Male with fur (y)

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Thanks for this great place, where you can find some true informations about hair removal.

I’m 22 yo male from Sofia (Bulgaria). I have some african background (thus brown skin).
I’ve been reading this forum for 3 years. Reason of my fury is… of course fur.
My problem with hair has rather fundamental influence on my life.
I’m covered with hair from toe to head. I mean literally.
Not just some pleaces: not just back and abdomen but also
sides, not just chest and back, but also shoulders, collar-bone,
not just calfs and thighs but also knees, and so on, and so on…
2-3 years ago I was able to trim this “fur” and move on.
But now, these are coarse and thick hair, which feel like harsh, dense
brush after any trimming, so this permament pricking and pinching is quite painful
and “crazy-driving”. Of course pubic area is similar or even worse, yes for sure worse.
So we are not talking about some fuzzy patches here and there.
It is harsh, full-body, hair suit.

This constant discomfort (scratching, pricking etc) feels like you
were wearing some full-body suit made of harsh hay or wires 24/7. You know what I mean?
Several years ago I thought that even if this would progress and I
grew full-body hair-suit I would be able to lead normal life.
But now I can’t wear normal clothes, I cant’t even move or sit easily without some
kind of discomfort, I have to spend lots of time on trimming, shaving etc
My social life is destroyed, but what bother me most is that even my mental abilities
are going down because this 24/7 fight with this problem.
When I want to do something (like reading or sth) I can’t focus, because
this constant scratching, pricking etc around neck, chest, back, sides, legs, hands, arms etc
is driving me crazy

Shaving is last resort, it causes razor bumps, very bad ingrowns, etc
not mentioning that after shaving my skin is on fire,
despite using aloe vera, witch hazel and so on.
I tried everything, but now I now that with so dense, coarse, curly hair it won’t work
as for those people from TV ads. It’s just not a common case. And I only use electric shaver,
using blades would be like using knife (M3 Power or disposable - same effect).

I don’t wax, because I would like to use some permament solution in the future and
from this board I found out that this can strengthen hair (although mine are strong
as wire).

Ok, now is the most important part. I would like to know, from some CPE professionals
and people who heard about such cases, if I can count on electrolysis? Is it
possible to successfuly treat such cases? Are there some clinic in USA (I don’t count
on Bulgaria or even Europe), where from fair (I don’t mean small) amount of money,
you can be treated, let say, by 2-3 professionalists?
When I read here that some females try to clear only legs or face, and it takes them
several years I feel that my case is rather hopeless. Ok, I know that women face
is very difficult example, but if it is, my face must be a total disaster.

I must say, that I gain some hope from James Walker’s posts, when he wrote that
he treated really difficult cases and is able to make an important first clearance quite fast.

I have faced up to high costs of electrolysis. But for me, is like spending money on
heart transplantation or some very expensive, life saving, medicaments. So money don’t bother me.
I would do everything to get out of this nightmare.

So I would really appreciate if you told me how chances looks like, in such case like mine.
I know that it’s hard to say without seeing me, but I thing that I wrote a lot about my case
and there are a lot of “funny” (not for me) pictures of guys with full-body hair, like fur,
so it’s not hard to imagine. And CPE professionalist must have seen everything so they
know what I mean.

Thank you for reading this. And I will be grateful for every information, kind word and your
advices.

Bye

p.s.

Sorry for my English. I’m still learning.

#2

your English is great and you express yourself very well.

My first question would be: do you know the cause of this extreme hair growth on your body? do you believe it’s hereditary?

My personal thoughts on your situation is that with electrolysis alone, it will take you years to achieve removal of the hair your describe. It’s not impossible, but will take a lot of time, committment, and of course money. This is always controversial advice here, but if I were you, I would start by having a set of treatments with a YAG laser (because your skin is darker, but hair is still dark and coarse) first to thin out the hair enough so that it’s manageable for electrolysis to do its job. Since your hair is coarse and dark, you should be able to see a good reduction after a set of treatments. Personally, considering all of this is going to cost you at least several thousand dollars, I would go this route first to get the bulk of the hair. Then, find a good electrologist to finish the job on the remaining weaker finer hair etc. You do need a good YAG laser like GentleYAG or Coolglide and an experienced knowledgeable technician to do this.

you can learn more about laser and what’s the best way to get results by reading the FAQs: www.hairremovalforum.com/faq.cfm

Are you planning to travel to the US for this, is that why you’re asking about US practitioners? This process will take a couple of years…so not sure how feasible it is to travel back and forth if that’s your thought…

#3

Electrolysis will work for any kind of hair, but your problem is the amount of hair. Having brown skin does not exclude you from laser therapy, but makes the task a little more difficult. Both modalities used together could be helpful to speed of the process. You should be advised to focus on an area of priority. But, as I thought about your situation, I’m concerned about the amount of hair you describe and it appears that a medical consultation is in order.

