LightSheer Consultation

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
1

Hello everyone… I have a similar thread in cosmeticenhancementsforum.com & would like to post here as well. Much respect for some of the regulars at hairtell & I hope to hear from you.

Summary of one of the more memorable consultations after visiting a few independent hole-in-the-wall laser clinics (no chains!):
The tech. gave a brief, but accurate, rundown of the laser process;

  1. Laser used? – Lumenus LightSheer diode; sapphire contact cooling;
  2. Technician? – 5 years experience with LightSheer (same machine, purchased new), full time, 3-5 days a week, booked 1-2 months in advance; Has performed laser on self (both legs)4 years ago using same laser & has had no need for follow-up treatments;
  3. Success rate? – very high on skin types I-IV;
  4. Touch-ups? – no, techn. was very confident in her skills, & does not feel the need to give away her hours for free;
  5. Price? – no package rates, all single session terms, calculated by the hour; approx. $400-500 per hour, regardless of body part;
  6. Same tech. each visit? – yes, if requested;
  7. Clinic? – tiny, very personal.
    –Tech. was correct about my skin type… III; & was correct about my brother’s skin type… II-III.
    –Tech. also had an IPL. Stated she was proficient with that machine too, but not recommended for my purposes.
    –Tech. asked how quickly my hair returns after waxing & how often I shave due to return of full growth of hair… after receiving my answers, estimated that intervals should be 4-6 weeks. Btw, my hair grows quickly. Waxing lasts less than 2 weeks (if I’m lucky) & can shave my full body one morning only to find need to repeat 24 hours later. Facial hair can be shaved twice a day. Fast regrowth! I’m still told by forum (& believe) that 8-12 weeks is optimal.
    –Tech. estimated that we would require 6-10 treatments, allowing for an increase in interval time between every two treatments.

–I plan on doing a test-run… starting with full back then moving to shoulders / back of neck.
–Main issue is the tech. uses gliding method. I pressed her to switch to up-down, should I decide to purchase time. Tech. insisted she was skilled in this manner, & although I’m convinced about up/down, she has had nothing but success. Tech stated it would not be beneficial to switch to a method with which she is not familiar. She did promise to slow the process, & to ensure compression (pressed to skin) upon each pulse, & about a 5-10% overlap.
–Tech. felt starting point of 18-20 joules would be fine. I pressed her into going higher. She asked for sample patch on sensitive forearm area (top & bottom). I agreed. Started at 18, then 20, 22, 25, 27, 30, 32, & 35. Tech. stopped at 35 to allow a few days to determine if skin would shows signs of damage. I felt no discomfort / pain. A few hours later, my skin was fine… a bit of redness. Feels like I was waxed. No adverse reaction next day… skin back to normal.
My brother (type II-III) also had a test patch. Up to 35 & decided to go safe by staying at 32. Pain not an issue… more peace of mind. I think he can go higher with no worries (lighter skin). (We both had a lot of hair pop out!)
–Overall: Impressed by the tech. Won’t budge on gliding issue, but is willing to up settings. Did slow her pace & press firmly at each pulse while gliding; with overlap. Prices are a bit high.

Question for you, please-- Re: PULSE setting–
The tech. mentioned pulse in regards to slowing her motion, but I did not keep in mind the pulse #s. Would she be increasing pulse or decreasing? LightSheer has settings of automatic & then up to 100ms (I think).
I’ve been reading posts by RJC2001 re: pulse/fluence where he used a 50-100ms pulse with 50 joules. Am a bit confused though as to the best setup. RJC2001 is darker (III-IV) than I am + has fine hair, whereas my hair is dark & coarse all over. Is the effectiveness for me determined by higher joules + higher pulse ms or is the equation higher joules + lower pulse ms?? Does this make a huge difference??

Please help with my confusion + any feedback / suggestions… THANKS.

2

Just a few comments-I am a type 2, 5 treatments w/alex laser on back, shoulders, upper arms.

Touch-ups should be included. Odds are there will be spots missed and you will notice them after 4-5 wks post treatment. You’re paying for a full treatment area, not 98% of the area.

Pulse settings. The lower the pulse the stronger it is for you. Example 3msec = strong while 20msec = weak. Joules is the higher the number the stronger it is. Spot size should be as large as possible. So the combination of high joules, low pulse(strong), and large spot size is most effective.

Spacing treatments out at least 10wks is best. I’ve been told by experts to space back treatments up to 4-5months apart but you have to make the call as to what seems right for you. Good luck.

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I have 3 questions/concerns:

  1. what body parts are you treating? success rates and spacing between treatments can vary depending on this variable.

