Lasers cause MELANOMAS

Hair Removal Information Sources News
#1

Lasers used for hair removal, skin peels, wrinkle removal, and removal of discolored spots on the skin can cause MELANOMAS. There are now 2 published articles in peer review dermatology journals that I am aware of showing pictures and explaining the effects of lasers on BENIGN FRECKLES and other spots on the surface of the skin. One was written by the formost expert on the subject of MELANOMAS and the other was authored by a Professor of Dermatology at Harvard Medical School.

Only 2-5 joules of energy was used on these patients, however, 50-60 joules is used for hair removal because most of this energy is dissipated as it travels down to the location to destroy the root. About 20 Joules is needed to do this and the color of the skin absorbs some laser light as it travels through the skin.

The use of lasers is expanding to include uses that have NOT been approved by FDA as “SAFE and EFFECTIVE” such as wrinkle removal, skin peels, and the removal of telangectasias. These MELANOMAS have the medical name of LENTIGO MALIGNA.

During the treatments the color of the skin spots is reduced and this makes the diagnosis of MELANOMA extremely difficult as color change is one of the symptoms looked for to make a diagnosis. After a few months the color around the treated area gets darker as the MELANOMA is continuing to spread and becomes visible again. The cancer usually spreads during this time and the patient can die of inoperable brain cancer in 3 years. Unlicensed and poorly trained laser operators who are not doctors can not make a diagnosis of MELANOMA. They can not do biopsies to have a Pathologist verify a diagnosis. Doctors will soon reduce their use of lasers as the word spreads about this deadly effect to avoid being sued for causing melanomas and death and risk destroying their practice.

A formal complaint has been filed with FDA to have the labeling of lasers changed to include this potentially fatal cancer of the skin as a WARNING along with the list of side effects that can occur as a result of laser treatments. Informed consent MUST be signed before treatment begins as a patient can not consent to treatment unless they are informed. FDA has known about this same problem with tanning booths, however, they have no jurisdiction over these booths as they are not promoted as medical devices. There probably will be a lawsuit about tanning booths soon and they will disappear from the scene rather than risk more lawsuits. The same thing will happen with lasers but doctors are more sensitive about being sued as it can ruin their practice so they will stop using them when other modes of treatment are available as there is for skin peels.

#2

Leave it to another professional electrologist warning us all of the deadly effects of laser. Seems like Electrologists are the only ones who “really know” what going on. You guys should wear a cape or something. One day the world will thank the “SUPER ELECTROLOGISTS” for saving the world from the “EVIL LASER”.

#3

Leave it to another professional electrologist warning us all of the deadly effects of laser. Seems like Electrologists are the only ones who “really know” what going on. You guys should wear a cape or something. One day the world will thank the “SUPER ELECTROLOGISTS” for saving the world from the “EVIL LASER”.

#4

On Sunday 9/21/03, Daryl Stevens of Marine Insurance Agency, gave a lecture to electrologists in Boston. Information was passed on about insurance claims and the kind of damages being sued for (including laser patients). He stated insurance companies are giving up insuring laser operators for malpractice due to the number of and dollar amounts of the claims. Claims of $100,000 are common and he expects them to rise in number. He was very emphatic about working outside your insurance coverage.

He has a vested interest in providing this coverage as he makes commissions on this but the companies are losing too much money due to laser scarring by inadequately trained operators. Insurance companies NEVER TAKE RISKS. They insure your risk but NEVER take any risks for themselves. If their EXPOSURE is too great…they raise rates or DROP THE COVERAGE.

Keep it up and you will get yours. When there is no insurance they will go after your house, life insurance, pension, automobile, and any other assets you may have now or in the future. Good Luck.

PS: If you are a RED HEAD you have more to worry about when it comes to damage from sunlight but you probably already know about that.

#5

Harvey, can you provide documentation showing that hair removal lasers are linked to melanoma? I have not seen anything like that in published literature.

#6

Both articles were published in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology, Feb. 98. I found out about it from one of the co-authors who is the Chief of Dermatology at the Mass. Gen’l. Hosp. and a world authority on MELANOMAS. He mailed me a copy of the original article. I do not subscribe to this journal and if it was not for him sending me the article I would not know anything about it. In the references at the end of the article, (No. 17) by Dr. Kenneth Arndt, Professor of Dermatology at Harvard Medical School is information on the second reference to this problem published in the same journal in 1986. This doctor used an argon laser. This means at least 3 cases have been reported but the difficulty in diagnosing this disease makes it a certainty there are other cases that have NOT BEEN REPORTEleftyD OR DIAGNOSED.