Laser and electrolysis can help. There are places here in the US that can work on you very fast to remove the hair and others can point them out to you. James Walker the seventh (certified professional electrologist)here on hairtell is very, very good with the speed factor and in the advice area if you want to fly over!

Also, I’m preoccupied with going another level with this and mentioning that you should immerse yourself in the research that is going on in Europe and the United States and perhaps becoming part of a clinical study. There is one clinical study happening now that I will mention in a minute.

A lot of hair research centers focus on hair loss, but through this research, the mystery to solving hypertrichosis (too much hair) could very well be solved at the cellular level, as well. This is the hope of many. Sirna Dermatology (Boulder,Colorado) is involved with researching and developing a way to to deliver “agents” at the cellular level that interfers with the messenger part of the cell, RNA, that will interfer with hair cells duplicating. Dr. Christiano’s research has been acquired by SiRNA for hopefully applying her work in relation to providing permanent hair removal at the cellular level for people like yourself with copious amounts of hair. She is a board member of Sirna Therapeutics. Her profile is listed below.

I am mentioning another level of involvement, the research side of things, because of the amount of hair you describe. I have not seen any clinical studies that are recruiting patients yet, however, The University of Jena (Germany) will be ready to go for a study they are doing for hypertrichosis using photodynamic therapy, but it is still not open for patient recruitment yet. Maybe you could apply and participate at the appropriate time?

I have sent your post to Dr. Christiano as a gesture to remind her how people with copius amounts of hair suffer in their daily lives and how they would honor her and her work forever if she could find a safe and effective way to rid them of too much hair - safely.

You will have to snoop around on your own to involve yourself in what hope awaits you for the future.

www.clinicaltrials.gov (U.S.) can be a start.

Dee

Here is a profile of Dr. Angela Christiano, Associate Professor of Dermatology and Gene Development at Columbia University in New York.

Education and Training
Ph.D. 1991 Rutgers University
Postdoctoral Fellow 1991-95 Jefferson Medical College

Affiliations
Department of Dermatology
Department of Genetics & Development
Stem Cell Consortium

Training Activities
Training Program in Genetics & Development
Integrated Program in Cellular, Molecular & Biophysical Studies
MD/PhD Program

Angela M. Christiano, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Molecular
Dermatology and Genetics & Development

Research Summary
Molecular basis of inherited skin and hair disorders in humans and mice.
Christiano Lab

The major focus of our research is the study of inherited skin and hair disorders in humans and mice, through a classical genetic approach including identification and phenotyping of disease families, genetic linkage, gene discovery and mutation analysis, and functional studies relating these findings to basic questions in epidermal biology. Our interests include transcriptional regulation of hair cycling and differentiation, the biology of cadherin-mediated cell adhesion junctions known as desmosomes, and the morphogenesis epidermal appendages such as hair and teeth. A long-range goal of our research is to develop genetic and cell-based therapies for skin and hair diseases through understanding disease pathogenesis. We are using epithelial reprogramming as a therapeutic approach for inherited skin diseases.

In addition to human congenital alopecia, mutations in this gene also underlie the hairless and rhino phenotypes in mice. Hairless appears to have a multitude of functions, and its relationship to thyroid hormone, transcriptional co-repression and apoptosis, among other cellular events, is currently under investigation.

Selected Publications:

  1. Ahmad, W., ul Haque, M.F., Brancolini, V., Tsou, H.C., ul Haque, S., Lam, H.M., Aita, V.M., Owen, J., deBlaquiere, M., Frank, J.A., Cserhalmi-Friedman, P.B., Leask, A., McGrath, J., Peacocke, M., Ahmad, M., Ott, J. and Christiano, A.M. (1998) Alopecia Universalis Associated with a Mutation in the Human hairless Gene. Science 279:720-724.

