My progress so far. Confused with questions.

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
1

After reading through almost the entire electrolysis forum I finally started treatment on my face. I am so glad I found this forum because it really helped me to understand what I should look for in a practitioner, what a realistic goal is and what to expect during and after treatment. I did break one rule already though. I have only gone to one lady who seems good. Read on to find out why I’m going to start looking at other practitioners.

I started treatment on the upper lip, the chin and under my chin. Now I’ve added my lower lip. My electro uses blend on me with a Clarblend ultrablend. She uses gloves and a new ballet gold probe at each session. She showed me her sterilization oven and she sterilizes, bakes and packages her cataphoresis (sp?) rollers after every use. She also has a spore check binder that she uses to send samples to some requlatory agency to check for spores. I live in CA. She is a CPE and goes to conferences. (She recently started doubting whether it helps to spend the $$ and I told her it really shows me that she cares about her business.) She uses a big florescent light and glasses with scopes on them. All sounds good right? Now here is what I’m confused about.

Based on what I’ve read on this forum I feel like I am spending WAY too much time and getting too little results fot the time I’m putting in. I started early July. So far I’ve had at least 25 hours on my lip, chin and under my chin. She will only treat my upper lip for 30 minutes but she will treat it 2-3 times a week if I make the appointments. She gets all the thickest, darkest hairs on my chin and under my chin but there is still a lot of fine black hair left. My upper lip has gotten to full clearance after many, many sessions but now there is a new crop of hair and I feel like I’m always walking around with quite a bit of black (albeit finer and short) hair on my upper lip. I do have very dense hair on my upper lip but I feel like this is not right based on my reading. I’m also confused by the fact that now my hair is finer than it used to be and she has downgraded probe size to a #2. I thought that once treated the hair never comes back. Why am I getting finer growth? Shouldn’t it be all coarse hair until there is none coming back?

When I began, I was going every 2 days for a hour. Then I started going every third day for 2 hour sessions. Now I go about every 3 or 4 days for 1.5 to 2 hours but usually it’s 2 hours. She tells me that because I’m going so much I am as far in my treatments as a person would be in December 2008 if they started when I did but only came in an hour a week. I thought that by December a person treating an hour a week could expect to go at least a week or more between sessions without a lot of regrowth. I can’t go more than 4 days without having to hide out in my house due to hair growth. She uses a high setting on me and says I am really easy to work on because of my high tolerance for pain. The only after effects I have seen are redness, bumpy looking skin, whiteheads, dryness/flaky skin, occasional scabs and red hole-looking marks. Not all at once of course! So what is wrong with my treatment?

2

Ok, well if you started in early July and it is presently late August, and it has taken you many, many sessions to get a full clearance as you stated you have to be a little more patient. The frequency that you are going is often(which could account for the amount of hair you have or the speed of the electrologist) but the duration with regards to the hair cycle is short.

Also not all hairs can be killed in the first try depending on the thickness. Coarser hairs sometimes need to be broken down, which can attribute to your finer growth.

Also from my own personal experiences which are many especially in southern cali, going to an electrologist with a CPE and goes to the conferences means diddly. Two of the worst electrologists that I have ever gone to were CPE. It’s always good to sample around and see what services you have in your area.

3

I’m in agreement with your last paragraph caligent.

When is the last time you tweezed your upper lip and chin, caligirl?

You are only in the beginning of your electrolysis journey. So, yes, do be patient. However, know that while blend offers a great way to permanently remove hair, it takes longer to get a first full clearance. Finding a skilled MicroFlash or PicoFlash thermolysis electrologist will speed this along and you will not be spending this amount of time for first full clearance. Maintenance sessions will be faster, too. I don’t have any idea how much hair you have, so it would not be fair of me to judge how well she is progressing. All I can say is that there are newer generations of professional epilators that can make electrolysis a lot easier and speed this along within very acceptable limits.

Please consider getting other short sessions with different electrologists so you can compare comfort, speed and skin reaction. Don’t cut yourself short on this. Seek and then seek some more.

Never expect to be be finished before 9-12 months because of HAIR GROWTH CYCLES. Read about how hair grows and then read about it ten more times. This is the hardest concept for most people to comprehend. The hair comes in wave after wave for about 6-7 months, then things start to calm down dramatically. It scares clients because they think it is the same hair that was treated three weeks ago. They begin to feel utterly depressed as those waves of new hairs take their turn to come to the surface. They begin to doubt that electrolysis is working. It seems impossible for one to have so much hair with one group present and another group waiting to push through in a couple days and then another group ready to come forth after that. You have only just begun. What I think could be better for you is if you would continue seeking out and comparing treatments with more electrologists to see what possibilities lie before you with computerized epilators as oppossed to older, but still effective epilators.