  2. joules alone on this machine do not give any sense of power. we need a pulse setting used with those joule settings. however, even at highest pulse (least effective), 18-20 joules on this machine is not very effective. Please take a look on hairtell forum and read RC2001’s posts on his treatments. He’s a skin type III-IV and had many treatments with LightSheer, where he found only settings at above 25-30 joules effective, at 50-100ms pulse. For finer hair, the pulse needs to be much lower than that as well.

  3. no matter how fast your hair grows currently, treating at 4-6 weeks is way too frequent and inefficient. You shouldn’t have anything to treat at 4 weeks if you experience shedding. If you provide us with areas you’re treating, we can give more advice on spacing. normally 8-12 weeks depending on the area. 6 weeks is normally only reserved for some women’s faces since hair cycles faster there.

btw, if she uses compression, that’s most important.

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thhjnnjhht

Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 4

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:19 am Post subject:

Thank you Licensed Electrologist: gliding is acceptable in experienced hands in conjunction with compression / overlap.

blink888, thanks also… I was in the process of searching through RJC2001('s) posts on hairtell. That’s why the pulse question came to my mind. I should follow-up with the tech. to get this question answered.

First, though… spacing of 4 weeks is premature, I agree. Good to know that rate of hair growth doesn’t factor in the way I was led to believe. Thanks for the confirmation. The areas with which I would like to start, as a test-run before continuing with full body treatments, are back / shoulders / back of neck. I’m thinking your response will be 8-12 week intervals.

Help me with some clarification:
The LightSheer is probably a fixed 12mm spot. And the joules (fluence) was determined to be acceptable at 35(+) minimum. I know I can go higher than this, seeing that the test patch has subsided in redness rapidly and the bumps have likewise disappeared (a few hours after testing). Now, according to RJC2001, he went up to 50 joules and because of more fine hair and darker III-IV skin, he felt 50-100 ms (pulse) was most effective. I think LightSheer has pulse settings of automatic, 30ms-50ms-100ms. So, would my III skin & more coarse hair require a low 30ms??
Is the effectiveness for me determined by higher joules + higher pulse ms or is the equation higher joules + lower pulse ms??
Excuse me, but I’m a bit confused here.
Also, since the tech. stated she would make certain to slow her motion, compress, and overlap, does that necessitate a change in pulse in either direction??

Will continue to go through the hairtell posts for better understanding, and will continue to track hopetobehappy('s) thread on this forum as he decides upon a place to start after multiple consultations…
But any info. is appreciated.
Thanks.

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blink888

Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 3384
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject:

generally, the lower the pulse and the higher the joules, the more effective the treatment. but lower pulse is especially important once the hair gets finer after a few treatments. also, even 30ms is still pretty high for fine hair. Compare that to GentleLASE’s 3ms, which is fine it’s considered most effective on that type of hair.

Either way, you should get results as RC2001 did. It will be tougher on the shoulders, especially if the hair is not very coarse and dense there. This area is harder to treat. Backs have long anagen phases and slow cycles, so you can start at 8-12 weeks and move to 12-16 after 3-4 treatments. Just see how your hair reacts. You will know when it feels like you’ve got enough hair for your next treatment. You can also read Osh’s posts on this forum. He used GentleLASE, but he had similar skin type and areas he was treating. Also, I would expect 8 treatments for a good reduction, but possibly a few more for an almost full clearance.

4

It sounds like that “gliding” method is what I call dragging the hand piece. I had one poorly trained or not trained at all technician use this technique on me. It left a horrendous amount of untreated hair. I believe a technician who uses this method does not care about the quality of their work. The pick-up-and-place method seems to force the technician to project and execute a much better coverage method. Anyway, who wants to have a piece of material dragged, raked or slid across someone’s already irritated skin. Gliding/dragging can only produce inconsistent results. I can’t even use that method with power tools with even results. That method would have to be implemented only with a computerized robotic system. Ah, now there’s an idea. Na, that would be too expensive. Well, it was just a thought.

I just wish I had the pictures of the marks left by the technician who used the dragging method. She left more than an inch of untreated hair between her lines of laser treated skin on my back.

Zanrico

5

Missed spots can be noticed even one week after the treatments. Even though the hair has not shed yet, it is very easy to tell the difference between untreated shaved hair and hair that was zapped and ready to fall out. You can even test it with a pair of tweazers.

Definitely go for a touch up if you feel you need one. It’s easier to get these done at larger chain clinics (because it’s a zoo and not as personal) than at a private place who get “offended” if you come back for touch ups.

6

One thing I noticed about the difference between missed and treated hairs was that the treated hairs seemed to become a little more darker and they felt more brittle, even though they weren’t ready to slide out of their homes.