Hair removal Lasers have been av ailable for over 10 years, however, the hair removal industry by
non-professionals is different because when a Doctor removes a tatoo is by laser (SURGERY) the patient does not have to return. Hair removal and wrinkle removal are TREATMENTS but NOT CURES. Wrinkles will return and increase with age.This means repeated exposure to intense laser light. Damage from sunlight is cumulative as is radiation and now laser. One response from the skin is cancer and there a few of them. Melanoma is the worst because it is so insidious as opposed to squamous cell or basal cell cancers which are very obvious and cause the patient to seek help.

Statistics show that the incidence of MELANOMAS is increasing rapidly but nobody has done a study to find how many of these patients had laser treatments.There is no way of knowing how many melanomas were induced by laser because if a doctor reports this he/she will be open to a malpractice suit, therefore, they do not report it. Operators who are NOT doctors have no training in diagnosing this and have no way of knowing wether a “brown or tan spot” is benign or MALIGNANT. They are less apt to know anything about the subject but they will be giving multiple treatments to many patients, thereby, increasing the chances they are causing MELANOMAS. FDA is aware of this problem and as it is a “life or death” situation they will act faster than usual.

The article sent to me is called “Failure of Q-switched ruby laser to eradicate atypical-appearing solar lentigo: Report of two cases” (Pages 314-317), Journal of American Academy of Dermatology, Feb. 98.

In science, the usual pattern is for a scientist (or Doctor) to present his/her findings at a meeting or in an article in a peer review journal. This is then discussed by others and the experiment or data has to be reviewed and DUPLICATED by at least one other group to be sure the original was not “fudged”. When this happens the data is accepted and enters into the texts. The term “LENTIGO MALIGNA” was coined specifically to distinguish these melanomas from other melanomas because it is a “new” classification.

I think the best reply to doubters is provided by insurance companies who refuse to issue malpractice insurance to non-physicians for laser use. Patients NEVER ask if you have insurance because they assume we do or they believe nothing can happen to them.

#7

First off, Harvey, I agree that there is no long-term safety data on lasers and that it does constitute an unknown risk, even though FDA has determined they are Generally Recognized As Safe (GRAS).

The reports you cite do not link hair removal lasers to melanomas.

The 1986 letter discusses an argon laser, a type not used in hair removal (except eyelashes).

</font><blockquote><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”>quote:</font><hr /><font size=“2” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”> J Am Acad Dermatol. 1986 Jun;14(6):1092. Arndt KA

New pigmented macule appearing 4 years after argon laser treatment of lentigo maligna.

PMID: 3722487</font><hr /></blockquote><font size=“2” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”>This letter recommends follow-up, which is typical in removal of any skin lesion. The laser didn’t cause the melanoma-- it was used unsuccessfully to eradicate an existing melanoma.

The other report also does not say that the laser caused a melanoma, but that a solar lentigos treated with a type of laser not used in hair removal did not eradicate the lentigo. The report advises follow-up with patients, because later biopsies found the unremoved lentigos had melanoma. This is different than saying the laser CAUSED the melanoma: the laser did not eradicate a growth that later was found to be cancerous. See the abstract below.

</font><blockquote><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”>quote:</font><hr /><font size=“2” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”> J Am Acad Dermatol. 1998 Feb;38(2 Pt 2):314-7.

Failure of Q-switched ruby laser to eradicate atypical-appearing solar lentigo: report of two cases.

Lee PK, Rosenberg CN, Tsao H, Sober AJ.
Department of Dermatology, Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, USA.