Dee

4

Thanks for your responses.

Caliagent: Thanks for reminding me that coarse hairs may need to be broken down first. I took photos after only a few sessions and the difference in the type of hair is amazing. I used to have lots of coarse, thick black hair. Some were really rooted deeply from over a decade of tweezing. Now they are much finer. I thought blend was best for these hairs and I see I made the right choice.

Dee: The last time I tweezed was July 3, 2008. My first session was July 5, 2008 and she had enough to work on for an hour. I really wanted blend after reading about all of the horrible after effects so many people have with flash. I have dark skin that pigments VERY easily so I chose blend. Also, I work in the legal profession and deal with people at close range daily. I knew from this forum that blend would take longer but I never thought I would be spending 4 hours per week on such a small area and not seeing a completely hair free area. I did and still do understand why it will take a minimum of a year to complete these areas. I guess I thought with the amount of treatment time I have been putting in at the very least I could have a clear chin and lip. I don’t doubt electro works and I am definitely going to shop around. I just wanted to hear reactions/thoughts on my experience since so far I have spent a LOT of money on such a small area and I have such a long way to go. Thank you for your time and your response. Why did you want to know when I stopped tweezing? How does that affect my current state? I know the answer is probably obvious so I apologize in advance. BTW I have never cheated with tweezers. I know better from all of you! Thanks again.

5

So I am shopping other electrologists in my area for various reasons. I have a question about thermolysis. Based on the reading I did in this forum I thought blend would be best for my facial hair since I have been tweezing my lip and chin including under the chin daily for about 15 years. The hairs are tough, black and very coarse. There are also a lot of them. I also have a lot of fine black hair all over my face and under my face that can grow to be pretty long if I don’t do something about them. I even have fine black hair on my forehead! I have been waxing my face for many years but the hairs that were waxed but not tweezed do not seem to be tougher. I am dark skinned and prone to hyperpigmentation, another reason I chose blend.

I am willing to try thermolysis and in fact I have a consultation tomorrow with a woman who is going to try galvanic, blend and thermolysis on me. I’m wondering if based on my hair if I should stick with blend or do a combo of blend for the coarser hair and thermolysis for the rest. Right now I have enough hair for hours at a time of blend. I am not even worrying about the finer hairs quite yet. What are your opinions?

6

Your electrologist will see you and know what to do. Blend would be fine, but if a skilled thermolysis electrologist got a hold of you, you would still have a great outcome. I like thermolysis for the it’s ability to clear the hair off fast. Don’t let anyone tell you it doesn’t work. It does work, but your electrologist has to do what she feels competent and comfortable with, Amen.

Dee

7

So I saw a new lady today. I like my other lady better but she’s so far away. This new lady uses thermolysis (not flash). She calls it alternating current. She uses “disposable” probes if you ask otherwise she reuses probes after sterilizing them. I thought they are all disposable?? I asked for a new "disposable probe. I know she used a size 2 uninsulated probe but I don’t know what kind. She does not use gloves (but she washed her hands first) which is sort of disturbing especially considering she drew a tiny prick of blood twice during our sesison. She also started coughing during our session and didn’t wash her hands before resuming. She told me that blend is only necessary for curly hair or curved follicles. She said there is absolutely no reason to use blend on an upper lip because she has never seen a curved hair follicle on an upper lip. She did an hour on me. She used a florescent light and 5x magnification glasses. I felt like she took a LOT of time between hairs stretching my skin, moving it around and changing positions. I didn’t feel any plucking and she said the hairs were coming out really, really easily. She even showed my a few hairs with the bulb and sheath still on. She was so interested in going after the hairs I don’t know if she realized her stomach was smashed against the top of my head, her hands were all over my face smashing my nose, mouth etc. It was almost comical. I was really surprised given the amount of time she took between hairs to find that she cleared the same area as my blend gal in half the time! I have an appointment with another person next week. In the meantime i have a few questions.

  1. Is it true there are disposable and non-disposable probes?
  2. Is it true that blend is only necessary if you have curved hairs or hair follicles?
8

Question one: yes

Question two: Blend is good for curvey hairs, but so is thermolysis when performed expertly. I see many African decent females with curly hair. I do not use blend and they end up with permanent hair removal in a year or so. I used MicroFlash thermolysis, and now use PicoFlash thermolysis. It works like a charm. Insertions have to be correct, probe size has to be correct and energy and timing levels have to be correct. Computerized epilators are awesome for this task. Those that preach otherwise, saying blend is best, has not experienced these advanced forms of thermolysis. Thermolysis works, too, but if she is comfortable and competent using blend, then that is a good modality as well even though it takes longer per hair follicle.

