Theoretically speaking, a wavelength between 750 and 1064 nm is attracted to melanin, so these lasers are suitable to treat hair removal.
The higher the wavelength is the better that laser works for fine hairs. So the best laser for any skin and hair type is an NdYag laser. I do not understand why do you think that only the Alexandrite will do the job for fine hairs, because is completely wrong.
We are very professional indeed, we have 18 clinics and just about to open 2 more clinics. We do not have Alexandrite lasers anymore since for the last 4- 5 years we have very good results with NdYags.
If you are looking for an Alexandrite only, unfortunately we cannot help you.
I am getting very confuse because in your Forum specialists and individuals are saying something else …Could it be that there are different theories in the lasers removal field?
I also read that all lasers are effective and it’s just a matter of selecting the proper setting for the individuals (except for darker skin types where a diode and an alexandrite can’t be used).
This phrase is where you are confused, and therefore the rest of your logic is wrong. SHORTER wavelength, NOT longer, is more effective on all types of hair, including finer hair. ND:Yag lasers were created to cater to darker skin types because shorter wavelengths also have more chance at burning the skin.
Btw, Candela makes the GentleLASE, which is an alexandrite laser and one of the most effective on the market. The only downside of an alexandrite laser is that it can only treat people with light skin. The clinics who only choose to use a diode or a Yag laser do it for business reasons because they can treat more skin types with those machines. So they care more about that more than providing the best possible treatments to the patients. (I should add that some have just been misinformed by the laser sales people pitching them those machines and didn’t do proper research on their own).
By the way this is not my comment but the DR’s comment (if you read the post).
At this point, I am just searching and trying to understand in order to find the best machine for my skin type III.
So the Dr. is saying long waves are better and you are saying shorter waves are better. OK could you explain to me why short is better?
Also I agree with you that Dr.'s are driven by business profit. What about this web site? Is sponsorded by the Candela company? it is so strange to see the Candela lasers recommended most of the time.
This website is not sponsored by anyone. It’s unbiased. Everyone contributing here is helping you at the expense of their time for free. If you look at the top, you can click and donate to help Andrea maintain this site. The ads you see at the top also help with this.
You can go to the library and do your own research on how laser works and what works best by reading studies and their conclusions. The main issue here is that you’re not understand the technology behind this, i.e. how laser actually kills hair and how these various machines differ.
We recommend what works, because when posters don’t use what we know works, they end up back here complaining about it. If you don’t want to understand the mechanics of laser, all you really have to do is read past experiences here and it will be obvious to you what works and what doesn’t. In the end, you have to make your own decision. I really don’t want to spend any of my time convincing you of anything, as I don’t get anything out of it except the satisfaction of helping you get the best results possible, just like I did about which you can read in the link below.
And we don’t only recommend Candela GentleLASE alexandrite for skin type III (who also make GentleYAG, so given your logic we should be recommending all their machines). Alexandrites are the best machines for skin type III because they’re the most powerful. You will get results with a Yag as well, just not as good because Yag lasers have to be less powerful to cater to darker skin (I hope you already understand that laser works by targeting dark pigment, so darker skins are more susceptible to burns). For type III, we recommend an alexandrite laser. It doesn’t matter which alexandrite you use as long as the clinic knows what they’re doing. However, Candela’s machines happen to get the best reviews because of the very low pulse of 3ms and the largest spot size availabe of 18mm of all alexandrites.
We’ve been doing this for over 10 years and have done over 400,000 treatments.
We have owned and operated the following laser systems. Please note that I said we owned and operated. In other words, we were not given these machines. We bought them at the current market price. The reason for this was to be able to understand the technology and not be beholden to anyone. What we wanted was to offer the best technology.
These are the different systems that we have owned over the years. We’ve owned multiple versions of the various models.
At this point, we are using the Candela Alex and YAG. We still use some of our older machines but they are approaching their end of life. Notice that we don’t just use YAGs. In fact, in most centers we have a mix of 2-3 Alexandrites for every YAG.
Now there are two ways to assess what we do.
Candela has either done a good job of snowing us or did something like either pay us or give us a good deal, to ensure that we buy their lasers. In blunt terms, maybe they paid us off.
After many years of focusing on laser treatments and careful analysis, we have settled on this mix of lasers from Candela because they provide better value to our customers.