Cutaneous lasers, including argon, Q-switched Nd:YAG, Q-switched ruby, Q-switched alexandrite, and short pulsed dye lasers, have been used to treat solar lentigines and other benign melanocytic lesions. However, the effects of these lasers at standard fluences on atypical melanocytic lesions have not been examined. We describe two patients in whom the Q-switched ruby laser failed to successfully treat clinically atypical-appearing solar lentigines. In both, clinically atypical-appearing melanocytic lesions were treated with excellent initial cosmetic results. In the first patient, the pigmentation returned several months after treatment and continued to increase in size and color. A biopsy specimen 30 months after Q-switched ruby laser therapy revealed a lentigo maligna melanoma. In the second patient, the lesion recurred 6 months after Q-switched ruby laser therapy, and a biopsy specimen 1 year after treatment showed an early lentigo maligna. Thus Q-switched ruby lasers and other cutaneous lasers capable of targeting melanin may be inadequate to eliminate lentigo maligna and other atypical melanocytic lesions completely. These cases emphasize the importance of careful clinical assessment before any laser surgery and the need to advise patients to return for evaluation should pigmentation return. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size=“2” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”>Can you give a more specific reference regarding insurance companies not insuring laser practitioners?

Exaggerations and misinterpretations of data occur when people make unsubstantiated or unreferenced claims. This cuts both ways, pro and con, for any hair removal method. This thread is an excellent example of why I very much hope everyone will cite their sources so others can verify the comments.

Thanks for providing the citations so I could follow up on your comments.

[ October 02, 2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Andrea ]

#8

Andrea…You make a valid point, however, nobody is looking for these melanomas and they could not recognize them if they saw them. Doctors have a VERY DIFFICULT time diagnosing them and their HESITANCE (RELUCTANCE is a better word) to refer patients is part of the problem. They do not want to get involved in a malpractice suit that will cost them a fortune in insurance premiums or become listed in their state’s list of doctors who are involved in these suits as this information is now readily available to the public on the net.

Dr. Sober, who sent me the original article, told me personally that he believes there will be much more of this seen but NOT REPORTED, consequently, he will avoid the use of lasers for use on anything that is benign as a prophylactic measure. He prefers to be conservative. The next to last paragraph of my last post explains how medical articles are finalized. They can ONLY REPORT WHAT THEY FIND and then wait for it to be reproduced by another group who is willing to spend the money to do the study. When insurance companies REFUSE to insure laser operators for malpractice due to the number of claims and the amount of these claims I think that is a major clue as to what is happening. Lawyers will not take a case unless it is $50,000 or more as they can not make any money. This means most cases are never brought to suit as they are less than $50,000. Consequently, there are more cases out there than we know and many patients never think about suing. When you put that all together … a new picture develops.

#9

I will get you the telephone number of Daryl Stevens in Maplewood NJ. They insure a HUGE number of electrologists, beauty salons, and spas. The policy I have is for the “Beauty Industry” and includes electrolysis.

#10

I have spoken with Darryl before. Last time we spoke, Marine Agency was still providing insurance for non-medical personnel unless their state did not allow them to perform laser treatments without medical supervision.

Anyone who wants to confirm can contact them directly:

Marine Agency Corporation
191 Maplewood Avenue, Maplewood, New Jersey 07040
1-800-763-4775

#11

ALL STATES have laws that make it illegal to practice medicine without a license. There is NO STATE THAT HAS PROVISION TO ISSUE A LICENSE TO OPERATE A LASER AS A SEPARATE ISSUE FROM GENERAL OR PLASTIC SURGERY.

The use of a laser to DESTROY,KILL,OR REMOVE LIVE TISSUE such as the hair root IS SURGERY. Therefore, a laser treatment is really a “LASER SURGICAL PROCEDURE”. Now they are using these devices to remove wrinkles, veins, rosacea, psoriasis, “age spots”. acne and they are getting more invlved with SURGERY, consequently, MORE ILLEGAL ACTS which are NOT COVERED BY ANY MALPRACTICE INSURANCE.

The use of lasers for these procedures are described in SURGICAL textbooks because they are another aspect of surgery. These texts do not give recipies because they do not belong there. Medical doctors use pills but surgeons use scalpels, lasers, and other devices that cut things out or off and with lasers and short wave they can remove things below the surface without cutting the surface but they are still DESTROYING OR REMOVING LIVE TISSUE AND SOMETIMES DEAD TISSUE AS IN GANGRENE OR A TRANSPLANT and that is what makes it SURGERY. Sometimes is can be for “cosmetic” purposes (like a nose job or breast augmentation), however, it involves ACCESSING LIVE TISSUE, DISEASED TISSUE and/or DEAD TISSUE.

#12

Hi Andrea…You have to realize most lawsuits NEVER get to court. They are settled by the insurance companies WITHOUT GOING TO COURT. This means there is NO PUBLIC RECORD but the insurance companies KNOW HOW MUCH THEY PAID OUT TO SETTLE THEM AND HOW MANY THERE WERE EVEN THOUGH WE NEVER HAVE ACCESS TO THIS INFO.