Sorry you got your face “smashed in”. Tell her about it. She should know.

Dee

9

Thank you. :slight_smile:

10

I saw a third electrologist tonight. She did blend using a fresh ballet gold probe and a Fischer SE-5 computerized epilator on me. She said she got 340 hairs in an hour. Assuming the insertions were accurate, is that a good, bad or average number of hairs? I am concerned about my treatment. Aside from the big dogs running around the treatment room (yes, I’m serious) it hurt like hell! I know I’m pretty tough when it comes to pain because both of the other electrologists I have been to commented on how high my threshold for pain is. She admitted she uses a high setting. The numbers on the digital display read 52 and 93. What does that mean? I had a lot of coarse hair on my face some of which the bleach would not lighten. I am very swollen and my chin still hurts almost 4 hours later. She didn’t even get to my lip but she cleared my chin and under my chin of all the coarse black hair. I am desperate to get my lip hairs off so I am going to see her again tomorrow morning.

My other question relates back to what is better for me thermolysis or blend. I thought blend was better for several reasons but now I’m torn. I originally wanted blend because I was concerned with after effects of thermolysis. I have olive skin that hyperpigments very easily and I already have quite a bit of hyperpigmentation on my lip and chin from years of aggressive tweezing. Add that to the shadow from the hair and I look like a man. I didn’t want to make it worse. I also chose blend because I have a LONG history of tweezing (15 years) and my hairs are very strong and firmly rooted. Finally, I know that blend is more forgiving of slightly inaccurate insertions and to be honest I don’t really trust the practitioners in my area. Of the 3 I have been to so far, I only really have complete faith in one and she does blend! However, the second lady I went to did thermolysis and I really liked the results. She is closer to my home and has more availability. I had no after effects. I just wonder if thermolysis is effective for hairs like mine that have been tweezed for many, many years. I also want to know how would I be able to tell whether or not her insertions are totally accurate?

To recap my questions:

  1. What do the numbers 52 and 93 mean on a Fischer SE-5 and what do you think of the treatment I received from her?
    2)Assuming accurate insertions is 340 hairs in an hour a good/bad/average number of hairs for a computerized Fischer doing blend?
  2. Given my proneness to hyperpigmentation and my 15+ year history of tweezing, would it be wise to switch from blend to thermolysis?
    4)How can I tell if a person using thermolysis is making perfect vs. inaccurate insertions?

TIA, sorry for the long post

11

I don’t have experience with the fischer machines, but it is probably time, HF intensity and/or DC intensity. I’d venture a guess the 93 is 0.93mA (DC setting, with a max of 0.99mA), the 54 is 5.4 seconds or 54 whatever units the fischer uses to measure HF.

At 0.93mA, the treatment would really sting (as oppose to an overwhelming burn sensation.) I use 0.90-0.95 on my arm for a duration of 5 seconds (along with some amount of HF) and it can really smart sometimes. It would explain why it is so sore, but some soreness and swelling are normal. My upper and lower lip is swollen and red for about a day after.

Blend is generally best for distorted follicles, but thermo can also be as effective if the electrologist is skilled with that modality. My facial hair is badly distorted from plucking (and much much thicker than yours would be) but the pros use flash or picoflash on me and it works great. Thermo of any stripe is also faster than blend.

In my experience, if the insertion if off, you will be a painful prick sensation as the needle is inserted and just before current is applied (which happens really fast with a pro at the wheel, you will have to watch for it.)

340 hairs an hour, with blend, is pretty good! I wish I could do that many in an hour.

12

Thanks for your quick reply Vickie. I was really worried because my chin still hurts and has some areas that feel firm. I’ve never had a reaction like this. Before I left she told me that if I felt areas harden I should alternate ice and warmth. WTF???

What is HF? What about mA? The DC is the lye right? The AC is the heat?

It really did hurt but the pain was like a sharp stabbing that was hot. It did sting too. I literally winced many times and I can take quite a bit of pain.

13

Permanent hair removal causes tissue damage. That’s what we intend to do. Only by destroying the hair growing portion of the follicles can we get what you have paid us to do for you. The body heals tissue damage by flooding the are with blood to seal the area, and then rebuild the damaged structures. This flood of blood in the area causes the area to expand in size. If this happens on your cheek, or the area below your tongue, there is room for it to expand both inside the body, and outside the body. On the chin, on the other hand, there is no way to go but out, as the bone keeps the swelling from moving in the direction of the bone. In this case, all swelling will go outward.

