LHR on male upperback/shoulders/bum

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

Hello everyone,

First of all: sorry for my English, i’m not a native speaker and live in Holland. I wanted to share my story and hope to get some advice. I am a 25 year old male, skintype III, originaly from Turkey so white to olive coloured skin and dark coarse hair.

I’ve had 12 LHR treatments. I began with the lightsheer diode. The first session I started with 30 joules, don’t know the spot size. 30 was not enough for me so after 1 or 2 sessions the tech and I decided to higher it up to 45. It was painfull, but I got used to it. So the very most of my treatments we did with 45 joules on my upperback, shoulders and bum (only in the middle of my bum 36). The last session I have had is with the lightsheer duet, that has been a few days ago, and I can’t tell you any results yet (11 joules).

After 12 treatments I see in the middle of my shoulders bald spots. The spots I noticed after the 2nd treatment, but offcourse the spots were in that time little. Now the spots are not little: I can obviously see hairfree areas. Also the areas course my chesthair is almost hairfree. (When I began with LHR I didn’t had any hair there, but the laser cause hair in that area…anyway that’s almost gone thanks GOD!). Also when I look to my upperback, I can see spots and stripes without hair. This is according to my tech not much, because she uses 45 joules and I have already had 12 treatments. On my underback I’ve got the same hairless spots in the middle, but not at the sides…not at all. And my bum: in the middle of my bum (course my b.h.) I’m hairfree now. But when I look to the half of my bum and sides, there is still growing hair. The hair on my underback and bum is now more lighter then first when I began, but it isn’t away. I started to do my treatments with 10 weeks space, then 12 and the last treatment with a space of 14 weeks. The tech said the hair has to be there for 2 weeks minimum. The hair on my upperback starts to grow in week 9/10 and on my underback and bum like in week 11/12. I all laser it at once.

My question after reading all of your stories: shall I tray another laser or should I go on with lightsheer? After reading some good things about Gentelase for light skin I thought maybe I can tray it. Or do you think Gentlemax is better for my skintype? The reason why I ask this is because of the tech said that the hair is going away, but really slowly. I notice this too. Or shall I tray another laser then Gentlelase/Gentlemax?

#2

It sounds like the hair is very light which is why you are seeing little results. In those areas if you see a 70-80% reduction that would be a success.

#3

  • Laser only works on very coarse hair (like hair on underarms for example). Can you post a photo? The settings you describe sound fine, but the hair you’re treating may not be coarse enough. After 12 treatments, you should have better results than that if the hair was the right type to treat.

  • LightSheer is a good machine in good hands. It’s harder to use than GentleLASE, so experience of the operator is important.

  • Stripes is a result of poor treatment, i.e. not overlapping properly and/or gliding. They should be using the laser with up-and-down method instead of gliding and pressing down each time.

  • ALL treated hair should shed within 3 weeks of each treatment. If that doesn’t happen, the hair is not being affected. How much shedding do you see each time?

  • In this case, overall, it sounds like there are 2 problems. The technician is using good settings, but a bad technique. And a lot of the hair may not be coarse enough for laser to treat.

#4

Hey LAgirl,

-I think my hair is coarse enough, the hair on my upperback is exact the same as my chesthair. So dark and coarse. And also the hair on my underback/bum is I think coarse… Actually this is a good question for me to think about, because when I shave my underback/bum the hair is lighter as when I first started the treatment. Let’s say light brown and fine. Maybe you are right! But why doesn’t the thech say this to me? She sees the hair before the treatment, because she shaves my skin before she lasers it. Going to ask this the next time!

-I don’t know what you mean by using the laser with up-and-down method? The tech is a skintherapist, so I hope she knows what she is doing. With the first Lightsheer Diode I used, she couldn’t overlap the same area, because that hurts alot. But with the Lightsheer Duet she did overlap, because Duet is much much more painless. Lets say almost painless.

-I’m for sure that the treated hair on mu underback and bum do not shed, because when I strech my skin, I see the hair in the follicle, some very obvious and some of them harder to see. So I think that’s the reason why I don’t see result on that places. The hair on my upperback: I’m not sure of ALL the hair sheds, because it’s harder to see in the mirror. But I do notice that there isn’t any hair left, that I can see offcourse. I can’t strech my upperback to see if the result is the same as on my underback/bum.