Daryl told me it is getting more difficult to obtain this insurance and he wants it for his accounts. It is interesting to note the “legal” definition of “settlement”.
To a lawyer it means YOU BOTHER ME AND I WILL PAY YOU TO STOP BOTHERING ME …WITH NO ADMISSION OF GUILT. IF YOU DIVULGE HOW MUCH MONEY YOU RECEIVED THERE IS A STIFF PENALTY. That is why the patients never talk, therefore, the FDA has no record of the number of these cases but insurance companies exchange this information and act accordingly. This also eliminates the expense and time it takes to go through the court system. “LAWS ARE MADE BY LAWYERS FOR LAWYERS WITH NO REGARD FOR ANYONE ELSE” (I do not remember who said that but I agree). There are VERY FEW GOOD TRIAL LAWYERS and the expense is unbelievable when you have to get EXPERTS to support your position. I do not know when you spoke to Daryl but my meeting was Sept. 21. There were about 150-200 electrologists present.

#13

Just to make sure I’ve got this straight:

There is an increase in melanomas but no one knows why, and you posit that Dr’s are not reporting them so as to cover their asses.

There will soon be a lawsuit that will do away with the tanning industry.

Doctors are hesitant to diagnose these melanomas because they don’t want to get involved in sticky malpractice cases. You don’t state it, but I think it stands to reason that that means these doctors are instead committing gross negligence by allowing their cancer riddled patients to walk out the door without warning them.

Lawyers won’t take cases that settle for less than $50,000 (this is my favorite :smile: )

Insurance companies are settling out of court (how they’re doing it without the lawyers I’m not clear on).

Using a laser to remove hair is surgery, but inserting an electrified needle into the hair shaft to remove hair is not.

Doctors, lawyers, and the insurance companies are all conspiring to keep the truth about lasers causing melanomas away from the public. Yet we should believe some random guy from Marlborough, Massachusetts who keeps ranting on a fairly obscure internet site (no offense Andrea).

Insurance companies are no longer insuring the laser hair removal companies.

Oh wait, yes they are; nevermind.

Have I missed anything? Keep digging. No doubt you’ll soon find the connection between laser hair removal practioners and the September 11th attacks.

God I love the internet.

#14

No offense taken, Homer! :wink:

Now you see why I have the bulletin board on a totally separate site from hairfacts.

#15

[b]When you say “laser” does it also include the Intense Pulse Light machines too???

PLEASE REPLY BACK !!
[/b]

#16

As soomeone who is a published researcher (Neuroscientist, electrophysiology), your claim regarding independent duplication of results being required for publication is patently false. To publish one must only do an interesting study that has good controls. The peer review process is part where the quality of the controls and interest in the results is examined. If they pass review, the article is published. Also know that I read research literature on laser treatments for around 6 hours today (by chance)
and I ran across not a single article mentioning melanoma risk changes. I do not totally discount your claim of increased risk, but I do challange the imlplied notion that current evidence suggests laser treatment is associated with a drastic increase in the incidence of melanomas. Know that the guys like me who do research for a living get paid when we make publishable and therefore fundable findings. If there is laser associated cancer risk, rest asure some geek will publish on topic. And all will be funded by the Natitional Institute of Health Cancer Institute, which provides any geek with a good idea and lab space research funding.
Clebla

#17

Thanks for joining Homer and others as a voice of reason in this thread, clebla!

#18

The use of a laser to DESTROY,KILL,OR REMOVE LIVE TISSUE such as the hair root IS SURGERY. Therefore, a laser treatment is really a “LASER SURGICAL PROCEDURE”.
Do you call electrolysis as surgical procedure?
Isn’t electrolysis process try to destroy or kill hair follicles? And such action is legal ?

#19

Lasers used for hair removal, skin peels, wrinkle removal, and removal of discolored spots on the skin can cause MELANOMAS.
…
50-60 joules is used for hair removal because most of this energy is dissipated as it travels down to the location to destroy the root. About 20 Joules is needed to do this and the color of the skin absorbs some laser light as it travels through the skin.
…
In other words, you are saying that people would get skin cancer with their expose to Laser zaps which only last a fraction of a second?