There are only two ways to deal with this, either remove fewer hairs at a time, and therefore take much longer to get to full clearance, or strip it all and deal with a massive swelling event that can be handled with proper post treatment care. Alternating cold and warm compresses is a great way to do this, in conjunction with Tea Tree Oil, Aloe, Witch Hazel, Calamine, Emu Oil, or any number of other healing potions.

Some people who do blend treatments insert the probe while it is turned on. If this is done, the probe is inserted “Hot” and one would feel it going in and all the way down. This is just one more possibility to add to what Vicky said.

HF = High Frequency = Thermolysis = Diathermy = Treatment energy in watts of the Radio Frequency used to treat you (Radio Frequency is also called RF)

Galvanic energy causes the lye production, and galvanic energy is measured in Milliampheres, or mA’s. Blend treatments use Galvanic energy for lye production and thermolysis energy to catylize the lye production, and speed up the process, so that what would take 60 seconds or more, happens in about 7 seconds.

14

Thanks James. Can you answer my other questions about 4 posts above?

I cancelled by upper lip appointment for this morning. I’m just not ready for more torture. My chin feels much better this morning. It isn’t even tender but more like a little numb. It is however still swollen.

I have only been doing electro for 2 months, but in that time I always had my entire chin cleared of all (or as many as time would allow) of the offending hairs chin and lip hairs but I have never had this reaction. I have always done at least an hour at a time and the areas have always been lip, chin and under chin. Sure I have been a little swollen before but never like this. I guess I’ll stick with the other two ladies but I wondered why I got such a bad reaction from this person’s treatment.

15

It is hard for me to answer this post after hearing about the big dogs running around. I’m still trying to adjust to that comment. Did you lay on her dining room table for your treatment as well??? Joke. What other profession would consider this kind of setup? Shameful and hopefully, reportable to a higher authority?

Blend is fine. Explaining levels on her epilator is not helpful. She can see you and is the one invovled with your unique situation. She determines how many units of lye to fill your follicles with by sizing up your hair structures. I have found that blend is less desirable from my clients pont of view, in regard to pain. They prefer MicroFlash/ PicoFlash thermolysis. The newer brand epilators have these modalities. They offer the advantage of less sensation and better skin outcome.

Typically, when a client first presents herself/himself with tough facial hair, I give them two choices. One, we can clear all the hair in a marathon session and they are warned that they will be swollen, tender and red for 2-4 days, Or… we can scatter the work over several weeks and go after hair starting with very coarse hair, then coarse, then medium, then fine accelerated hair. The choice is theirs. I could never have offered the first option if I was using an older epilator. It would have been too painful and the healing would have taken much longer. Newer generation epiltaors, when used properly, are easier to bare on the sensation side of things and the healing side is much better. One has to be skilled. One needs good vision equipment and quality lighting to pull this off. I would bet that you would have had your lip cleared in addition to your chin and under chin if properly applied MicroFlash or PicoFlash thermolysis was performed. She doesn’t have this setup, so you are limited to going on with the way she performs electrolysis.

You really need to give her feedback about everything you mentioned here. Maybe she will make adjustments. If you don’t want the dogs in the room, throw that into the feedback bag, too. Or…

you can just go back to the second lady who you like. Thermolysis works and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. You may give up if all your treatments are as painful as this last one. You need relief from your upper lip hairs and a good thermolysis practitioner can kill hair as well as a good blend practitioner. Decent speed is important, but accurate insertions are more important. We electrologists all have our comfort levels and strategies for destroying hair tissue. Some cases are very difficult and some are easy, and though speed is helpful, it should not pre-occupy your thoughts. With that said, 340 hairs (insertions) sounds good.

Overtreatment can excite those pigment cells and cause hyperpig, but even the best treatments with a skilled electrologist can, too. If you are prone to to hyperpig, then it will happen. Be sure to avoid the sun and wear a sunscreen or sunblock product about a week after treatment and perform good aftercare.

Perfect insertions should not feel like you are being pricked with pin. We are not perfect everytime we insert as hard as we try, but you shouldn’t constantly feel a prick sensation before the current is released. The hair should slide out easily, but some hairs that are in the shedding stage may resist a bit in the beginning stages or some hairs with big roots may feel like they are popping out. Hard to describe, so discuss this with lady #2 if you go back to her. She can show you actual hair bulbs and explain this as she goes along removing hair.

You did well by seeing three electrologists. This is why we urge people to get as many consults and treatments they can so they can rate and settle on the electrologist that performs the best. Dogs in the room is a good reason to switch to #2. By the way, I deeply love dogs.

Dee

16

The dogs in the same room while you are being worked on is kind of bizarre. I wonder why an operator would allow that?

