male beard, getting rid of patchiness

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

Hi everyboy, I’m a 28 yo male looking for beard reduction/elimination. I wrote the first part of my story 2 years ago in this same board:
forum link

2 years and a half and 2 more treatments later I’m not happy with my results.

The first session was ok, side effects where quite a hassle but afterwards I had hair reduction all over my face and no patchiness.

However when I came back for my second treatment the doctor who had initially treated me was no longer working for that clinic, and the new one wreaked havoc on my face. I ended up with some significant hair reduction, yes, but also with clearly vissible patchiness, and I’m now looking for a solution, I don’t wanna shy away from photos any more.

So I’ve arranged a consultation with a well known, though more expensive, clinic. They do both electrolysis and laser, I’m planning on telling them what I’m loooking for (even hair reduction or, if not possible, just getting rid of the beard) and ask what’s the best available option.

So now the questions:

  1. Has anyone managed to get even hair reduction with male beard?

  2. Is still the lightsheer the best option for male beard or is there any better new laser out there?

  3. Do you think I should go for the slower electro to even out my beard and forget about the complications of laser?

Thanks to everyone!

#2

what is your skin and hair color? If it’s pretty light, an alex laser like GentleLASE would be a better option. If yo want to minimize irritation, a Yag laser like GentleYag would be best. LightSheer is a bit hard to operate, so I would stay away from anyone using it who’s not very experienced (over 4 yrs). There is someone currently doing this with GentleLASE, but only on treatment 3 or so. There was another post from someone who had patchy results from someone first on the neck area, but then was able to even it out with a few more treatments when an experienced person was doing a more thourough job. It’s good to have an option of electrolysis as you might still need it to even things out.

#3

I’m a type II / III (very light skin but dark brown/black hair)

I followed your advice and had a treatment with Gentlelase 3 days ago on my beard.

The settings used were: 20J, 3ms pulse, 18mm spot size. Will this be enough to get permanent results?

The treatment did hurt quite a lot (even with Emla, though maybe a bit less than the other 3 I had already had with Lightsheer. You could smell the fried hair right away.

Afterwards my skin remained swollen and red for 2 days, and I also had 2 small slight round burns.

Right now (3 days post-treatment) my skin is almost healed, though quite sensitive yet. My shadow is quite more noticeable now than before the treatment, and shaving does nothing (the razor seems to slide over the hair), so I guess this a sign most of the hair was effected.

All in all I think Gentlelase is a bit more gentle with the skin than Lightsheer, my biggest fear is that it might not be as effective. I hope the bigger spot size helps with patchiness!

By the way… I have a social act in a week’s time, one where pictures will be taken, and I was hoping by then my face would be ok looking and maybe some of the hair would have shed. Anything I can do to accelerate the shedding process?

Thanks for your help, lagirl. I’ll keep you all updated with the results.

#4

this is a better laser than the LightSheer diode. those settings are very good. you should expect the hair to shed within 3 weeks, starting at around week 2.

#5

sorry to hear about your patchiness i have it very bad too. sometimes even after a clean shave i will have someone say something like “did you shave notches in your beard?” OUCH!

it really does look bizarre. i wish there was something that could be done, but unfortunately the only thing is waiting and hoping it grows back. you could try using minoxidil which is a vasodilator. it will probably only help a little if at all.

you are relatively young so there is a chance it may grow back–at least enough to not be blatantly obvious to strangers.

some doc in florida does beard transplants but unless you have an extra $10k that is out of the question. probably has a risk of scarring too.

i’ve researched laser hair removal. there’s no data following patients after a year-year and a half. most studies that do track several months show more and more regrowth at each follow up. not much, usually like 10-20 percent.

there’s also a lot of evidence that most hairs aren’t killed permanently just miniturized. have you ever seen a bald man? the hair on top of his head is still there. the follicles have simply shrunk to very tiny hairs called vellus. in bald men the mechanism of action is DHT a byproduct of testosterone which chemically prevents the hair from going back to thick (terminal) hair.

since laser induces miniaturization of the follicle by one-time mechanical damage there is a chance that given an extended period of time the follicles may slowly recover. you may also see vellus hairs stimulated into terminal ones, but at 28 you are a little old for that. you beard was probably as thick as it was ever going to be.

you did say that after 2.5 years you went back for treatment. was that because you had regrowth? if so then i don’t see why it wouldnt happen again.

i had about a dozen IPL/Laser treatments and over the course of the last ten months i have seen regrowth. mostly it is just that thinner hairs that never left are getting back to their original courseness. But in some areas that were definately, completely bald I have seen a few sparse hairs grow.

sadly at this rate of regrowth i think it’d still take several years to look normal again, if ever. having laser hair removal was the worst mistake of my life. if i could go back in time i’d just have grown a beard.

#6

i’ve researched laser hair removal. there’s no data following patients after a year-year and a half. most studies that do track several months show more and more regrowth at each follow up. not much, usually like 10-20 percent.

there’s also a lot of evidence that most hairs aren’t killed permanently just miniturized. have you ever seen a bald man? the hair on top of his head is still there. the follicles have simply shrunk to very tiny hairs called vellus. in bald men the mechanism of action is DHT a byproduct of testosterone which chemically prevents the hair from going back to thick (terminal) hair.

I would like to jump in here to comment on your points.

