Yes, thats right…all the hair grew back on my cheeks, forehead, sideburns, chin and neck. There was no reduction (it seemed like more if anything) EXCEPT for on my upper lip…where there hairs are much less and finer…but they are still there. Also, I had 5 bikini trtmnts that ended four months ago,30 - 40% of the hair has returned. But after 20+ trtmnts, thousands of dollars, with a reputable practioner and a reputable laser (candela)…that was my result. Laser is not a success for me if it only worked on 10% of my face and not the other 90%. Also, please be careful…I never said I had “great results” about anything in my post. On the contrary, overall I think I have had very dissapointing results. But I also said that it works for some people in some places. Sorry if I was confusing.
HOWEVER MY story is really not the point…I wanted to ask how people feel about an at home laser…especially when I’m sure the technology is out there. In my opinion, we need to create the demand and awareness. Where there is a will there is a way. Palomar is already on its way towards developing one…we need to put pressure on other companies and up the competition. Any comments?!
I think if Palomar develops something that is actually affordable and most importantly works, other companies will follow suit without any extra pressure. They’re in this for the money, so if there is demand, you can be sure they’re jump in to gain profits.
i just wish there was a laser that could remove vellus hair thats dark and fine and that lasers were more for everyone darker skins included…what to do?!
…This is a study. A hard, concrete study. Science. Hard Science. Now, that laser has been on the market for years. You, show me a study that proves permanent hair removal. Please. I want to see one now.
SoftLight (Nd:YAG) laser: Facts for consumers
Summary
SoftLight is a brand name ThermoLase uses for their Nd:YAG hair removal laser. ThermoLase also owned and operated Spa Thira salons throughout the country which use SoftLight until their unprofitability forced them to spin them off.
SoftLight was the first laser cleared by FDA for hair removal in April 1995.
It was rushed to market without adequate testing and marketed falsely as permanent and painless.
Consumers, believing the hype or theoretical potential, rushed in to try treatment, basically paying to be guinea pigs.
Many consumers perceived an improvement during treatment, and even after treatment, some were convinced they’d had permanent results.
Three years later, SoftLight has been clinically proven to be temporary.
On May 26, 1998, a class action complaint was filed against Thermolase in California by a dissatisfied client, claiming they “advertised SoftLight laser hair removal as long lasting with the knowledge that such treatments did not achieve that result.” ThermoLase settled out of court in late 1998.
In summer, 1998, Thermolase announced the closing of its original Spa Thira in La Jolla, CA, along with others in affluent communities. Those rich folks ThermoLase targeted with their expensive experimental procedure decided there were better ways to spend a few thousand dollars than on a laser that worked only a little longer than a $75 wax job. The few remaining Thermolase spas have been folded into full-service Greenhouse spas.
SoftLight 2.0 is now available. They’ve elminiated pre-treatment waxing, but there is no clinical data indicating it’s any better than the temporary version it replaced.
This serves as a lesson that no matter how rosy the hype is, no other laser hair removal system has been available long enough to determine permanence. Any consumer, doctor, or marketer claiming laser permanence is misinformed, speculating or lying.
Introduction
This section is a no-brainer. SoftLight is the only laser that’s been out long enough to assess whether it’s permanent or not.
Turns out, SoftLight is not permanent at all. In fact, it’s 100% temporary. See the clinical data below.
I offer this up as a cautionary tale:
In April 1995, SoftLight lasers came out, proclaiming they were permanent. I urged a wait-and-see approach. For this, I was accused of defending electrolysis, being anti-technology, and even wanting people to have to suffer through electrolysis.
In May 1995, I invested in electrolysis. Others took a gamble on SoftLight.
I’m now just doing touch-up. SoftLight customers are playing catch-up. They gambled money and time on SoftLight and lost big time.
Those people paid thousands of dollars for treatment with no proof of permanence. Three years later, SoftLight has been clinically proven to be temporary. Even the Thermolase Corporation, which sent out a press release in April 1995 proclaiming that their SoftLight laser was permanent, now concede that was not true.
It took nearly two years of use on paying customers to prove definitively that SoftLight was not permanent, since its permanence was not determined clinically before being tested on the general public.
Anyone considering lasers needs to understand that there is absolutely no proof of permanence for any laser available today.
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Published clinical data
Below is the abstract of the best published result using SoftLight. Skip to the sentence in bold red:
Optimizing Treatment Parameters for Hair Removal Using a Topical Carbon-Based Solution and 1064-nm Q-Switched Neodymium:YAG Laser Energy. Christopher A. Nanni, MD; Tina S. Alster, MD
Objective: To determine the most effective treatment parameters for laser-assisted hair removal using a Q-switched neodymium:yttrium-aluminum-garnet (Nd:YAG) laser.
Design: Prospective study to determine the effectiveness of Q-switched Nd:YAG laser-assisted hair removal under varying pretreatment protocols. Hair growth was assessed after laser treatment, and the results were compared with those of wax epilation at 4, 12, and 24 weeks.
Setting: A private ambulatory laser facility and academic referral center.
Intervention: Laser-assisted hair removal was performed under 4 different pretreatment conditions. Eighteen areas of unwanted body and facial hair from 12 study subjects were divided into 4 quadrants. Wax epilation followed by application of a carbon-based solution and exposure to Q-switched Nd:YAG laser radiation was performed on 1 quadrant. A second quadrant was wax epilated and exposed to Q-switched Nd:YAG laser radiation without prior carbon solution application. A third quadrant was exposed to laser radiation alone, and a final quadrant was wax epilated to serve as the control. Follow-up evaluations at 1, 3, and 6 months consisted of photographic documentation, manual hair counts, and patient hair-density estimates.