  2. Frank, J., Pignata, C., Panteleyev, A.A., Prowse, D.M., Baden, H., Weiner, L., Gaetaniello, L., Ahmad, W., Pozzi, N., Cserhalmi-Friedman, P.B., Aita, V.M., Uyttendaele, H., Gordon, D., Ott, J., Brissette, J.L. and Christiano, A.M. (1999) Exposing the Human Nude Phenotype. Nature 398:473-474.

  3. Reynolds, A.J., Lawrence, C., Cserhalmi-Friedman, P.B., Christiano, A.M. and Jahoda, C.A.B. (1999) Trans-gender Induction of Hair Follicles. Nature 402:33-34.

  4. Djabali, K., Aita, V,M, and Christiano, A.M. (2001) Hairless is translocated to the nucleus via a novel bipartite nuclear localization signal and is associated with the nuclear matrix. J. Cell Science 114:367-376.

  5. Panteleyev, A.A., Jahoda, C.A.B. and Christiano, A.M. (2001) Hair Follicle Predetermination. J. Cell Science 114:3419-3431.

  6. Kljuic, A., Bazzi, H., Sundberg, J.P., Martinez-Mir, A., O’Shaughnessy, R., Mahoney, M.G., Levy, M., Montagutelli, X., Ahmad, W., Aita, V.M.,Gordon, D., Uitto, J., Whiting, D., Ott, J., Fischer, S., Gilliam, T.C., Jahoda, C.A.B., Morris, R.J., Panteleyev, A.A., Nguyen, V.T. and Christiano, A.M. (2003) Desmoglein 4 in hair follicle differentiation and epidermal adhesion: Evidence from inherited hypotrichosis and acquired pemphigus vulgaris. Cell 113:249-260.

Current Projects

  1. Epithelial Reprogramming
    We instead asked whether we could identify an ectopic source of epithelial cells that could be induced into becoming a skin stem cell. Rather than searching for markers of the epidermal stem cell itself, we asked whether we could reprogram other epithelia into skin under the appropriate inductive (dermal) influences.
    National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
    9/2002-5/2004

  2. Functional Analysis of the Hairless Protein
    We have combined our preliminary studies with several emerging lines of biological data to formulate a hypothesis which asks three questions. First, is hairless a DNA-binding protein, and if yes, what is its signature sequence? Secondly, is hairless a transcriptional coactivator, and if yes, what are its interaction partners? Finally, what are the downstream targets of hairless gene regulation? We anticipate that this approach will allow us to gain novel insights into the function of the hairless protein for the first time.
    National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
    9/2001-7/2006

  3. Molecular genetics of the keratodermas
    The project consists of three integrated and interdependent aims. The first one is to search for mutations in eleven candidate genes in a small number of families with a characterized inherited keratoderma. The second is to identify the mutated genes in large pedigrees with well-characterized, dominant, and fully penetrant keartodermas, one with EB superficialis, the other “Novel Acantholytic Disease.” The third is to isolate and characterize genes that play a role in epidermal differentiation.
    National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
    7/1998-3/2009

  4. Gene therapy model of dystrophic epidermolysis bullosa
    National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
    9/1995-6/2006

Honors and Awards

2001 New York City Mayor’s Award for Excellence in Science and
Technology - Young Investigator’s Award
2001 Doctor Harold and Golden Lamport Research Award for “Excellence
In Clinical Sciences”, Columbia University, New York, NY
2003 CERIES Research Award

Committee, Council, Professional Society Memberships

1996-Present Editor, Experimental Dermatology, Munksgaard International Publishers, Inc.
1995-Present Board of Trustees, DEBRA (Dystrophic E.B. Research Association) of America
2000-2005 Member, Society of Investigative Dermatology, Committee on Scientific Programs
2001-Present New York Skin Biology Club
Co-founder and Meeting Co-chairperson
2003-Present Chair, Gordon Conference on Epithelial Differentiation and Keratinization
2003-Present Associate Editor, Journal of Clinical Investigation
American Society for Clinical Investigation

Keywords
keratinocyte, hair follicle, epidermis, hair cycle, dermal papilla, reprogramming, plasticity, epidermolysis bullosa, genetic disorder, transcription factor, cadherin, cell-cell adhesion, adult stem cells.

