was treated at the highest settings, I didn’t have any cooling system used on me and I still felt nothing, so you definitely should be able to handle higher!

Thanks for the replies. To clarify: Yes, I went for the clinic with the Soprano XL. Sorry for the confusion. I only found the clinic with the Alexandrite one week after my Soprano XL session and it would take a lot of convincing to pay such a crazy price.

The only place I felt some discomfort was on my collarbones. Everywhere else, nothing but the cooling. I am pretty sure a multiple burst setting was used though, because The tech used brushing strokes.

With hindsight, the setting was certainly low for me. The tech did say she treated womens’ armpits at 20-25. I have no other means of comparison. Airing on the side of caution for a first session seems sensible and I am experiencing fairly decent shedding considering. I hope someone can make an informed comment about the settings, but I am definitely going to insist on a higher setting next time.

Just so you know: It’s NEVER wise to start too low with laser. That can thin the hair instead of kill it, and once it’s thinner, then it becomes immune to future laser treatments. Using low settings is also one cause of laser-induced growth (meaning the hair gets worse). It is always advised to use the highest settings possible without burning (using a test patch to there is no chance of a burn). You are so fair, you definitely want to start pretty high. I hope they at least tested higher settings on you at the end of your session so that next time you can start higher than where you did.

Also, it’s a good sign that you’re shedding (the Soprano can be a bit iffy in that department I’ve heard), but don’t get too comfortable. Even the super low settings on the home-device scams can cause shedding. It’s definitely a good sign, but no guarantee that the follicles were even slightly damaged.

Any chance we can get a photo to help advise you on settings for your skin type and hair type?

You def would have been on burst mode, or SHR which is the multiple pulses. That’s the pain free mode which is why it’s odd they’d use the cooling on you. It’s more used like I said on the normal pulse mode for hard to reach areas. That mode isn’t pain free hence the cooling.

You can see on the specs the max settings are 120 joules, which is the only thing I believe can be changed.

http://www.almalasers.com/soprano_xl_specs.jsp

It’s possible that she meant 45 KJ and not actual 45 joules. The machine counts how many pulses used, it’s possible that based on the firmware of the machine it counts KJ (kilo joules) rather than just pulses, I know the Accent i have which is also from Alma does that.

There is no 45 in SHR mode and 45 joules in single pulse mode would feel a lot more than nothing.

When you say cooling i assume they used a Zimmer which is another tube blowing cold air on you?

I hear what you’re saying Kitty. It’s the max I can handle from here on in. Please see some pics below. Keep in mind that shedding has occured and is ongoing in these areas, so density of population is nothing to go by.

Thanks odi, that’s really helpful. I think we can conclude I was not treated with SHR or single pulse. The tech ended her brush stroke on a beep from the machine. That beep could mean a pre-set of 45KJ was reached. Sounds feasible at least. I’ll make sure to ask exactly what the settings mean before my next session. I think the Zimmer was used. I felt very cold air all around the laser spot.

So you’re saying it was beeping constantly and then there was a long beep indicating it’s time to stop?

If there was constant beeping it was subdued, but there was definitely a long beep at the end.

It should be very easy to tell which mode it was. Watch this video, right around 10 seconds they start the laser pulses. I’m pretty sure you’d remember hearing that and if you were treated in this fashion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9yLR5Bb6Iw&feature=related

The hair in both photos looks sparse. The hair in the first photo looks relatively coarse, but the hair in the second photo is both sparse and not very coarse. I would definitely expect only minimal results on the hair in the second photo and average on the hair in the first one.

If those photos are indicative of the hair you had before the treatment, then yeah, the results will be low to mediocre. But he mentioned that this is after a lot of shedding has happened, so hopefully his hair is denser and coarser and these are just the random fine hairs left behind.

There was certainly no beeping anywhere near as loud as that video edo. I distinctly remember a prolonged beep at the end of the linear brushing stroke motion. That beep was also not as loud. Maybe the volume on the XL is lower or adjustable?

Kitty is right on mark. I have no before pics (my mistake). She asked for pics so I took these this morning. The majority of hair on my shoulders and back was similar to my chest hair in coarseness and only slightly less dense. You can see the the edge of my chest in the first pic. The current density is nothing to go by because shedding has occurred.

The volume of the beeping is adjustable.

If I owned the Soprano XL I’d def keep it loud, the beeps sound cool to me I think haha. Either way, beeps or no beeps, you can see in the video they’re clearly passing it back and forth quickly over the same area, beeps or no beeps. In the pulse mode it would just fire once on one area and that’s it. So they’d fire it, move it slightly, fire it, move it slightly, fire it etc similar to any other laser. If they were passing it back and forth many times like the video then it was in SHR mode from what I understand.

I’m afraid it was neither the technique used in the video, nor the other technique you describe edo. My tech used a long slow linear brushing stroke motion. It was similar to how one would paint a fence, or how I use an electric trimmer to trim body hair. The end of the motion was signalled by a prolonged beep. There was certainly overlap, but no passing it back and forth quickly over the same area.

There are only 2 options. How you move the hand piece in SHR mode depends on the technician. Can be long stripes or rectangle areas. I’ve even seen some going in circles but i doubt that could work out…
The general idea is to take an area and blast it with joules, without burning.

My 2nd session

This time around I clearly asked about the settings.
They were as follows:

mode: pulse
b type:[/b] II
fluence: 60 J/cm2
repetition rate: 3 Hz

This session was exactly 8 weeks after the first. I asked for a more aggressive treatment, because I hardly felt anything other than the cooling during my first treatment. That resulted in the fluence of 60 J/cm2, compared to 45 last time. I certainly felt the treatment this time, approaching the limit of my pain-threshold at times. Other than some minor skin sensitivity in places, I experienced no ill-effects the next day.
Looking forward to seeing the results, which will be posted in due course.