Laser vs IPL.. revisited :-)

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

I know, same old question…but I still haven’t made my mind up. :slight_smile:

After reading through comments on here I was almost convinced to stop the IPL treatments and start actual laser hair removal. But seeing that my skin responded so well, I thought I’ll try another shot of IPL. In the worst case, it just won’t work. At least till now my skin seems to be taking it perfectly. I’ve also had a huge reduction in hair since my first session (at least 80%). Anyway, I had my second IPL session on Saturday and I asked the doctor again if laser isn’t a better option (told her everything I read on here as well). Anyway, she told me that laser targets deeper seated hair ( > 5mm) and IPL focusses on more superficial hair (3-5mm). In my case, she believes that IPL would get more hair than laser and is less risky as well.

She also said, that once the hair has fallen out, it means that the follicle is permanently damaged and won’t sprout new hair. I was worried because many posters wrote that their hair disappeared for about 6 months - 2 years and then started growing again since IPL only damaged the follicle rather than destroying it. She said that new follicles may be generated any time, resulting in increase hair growth but once a follicle is damaged it won’t suddenly start growing hair again after 6 months, be it with IPL or laser.

Their clinic offers both IPL and Nd YAG laser and the treatment cost is the same, so I think she really believes that IPL is better suited for me.

Anyway, as far as I remember, these were the settings: 26J (previously, it was 25), skin relaxation time (???) was 100 and she used 3 pulses (???). I asked about the spot size but she didn’t understand it, which was a bit worrying, but maybe it’s not appropriate for IPL?

Anyway, hope I’m not annoying anyone by asking this question again but I’d love to hear your opinions.

#2

Do you know what IPL is used? Settings don’t really mean much without a machine name since they’re different on all machines.

IPL can be permanent but it’s just more risky to use. I’ve had great results on my abdomen with IPL but still switched to laser since it will always be better. Laser is a targeted wavelength where IPL is basically all wavelengths with a filter on it to only allow the wavelengths that kill hair.

It depends on the type of hair you have, yag is only going to be good on very coarse hair so IPL may work better. I wouldn’t say IPL is safer than laser though, since it’s firing all wavelengths vs just one. There’s just as much of a risk of burning with IPL as anything else.

She’s wrong though when she says if the hair sheds that it was killed. It weak settings are used the hair will still shed but it’s not permanent and will just grow back. Even being treated on very low settings will cause hair to shed but it’s not enough to kill it, it only just stuns it.

#3

Thanks for your reply Edokid. It’s a lumenis quantum. (Their YAG laser is lumenis too, though I’m not sure which model).

For the quantum is a fluence setting of 25-26 effective? I think my skin is type IV and I’ve got very coarse, dense, black hair (leaves a shadow after shaving). It was very painful and my skin became quite red so I’m reluctant to push for a higher setting. The redness and swelling disappeared however after a few hours and I’ve got no other after effects. A few whiteheads but those are gone now too.

Is it true that laser mainly targets deeper seated hair?

if the hair has shed but only was temporarily stunned, how long would it take to regrow? Would the very next cycle start immediately?

#4

And also, is it true that laser (especially yag) is more painful?

#5

I can’t really comment on those settings unfortunately just because I’m not really experienced with it. I was treated with the Lumenis One IPL module so it’s probably similar to yours but I have no idea about settings… The red skin is pretty much from the IPL. When I had my stomach treated with IPL, for about 4 hours later I’d have red dots where all the hairs were. I don’t get that at all with Laser. The Quantum by Lumenis is an IPL device, it doesn’t do hair removal out of the box. It can take an IPL upgrade to do hair removal, but the yag portion cannot do hair removal at all. That’s probably why they aren’t suggesting the Yag, you can see here it shows the Yag doesn’t do hair removal on this machine:

http://www.aesthetic.lumenis.com/quantum

I think laser can treat deeper hair but not only deep hair. A yag is 1064nm which is the deepest. Alexandrites are 955 but if you’re type 4 you’re probably too dark for an Alexandrite.

If the hair was only temporarily stunned, the problem is it can take even 6 months before it starts to regrow, so it’s hard to tell if it’s working.

I’ve heard on here a few times that Yag lasers are more painful but my experience shows it doesn’t. I find it feels no different at all than an Alexandrite. I use Apogee Elite which has Alexandrite and Yag, I don’t find they feel different at all they’re almost exactly the same. I also don’t find they hurt any more or less than IPL. IPL feels a bit different almost like a shock I find where as laser is more like a small snap but very similar.