#4

To lagirl:

your English is great and you express yourself very well.

Very kind of you

My first question would be: do you know the cause of this extreme hair growth on your body? do you

believe it’s hereditary?

It’s hard to say for me. I know only few male relatives in my family.
They may be more hairy then average, but it is still normal, common,
nothing even close to what I had to deal with even before I was 20 yo.
Is heredity important in solving hair removal problem like this?

(…)if I were you, I would start by having a set of treatments with a YAG laser (because your skin

is darker, but hair is still dark and coarse) first to thin out the hair enough so that it’s

manageable for electrolysis to do its job.

This is what I have been thinking about. I can’t imagine that inserting probe in every
single folicle (propably more than once) on entire body (in my case literaly) would ever end.
I think, that lots of people are disappointed with LHR, because they expect (probably
due to LHR ads and so on) that laser will kill every single hair on treated area.
I would be very happy, just to weaken these harsh hair covering my body and get ride only some
part of them, to such level, that I would feel comfortable (not psychically but simply physically).
Then I could move to electrolysis. But on the other hand I read about those laser burns,
I hear that laser can even stimulate hair growth (hense its use for hairloss problem).
I am aware that these are partly gossips, spread by unsatisfied patients,
some are effects of unskilled practitioners or scamers.

But one thing is certain, electrolysis is the only officaly approved permament hair
removal method. Therefore I’m rather closer to allway electrolysis option, even if
it will take more time and money. But I am still uncertain and opinions like yours
let me think about “laser then electrolysis option” once again.

Are you planning to travel to the US for this, is that why you’re asking about US practitioners? This

process will take a couple of years…so not sure how feasible it is to travel back and forth if

that’s your thought…

I consider moving to US just to start treatments, but also because this country fascinate me.
I’m still studying on 4th (out of 5) year. I don’t want to loose these years and go to US just like that. So I am planning to finish this year and then try to finish last year in US.
Now, it is important for me to set a hair removal goal and do everything I can to achive it.
So I am starting here, on this board, looking for the best solution in my case and I really appreciate
advices like yours lagirl.

To dfahey:

Laser and electrolysis can help. There are places here in the US that can work on you very fast to

remove the hair and others can point them out to you. James Walker the seventh (certified

professional electrologist)here on hairtell is very, very good with the speed factor and in the

advice area if you want to fly over!

Thanks. I will contact James Walker VII and talk with him.

Also, I’m preoccupied with going another level with this and mentioning that you should immerse

yourself in the research that is going on in Europe and the United States and perhaps becoming part

of a clinical study. There is one clinical study happening now that I will mention in a minute.

I was wondering if such researches existed. I am not surprised that they are not at too large
scale and still rather closer to the beginning than to the solution. Such cases are not
so common, neither directly healththreating, and who would buy a disposable or electric shaver
if there was some certain cellular level solution?
Despite I belive that such researches will continue and some devoted people will
success on this field.

For today, I would like to get some permament and certain results in 3-5 years.
In mean time I will consider taking a part in such researches not for myself, but to
help people in the future. I really don’t want anybody to get trought what I have and still are.

Thank you dfahey for your post.

#5

the reason I asked about the cause is because as Dee also pointed out, it sounds like there is more than just hereditary reasons involved. so it would make sense to look into it because it can be a sign of other underlying medical issues. read the sticky thread on various causes at the top of this forum.

it’s very hard to burn someone with a Yag laser. that’s not a concern often. it’s made for darker skins. burns are rare and occur only when using a high powered laser like alex or even diode at too high of settings for someone’s dark skin type. part of avoiding that is finding someone with a Yag who knows what they’re doing. Similar to finding a good electrologist who won’t cause scarring and pitting. Laser can certainly thin out your hair and make it weaker so you can tackle it with electrolysis. Hair removal lasers are not used for hairloss problems and considering the amount of hair you have, you don’t need to be worried about stimulating more growth. That is only an issue for treating fine facial hair on women and fine sparse hair on men’s upper arms/shoulders.

you should be able to find both a good laser place and electrologist in the US. But I do believe there are some in Eastern Europe at this point as well. Others have posted about places in Russia and Hungary before.