James, I always wondered, why don’t epilators give the operator a way to set the HF in watts the same way they can choose how much DC to use in mA? Instead, I remember my older Instantron just giving an arbitrary scale from 1 to 10, and my Apilus lets me set a percentage of the maximum power output. Maybe all epilators have the same wattage range as they do the same range in milliamps (0.0 -1 .0?)

Given my background I am a bit embarassed to ask, I am sure the answer is obvious, but I always wondered.

17

The answer to your question is “Tradition.” (Cue Topel and the boys from the “Fiddler On The Roof” Chorus :wink: )

In the old days, the manufacturers played to the idea that one designed the machine to be used with the least understanding of how it worked that one could possibly create. It was also too cumbersom to list the intensity in watts and have that painted on by machine on the control boards. This is why electrolysis practitioners say that telling them the settings used by your last worker is meaningless to them, as unless one were using the same machine, it just doesn’t help you.

Even if one were able to convert the setting into energy and translate that into your electrolysis machine, one would still have to adjust from there, as the body one is bringing changes every day, and the machine used, and techniques and skill of the practitioner also figure into this equation. For instance, someone with a more shallow insertion will use more power than someone with a deeper insertion and more precise placement.

So, at the risk of saying the unpopular, the machines don’t say 2.4 watts of radio frequency energy at 13.5 mHz because of the idea that women don’t like the math & science they would have to understand to make that setting meaningful, and would rather think of it as somewhere between 6 and 7 on a stereo knob machine, and 60% on an Apilus set up.

18

The lady with the dogs, I’ll call her electro #3, works out of her home. Trust me, if I wasn’t so desperate to have a treatment I would have run out of there! I had a lot of hair on my face, it was a Friday and I could not find anyone to treat me before I had to go to work Monday morning. Her home was sort of warm, it smelled like dogs, her table and machine were set up in an area that was not separated by a door so the dogs were free to roam in the room. The tv was blaring so I asked her to switch it to soothing music. She proceeded to blast very shrill jazz. I was grounded and the wet thing was an old, stained, dirty looking sponge. Even during the extremely painful treatment I wanted to run away. I now appreciate the first electrologist I went to, electro #1, so much more. I will never go back to electro #3.

I booked an appointment with electro #1 yesterday to finish the lip. She is a little slow but her insertions seem mostly accurate and her office is SO clean. Plus the fact that she bothers with the CPE and continuing education makes me feel good. She is the only one of the 3 I went to that is a CPE (I know this doesn’t mean an electro is any good) and the only one that uses scopes. Her office is also the cleanest looking. By the way, before booking with electro #1 (blend) yesterday I left a message with electro #2 (thermolysis) to see if she could fit me it. When she called back I had just booked with electro #1. Electro #2 was upset I booked with another electro. She started prattling on about how she is the only electro in town with low intensity current and that high intenisty is bad and doesn’t work as well even though it looks like it works because it clears you quickly… She is a little odd. I reminded her I was going to my out of town lady , electro #1, that has the exact same Clareblend Ultrablend that electro #2 has. I didn’t mention that electro #1 uses blend on me because electro #2 already told me she thinks it is unethical to use blend on someone that doesn’t have curly hairs because all it does is make treatment longer so the elctro makes more money.

My lip treatment with electro #1 last night felt very gentle after the horror I experienced on Friday. Today my lip has about 3 whiteheads. However, my chin now has little pinpoint scabs from Friday’s atrocious treatment with electro #3 (very hot blend).

19

Clean hygenic office + CPE + good magnification = winner. Blend does work best on curly hairs, and thermo (or flash thermo, micro or picoflash) would be faster, if she is all of those things you say and well skilled with blend, I’d stick with her. Blend works fine with non-curly hairs, it is just slower.

The line from electro #2 about low current being better than high sounds a bit… well… ridiculous. There is more to it than just the intensity level, there is timing, quality of insertion, her skill, modality used etc. While one could use a lower intensity, it will take more time (and cost you more money) and may not be less painful. In fact, I have had picoflash (very high energy with a very tiny amount of time per hair) and it was almost painless, even on sensitive areas and it worked as well as any other modality did in the same area. Sounds like electro #2 is long overdue for some of those CEUs :wink:

If you ever absolutely have to go back to electro #3 (I wouldn’t recommend it), ask her to use electrode gel instead of the sponge on the electrode (ground) you hold, or opt for a bare metal electrode (it might irritate your skin, personally I use it bare just fine.)

20

Please make sure that you are putting your Tea Tree Oil on overnight at least the night after treatments, and maybe the first 3 nights after treatment. It will usually keep you from having white puss bumps.