Your first comment is technically not true. There have been some studies that have followed results out several years. It is just that the vast majority do not because of issues having to do with the time it takes and cost of a multiyear study. But their are a handful. The web for all it’s ability to provide info isn’t the most complete source of info. What you need to do is to go to a true medical school library and search through the last 5 years of journal articles. You will find those articles on medline.

Also the studies done around 1998 and 1999 (by, I believe, Christine Dierecks) showed that after about 6 months, the reduction of hair was stable. In other words, there was no significant increase in hair recovery after about 6 months or two cycles. So what was there by 6 months is pretty much permanent.

Now to your last point. A study published by the Wellman group sometime in 1999 (or so) looked at the mechanism of hair destruction by the diode laser and came to the conclusion that it was more likely due to miniturization than to destruction based on histology (looking at skin biopsies under a microscope). And it makes sense based on the physics of the diode. And no one really knows what will happen to those hairs in 10 or 20 years. At least not yet.

But, there is no question that the other lasers such as alexandrite, ruby, and/or YAG destroy the actual follicle rather than just shrink it. This has been proven by actual skin biopsies. Again, off the top of my head, I don’t remember the studies, nor do I have them filed in a way that I could quickly find them nor do I have the inclination to spend time looking for them. But you should be able to find those at the library also. You will need to look in the 1997-1998 time frame to find the studies and histology showing actual follicular destruction.

And by the way, one of the reasons for doing this research is to get an appreciation of just how many studies have been done and published on laser hair removal. There are many more than one would normally expect and many that have never made it onto the web (unless you access medline directly).

#7

i went to john hopkins and a few university medical libraries to do my research.

there is one study i found with 1.5 year follow up. however it is very misleading unless you read the entire study (not just the abrstract). only a few participants were seen at that 1.5 year follow up. and at that 1.5 years there was more regrowth than before.

stablization at 6 months was found in another study. this contradicts every other study. it is also not consistant with my personal experience and the fast majority of experiences.

#8

i went to john hopkins and a few university medical libraries to do my research.

Good for you. How many did you read? My guess is that when you include all the studies, posters, speaker abstracts, that we are looking at something like 2,000+ articles. And this doesn’t even begin to address the information that is discussed at meetings.

Unless you spent months reading those articles, you only skimmed the surface.

there is one study i found with 1.5 year follow up. however it is very misleading unless you read the entire study (not just the abrstract). only a few participants were seen at that 1.5 year follow up. and at that 1.5 years there was more regrowth than before.

stablization at 6 months was found in another study. this contradicts every other study. it is also not consistant with my personal experience and the fast majority of experiences.

What articles are you referring to that were misleading? I would like to read them myself to see if they really are misleading as you say.

Finally, I assume you mean “vast majority of experiences” not “fast majority.” Assuming that, what “vast experiences” are you talking about? Where did you compile those “vast experiences.” Please don’t say it is from here because this is not a “vast experience” of people. 99.9% of the people who have done laser hair removal have never posted here.

I am not criticizing you. Just asking that you back up your assertions with facts or experience.

I get your frustration and I assume it is legitimate. But I don’t think your conclusions are. Here are the broad possibilities given your experience.

  1. LHR doesn’t work and it is all a sham.
  2. LHR does work, but not for everyone.
  3. LHR does work, but equipment is important and if you have the wrong equipment it may not work for you.
  4. LHR does work, but technique and experience of the technician is important to your success.
  5. A combination of 2, 3, & 4.

The problem I have is that you jump to possibility 1 without considering that maybe the reason you didn’t have good results is because you went to a place that used a machine that is not that effective and maybe didn’t even use it that well. Which is fine, you are entitled to your conclusion. But if you are going to voice it here, please provide the facts and reasoning that got you to possibility 1 and ruled out the other possibilities.

Just asserting it doesn’t make it so.

#9

To Lula,
Honestly, if I had to start over I would begin with electrolysis and I believe I have had decent results. I go in for my 6th treatment on 11/23/06 but for the most part my face is clean.

The patchiness doesn’t really bother me personally, but I would still recommend electrolysis over LHR for the male beard.

Just my opinion. Good luck!

A

#10

Unfortunately jimmyjames had IPL work without success, which he rarely mentions. Thus he experienced 3 (and also 4 at a franchise clinic), but categorizes it as 1.

#11

Ok, it seems that my post has started some really not planned controversy… That’s fine, but it would’ve been helpful also giving me some of the info I requested :wink: (lagirl and angelafking , thanks for doing it).

Well, it’s been 18 days since the treatment right now. I started to notice some signs of shedding at day 7, and it peaked somewhere along day 14. Right now, most of the hair has already shed (all of the beard) though some tombstones remain that seem harder to eliminate. I also seem to be getting some localized acne in the follicles where rests of hair remain, I think it’s my skin reaction to expel the dead hair.

All in all, the treatment seems to have been effective as all of the area has shed, though I will have to wait for regrowth to see the amount of reduction.

Then, I will evaluate the results, both in terms of reduction and patchiness. If I’ve reached an acceptable reduction I will probably deal with the patchiness with electrolysis if needed. If not, as long as patchiness has not gotten worse I will have yet another treatment.

Thanks to everyone!

#12

Sounds good, don’t worry about the acne though, that’s pretty normal especially if you put lotion on your face after treatment.

Keep us informed!

A