Just one question: by shedding you mean that the skin has to bee bold right? So no hair in the follicle you can see? Totally gone? Or do yo mean that the hair ON the surface is gone, but when you look closer you can see a black spot. Because I see this ‘black spots’ on my underback/bum, but as I said: on my upperback harder to see.

Thanks for helping me LAgirl. I think you’re an angel for most of us here. Thanks alot!

#5

  • Hair either falls out altogether or it’s ok for it to stay as pepperspots and fall out a bit later. It basically shouldn’t be growing as usual at 3 weeks. Whatever is growing as usual at 3 weeks wasn’t affected (growing=coming out of the skin, but not falling out)

  • Don’t assume that the person knows how to use the machine best or that they understand that finer hair won’t be affected. Unfortunately, most people buy the machine and listen to the sales pitch by the laser manufacturer, which doesn’t really focus on constraints of the machine or treatments for obvious reasons.

  • The most important thing you should understand is that you shouldn’t be looking for painless treatments. In fact, little pain usually means that the settings are too low. Comfort during treatments shouldn’t be a concern if you’re concerned with getting results. It SHOULD hurt, quite a bit. If you can’t handle it (but your skin can without side effects), then you should be using a numbing cream, icing, etc to manage the pain. But your goal should be to get treatments at highest settings your SKIN can handle without burning or any other side effects. Even if the hair sheds, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it was heated up enough to disable it permanently. So treating at very high settings is important.

  • With this machine, compression should be used. Some techs kind of cheat and glide the machine across the skin instead (because it’s faster), which doesn’t penetrate the heat deep into the follicles. There should be pressure applied the entire time you’re being treated.

#6

Ok, I understand.
-On mu underback/bum it stays like pepperspots, but does not grow. It grows (coming out of the skin as you say) in week 11. But before week 11 is reached, I can see the pepperspots and they don’t fall out, but not growing either. They stay just as they are. Is this weird?

-I’m not searching for painless treatments. In fact, I have already 12 treatments with 45 joules. The pain I don’t care, I want the hair be gone. But because of the Duet is a new machine in Holland, she wanted to me to give it a try. If I’m not ok with it after one treatment, then we’re going to switch back.

-I think sometimes she glides, but most of the time she does it right. Because she waits 1 sec and then moves on.

The thing I noticed before my ‘Duet treatment’: because the tech found the LHR was going to slowy, she wanted to use IPL to see the result. I didn’t find this effective, because the hair came back in 6 weeks on my upperback (normaly in 8/9 weeks). But what I did noticed was reduction on my bum (half of it is know hairfree). In the middle she used Lightsheer Diode 36 joules (this is what she does normaly). After I had this, I know see that also the middle is hairless. Can it be that I need more treatments? I ask this because before the 12 treatments I had hair on boths areas.

#7

If the hair is being affected each time and you’re having effective treatments at good settings each time every 8-12 weeks, you should be done at around 8 treatments. After that, you’re basically retreating hair from before. So if it keeps coming back after that, it’s probably because it’s not being killed for good. Usually, that happens if the treatments are not at effective settings or if the hair doesn’t have enough pigment to attract enough heat to destroy it with laser.

#8

But I notice un my upperback after 12 weeks that more hair is gone, but this goes very slowly, just more hairfree spots or stripes. The tech says this is going slowly too, altough she sees bold spots/strips. On my shoulder is more hair away then my upperback for example. On my shoulder it is very obvious (more like a hairfree area over my whole shoulder). Shall I try another laser? Maybe alexandrite? Don’t know if my skincoulor is right: I’m type 3 olive to white colour. Or do you have to be very pale for alexandrite?

Can it be because of my male hormones that it goes slowly? On my upperback I’m sure that the hair has enough pigment, underback/bum like I said I’m not sure. Maybe that’s why I see more effect on upperback, but very slow.

#9

Striping is a direct result of not overlapping properly and constantly missing spots when treating. It’s not taking that long because of your hair. It’s taking that long because their technique is not great and they’re not covering ALL hairs each treatment.

The only way to know if you’re light enough for an alex laser is to test your skin at effective settings on one.

Can you post photos? I’m really doubting any of your hair is truly coarse enough for laser.

#10

I can post photo’s, but I had my treatment last week, so you see only pepperspots. If the hairs grow back, I’m going to send you photo’s.

Overlapping won’t be a problem with Lightsheer Duet I think, because with this machine the tech can easily overlap. This doesn’t hurt so much. With the Lightsheer Diode it does hurt. But anyway, I think she covers all areas with the laser, because after shedding I hardly see missed hairs. But maybe her technique isn’t great as you say. Going to try one of her collegues next time.