I have not heard of Cynosure Apogee 7200 or 7500 Yag. Could it have been the Acclaim 7000 Yag ???
On another note, Alexandrite lasers penetrate 3 mm deep vs ND YAG
lasers that penetrate 5 mm deep. Therefore, an Alexandrite is always better for finer hair.
On the first comment you are right. It was the Acclaim not the Apogee. The 7200 was something I think they only made once and then upgraded to the 7500. The 7500 was built on the 9300 frame (power supply, etc) rather than the 7000 that was built on the 6200 frame. They didn’t sell a whole lot of them and discontinued them. And now that I think about it, a couple of the later ones I bought may have been 7000 because they don’t go beyond 10 mm spot size.
About your second comment. It is not technically correct. The YAG wavelength scatters less therefore it penetrates more deeply on average. The alex scatters more and so penetrates less deeply on average. But part of the effective penetration is also a function of the spot size not to mention what it is going through. Darker skin will penetrate less because more is absorbed at the surface. Your numbers are just generalities that vary quite a bit. It is better to just say that the YAG penetrates deeper than the Alex. How deep is hard to say.
As far as the alex being better for finer hair, yes that is correct, but it is not because of depth of penetration. It is because of the alex is better absorbed by melanin so a finer hair will absorb more energy from the alex wavelength than it will from the YAG wavelength.
SSlhr, thank you for your input. Yes, you are correct but I can write numerous rebuttals to your points about scatter and depth of penetration. However, we are not here to prove a point at the expense of others. We are here to guide consumers so that they can make educated decisions about the choice of lasers to use, etc.etc.
Perhaps one day we can meet at a convention and discuss these issues further.
I value your postings tremendously and I think you are a great asset to this Forum.
Maybe someday we might meet a convention. But that doesn’t mean that we can’t discuss it here and that it wouldn’t be of value to the people listening in. I think these kinds of discussions can be very meaningful and valuable, as long as they don’t degrade into some form of personal attack. And there is no reason for that to happen. And in the meantime, others can learn more about the issues that have to be taken into account when trying to decide what to believe when they hear someone make a statement where they are treating.
I like to think that my points are quite solidly based on science and what is really happening. But maybe I didn’t make my comments clear. Or maybe we have a difference on the science. Or maybe we are really saying the same thing but not realizing it because we haven’t made ourselves clear. Discussing this only clears up these kinds of issues.
So please, what are your rebuttals to what I said about scatter and depth of penetration.
I read an article about wavelenght in laser. Quote from this article:
"Shorter wavelengths are better absorbed by melanin, but do not penetrate deeply into skin; shorter wavelength lasers are most effective in patients with darker hair and lighter skin.
Conversely, longer wavelengths penetrate more deeply, and are not strongly absorbed by epidermal melanin, causing little skin reaction, but higher fluences must be used to deliver sufficient energy to damage the hair follicles. In practice, longer wavelength lasers are safer for patients with darker skin, but in any case more energy can be delivered to the hair follicles if there is more melanin in the hair and less in the skin."
In my original post my question or assumption was that perhaps a Yag laser could be effective for a type III if the operator used proper settings. Like the article states:” more energy can be delivered to the hair follicles if there is more melanin in the hair and less in the skin". That is why I though that all lasers could be effective for a type III skin if the certified technician knows about proper settings and techniques, as well as he or she is willing to take the time to properly laser the whole area treated.
I am not sure of your point. Under the proper conditions any laser is effective. There is an overlap between where the YAG and the Alex work best. A type III is in that overlap, but that is only true when other factors are present.
Bottom line, all things equal, the alex is always the better choice if it can be used effectively. How is that for circular logic, but it is completely true. The only time to prefer the YAG is when the alex can no longer be effective. An example would be where the power of the alex gets down into the 12-14 joules range, give or take some.
But it also makes a lot of sense that you recommend a laser with a large spot size 18 mm since it is faster and full coverage is easier to achieve. I don’t know about the maintenance or repair since I am a consumer but if the laser worth the money you spent than I understand why you are recommending it.
But for me as a consumer I am looking for something that will do the job and logically you are right I have more chance to get better result if the unit have a large spot size and it is more powerful.
Unfortunately, they are no place with the candela laser where it’s is affordable, where I trust the staff and that is close to where I live. (Yes I did the search in the Candela web site). Therefore I am looking for an alternative that will work.
Thanks for your explaination I learned a lot.
Muci