Main Outcome Measure: Percentage of hair regrowth as assessed by objective hair counts and patient subjective evaluations.
Results: Mean percentage of hair regrowth at 1 month was 39.9% for the wax-carbon-laser quadrant, 46.7% for the wax-laser quadrant, 66.1% for the laser-alone quadrant, and 77.9% for the wax control quadrant. The percentage of hair regrowth approximately doubled by 3 months but was significantly delayed in all laser-treated quadrants regardless of pretreatment protocol. Full hair regrowth in all anatomic locations was observed by month 6. Patient subjective evaluations of hair density closely approximated hair count data. No adverse effects or long-term complications were observed.
Conclusions: A single hair-removal treatment with the Q-switched Nd:YAG laser is safe and effective in delaying hair growth for up to 3 months. Although the combination of pretreatment wax epilation and topical carbon solution application was effective, laser irradiation alone, with or without wax epilation, also provided a significant delay in hair growth.
Arch Dermatol. 1997;133:1546-1549
This was a study conducted by Dermatologists.
They know what they are doing.
Although this was for the Nd:YAG laser, the same results of non-permanence are surfacing with Diode lasers, Alexandrite lasers, and IPL. LHR is just not permanent. Your hair will come back within a year or so.
Do yourself a favor. Don’t believe in hype. Go get electrolysis.
Electrolysis works. It IS proven.
Don’t throw your money away.
This thread should truthfully be titled:
Laser Has Never Been Proven to Not Fail.
[quote
It took nearly two years on paying customers to prove definitively that SoftLight was not permanent, since its permanence was not determined clinically before being tested on the general public.
[/quote]
They only do studies for up to 12 months post-treatments for FDA approval. Noone is disputing that. However, it’s been a lot longer than 2 years since lasers like LightSheer and GentleLASE have been out. Softlight was the first laser on the market that was intended for hair removal use. This was 1995 as it says, and got discoveredi in 1997. It’s 2006 now, it’s been 10 years.
Stop arguing and show me the study to back up all that you say.
" They only do studies for up to 12 months post-treatments for FDA approval "
here’s one:
http://www.dr.dk/nyheder/htm/programmer/kontant/haarfjerningrapport.pdf
Mantaray,
You have to understand something, even if 999 people have LHR done and have no results, but 1 person achieves permanent reduction, then LHR is permanent. Maybe not for everyone, but if it works for 1 person out of 1000, it still works. I’m saying this because you cannot simply take one test, or even 100 tests, that show that LHR isn’t permanent, and use that to say that it doesn’t work. You can say that it didn’t work for the people who took the test, but it doesn’t mean that it won’t work for everyone. I am a living example that it does work. I’ve had numerous treatments done on various parts of my body. On my abs, for example, I’ve had 8 treatments, the last one 15 months ago, and I’ve had probably an 80% reduction. Now, you can always argue that this is just temporary, that the hair will come back in 10 years… but who cares??? if I can stay 15 months without hair than for me it works. There is no question that LHR WORKS, even if it’s not for everyone, but it WORKS!!! A friend of mine had LHR done 3 years ago and is still hair free.
I think one of the main things that Mantaray wants to know and see for himself is a CURRENT study on the effectiveness of laser. It seems to me, as well, that laser hair removal has advanced since the study he is talking about. There are supposedly better lasers that have been designed for LHR. That being said, I agree with Mantaray that it would behoove the hair removal industry to do a scientific, controlled study on the effectiveness of LHR. I mean, that would be great for sales. Because there does not appear to be one, it makes me wonder if LHR isn’t all that it is cracked up to be.
I have had good results and I know someone else really well that has had good results. I can’t complain and am very satisfied and I am sold on its effectiveness for ME. Perhaps, I am one of the luckier ones??? I tend to think LHR should work on most other people based on the theory of how LHR works and my personal experience. But, all people are different.
the link I posted above is a document dated 12/2004
It was widely known back in 2000-2001 that Softlight works very poorly. My practitioner told me back then it did not work and she actually had patients that had tried it and were not satisfied.
I got lucky on that one. In 1999, I was all signed up for a series of Softlight treatments and I had no way of knowing back then that it didn’t work. I actually showed up for my first treatment. I waited and waited and waited, then some receptionist asked me who I was waiting for. I told her the tech’s name and she said “Oh, she just quit the other day!” I didn’t like the sound of that, plus nobody notified me to cancel the appointment. So I left and got another practitioner. I found an ad in the paper for a prominent dermatologist in the area for hair removal and hair transplants, and went for a consultation. That is how found my current practitioner, and I followed her when she changed doctors for better pay and opportunities. I believe the practitioner is just as, if not more than, important than the machine.
When I very first started, I was told the truth about laser and the complete truth. Yes it will remove hair, it will take multiple treatments, and it will not remove every single hair, hence it is called permanent hair reduction. And yes, I was told it will not work for everyone. I got excellent results, and if I had it to do all over again I would.
The Softlight is a very short pulse laser, on the order of nanoseconds, and that is way too short of a pulse duration for hair removal. However, that does not mean that long pulse Nd:YAG lasers don’t work. Long pulse lasers use pulse widths in the range of 5-100ms depending on the device. Do the math, it’s a big difference. For me they worked very well on dark coarse hair on the beard.
I’ve gone over 3 years with no laser treatments on my abs and there is hardly any hair there, the same as after my last treatment. My experience has been that whatever hair doesn’t grow back within 2 months is not coming back. Ever.
That’s my clinical study and it’s good enough for me. And I would like to see some kind of scientific explanation that would make hair mysteriously grow back years later.
RJC2001