For my underback/bum: because I now think the hairs over there may be to light to laser, shall I do electrolyses? I saw great results of forum user ‘bryce’, it was really amazing to see that. I red also here when electrolyses is done professionaly that you can get great results. But in the states this might be a profession, in Holland I don’t know if someone can help me professionaly, someone who’s really good in it (like Fino Gior). Usually electrolyses here is a ‘profesion’ of beautycentres/beautyclinics (who do also waxing, or IPL). So someone who’s pro-electrolyses only (in stead of laser) is hard to find over here. So in that case I’m really afraid to get scars by treating myself by one of them.

#11

Hey LAgirl,
I thought about what you said about striping. Maybe I explained it wrong. With stripes and spots I mean that these stripes/spots are hairfree. I don’t mean stripes/spots of hair that is left on my skin (because of not overlapping). So the stripes/spots are hairfree, but around these places you see hair. Altough the stripes/spots are getting bigger eacht time after a treatment, this process is going slowly.

#12

In terms of striping, it’s the same thing. Stripes of hair or stripes of no hair are the same thing basically. Both caused by not overlapping or not appying the laser correctly to the skin and thus not applying enough heat.

Yes, electrolysis works on all hair and is the only permanent option for finer hair. And yes, it’s important to find someone good at it to do it properly.

#13

Thanks LAgirl!
In europe there is a new hair removal treatment, called Enzymtec. Did you hear of this? They claim it’s definate and I found a beautysalon (just quick search) who claims a guarantee on it.

#14

Sezer, I can’t find any info on Enzymtec in english. Can you summarize what it is for us please? A cream? A laser? My guess is that it’s another highly-endorsed waste of money (if it worked, we’d have heard of it when it was still in scientific trials, long before salons started offering it).

But I’m curious as to what it actually is…

#15

I can’t find any information in English either.

#16

O it is just again a scam people. Let me explain in my best English. Enzymtec is produced in Switzerland after 8 years of research as they say. After waxing they put on these enzymtec cream witch is a emulsion of natural (biological) enzyms. The enzyms are ‘crowling’ inside your hairfollicle and after 10-15 treatments the follicle is killed. Definately. Several Dutch websites claim that this system is researched in a cancer centre in Germany (the DKFZ) on 1000 persons and that it’s completely safe.

Let me get this clear: I’m a journalist and I doubt that this systems works and that it was researched in Germany. So I contacted Germany and explained the press officer the situation and she said that already 3 other journalists of The Netherlands e-mailed her about this question. THEY NEVER DID ANY RESEARCH ON THIS AND SAID TO ME NOT TO BELIEVE THESE STORIES. The thing I’m very worried about is that millions of inoucend people over here are believing this stuff, so my task is to set this right. Enzymtec is here on the market for about a year. 25 salons are using this system and the number of these salons is growing and growing. They copy eachother with the ‘research-claim’ and what so more. The brain of these companies is in Switzerland. The weird thing: I can’t find any objectif information in English, Dutch but not even in German (the language in Switzerland).

For just a few minutes I was very happy that I found a new hairremoval system, like many others I think. It’s just a shame of all these companies!

#17

This should be something like the EPILSCAN HFD. I have understood that also has its origin in Switzerland. It’s pathetic.
Hundreds of Spanish consumers have been victims of this fraud and what a price!!

#18

Just be aware when this systems comes to the USA. Because I think that will hapen.

#19

Sezer, I’m not sure of it, but I think that behind the invention of these systems little (or no) effect, is an interest in conquering the French market.
French beauticians can not work with needle and I suppose not Laser. French doctors who want to engage in Electrolysis are scarce. So French consumers are in a situation of total helplessness. This delicate situation favors the emergence of alternatives useless and fraudulent, as you just reveal. (Information that I personally thank you very much).

Josefa

#20

If it happens, it won’t be for a while. There are a lot of hoops they’ll have to jump through, including the FDA. The problem with these things is that no one requires them to be approved for effectiveness. They’re only “approved” for safety, i.e. all it needs to be able to do is NOT kill you. That’s why I think it’s ridiculous that every laser and electrolysis clinic constantly points out how their machine is “approved by FDA”. That approval is meaningless. All IPLs are approved. Doesn’t mean they’re any good. Just means they won’t kill you.