#6

The depth of penetration issue is all wrong. Her other option is a Yag and that specific Yag may have a 5mm+ pulse. That’s not the case on all machines. Candela machines go down to 3mm pulse width and that’s the lowest on the market. However, this setting is not really about depth of penetration. She may be talking about the 1064nm penetration of the Yag vs more shallow IPLs, diodes, and alex machines. In that sense, she is correct. However, the issue that we discussed with you in regards to the IPL wasn’t that. It was the fact that it works by heating up the entire surface instead of just the hair. This makes the heat not as targetted and it provides higher potential for burns.

In terms of permanency, it all depends on settings. If they’re using good settings, you’ll still get permanent results. It’s just that due to the way IPLs work mentioned above, it may take longer.

If the hair is not back for 6+ months, it won’t return. If you see anything 2 years later after any hair removal treatments, it’s NEW hair, not returned hair.

#7

Thanks, Edokid and LA girl. I think she uses the YAG for hair removal too. I assumed it was a separate machine. The reason why I’m so reluctant to give up on IPL is that so far I’ve had good results. Except for very slight swelling and redness, which disappeared after a couple of hours I haven’t had any adverse skin effects. Lots of shedding after the first session and the density seems reduced by at least 80%. Of course I don’t know yet, if those 80% of hairs are permanently gone. Maybe I’ll ask her to do a patch test with the YAG anbd see how that goes.

Has anyone experienced laser/IPL stimulated hair growth on their face? That’s my main worry now. That and if after a future session my skin suddently decides to react badly. I’ve read cases where apparently even though the first few sessions went perfectly with no side effects, a later session suddenly resulted in burns or hyper/hypopigmentation, etc.

#8

If you’re really concerned and have no alternatives, you can also take a break from laser for 6 months or so to see what happens. A good time to do that was the summer months so you can enjoy the sun and tan etc. Then at least you’ll know for sure. I’d try to find out the make of the Yag as well and make sure it is a separate machine. If they use the Yag on the Quantum then you’d really get no results!

#9

I was thinking of taking a break after 1-2 more sessions (making it 4 in total then) to see what the longer term results are. Are there any detrimental effects of taking a break. FoDoes it make the treatment less efficient? For example if some follicles just get damaged, subjecting them to IPL/laser might disable them permanently, but if I take a break would they recover in that time?

The YAG is lumenis too. Not sure about the model. I’ll find out if it’s the same machine. Good to know that that isn’t suitable for hair removal. :slight_smile:

#10

You should space your treatments about 8-12 weeks apart. I wouldn’t take a break until you’ve had at least 5 good sessions with this spacing. Then wait 6 months and see what’s truly gone.

Both laser and IPL can stimulate growth. Don’t treat finer hair to avoid the risk.

#11

Is there a reason for not taking a break any time? I mean, would it actually make the treatment less effective and why?

Currently, I’m having my treatments 4-5 weeks apart. Is that too soon? After the first treatment, in fact my practitioner asked me if I wanted to come back after 2 weeks, which I thought was a bit fishy. Maybe she wasn’t expecting good results. I, however was quite happy with the results. My hair grows quite quickly (I think…subjectively) so would you recommend postponing the next treatment to make it 8-12 weeks?

I’m trying to tell her, which areas don’t need treatment, since I feel the hair growth isn’t that much (for example, the area below the corners of my mouth to my chin) but she told them taht actually that area does have a lot of hair (not sure why she is so eager to treat more…the cost would be the same. Maybe it’s more difficult to avoid areas than just treating everything???). But I guess, if it doesn’t bother me, I don’t have to get it treated, isn’t it? With all the potential side effects and risk of stimulating hair growth I’m trying to be very conservative and strictly only treat areas that have very dark, coarse and dense hair.

#12

Yes, your treatments are too frequent, which is why you feel you’re getting an 80% reduction. You’re simply not letting the hair grow out in full. You should be waiting 8-12 weeks. There shouldn’t be enough hair to treat at 4 weeks. Shedding only completes at 3 weeks, at which point you should be hairfree for several weeks.

You don’t need to argue with them over spacing. Just call and make your appt when you feel you have enough hair to treat. Treating too often will only make you need more treatments overall.

#13

That’s what I do. Even my new clinic which is super knowledgeable tries to book me in 6 weeks after my treatment day. I just tell them I have to consult my schedule and will call them when I want to book. Then I just wait until I feel it’s been minimum 6-12 weeks and that there’s enough hair grown back to warrant a second treatment.