Laser Machine Types....

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

(Sorry in advance for the long post, but please bear with me!)

I’m a male with dark coarse hair and skin type around III-IV. My skin is kinda brown but not super dark.

I, like many others, started laser treatments without knowing the difference between IPL and true laser. I was being treated on different parts of my body for a little while with a Palomar (IPL) machine. It seemed to have some results, I would get some shedding and reduction/patchiness. Someone suggested I try the Apogee thinking it would be more effective, and I did a couple times. The thing is, I never got any shedding from that at all as far as I can recall, so I went back to the Palomar. Also, the Apogee never “felt” like it was very effective if that make sense.

This is weird to me because now that I’ve read on here that IPL works but not as well as a true laser (like the Apogee) why did I shed with the Palomar but not the Apogee? I don’t know the specific models or settings used but that’s the best I can do.

I also know that people can respond differently, but is this surprising at all? Why would this happen?

These days, the location moved and I just started on the Syneron eMax machine which is more painful than either the Apogee or Palomar and seems to sometimes even make a few hairs “pop” out. The practitioner told me they just got the machine and clients were getting great results from it. She told me it is a combo of laser and radio frequency (RF).

When I asked if it was true laser like the Apogee or IPL like the Palomar she said it’s hard to explain…then she said it’s both plus RF.

So far, I’ve only been treated twice with the eMax but it seems to cause more shedding even than the Palomar.

I’m very confused because my personal experiences have not necssarily made sense with what I’ve read here. Can anyone please offer me some guidance? I really have been reading and researching but there’s not much info on the eMax here. Does anyone know what kind of laser it is? Also, any opinions on RF technology? And can anyone address the issue of Palomar inducing shedding while Apogee didn’t? I really need help on this one guys…I’m all confused even after all this research I’ve been trying to do. I’ll do my best to answer any questions and/or provide additional information.

#2

I use diode laser at my clinic and as I’ve said before, we don’t see any shedding on people who were treated with IPL prior to the laser treatment, why? We have no idea but if you shave the hair after the treatment you can easily see that there isn’t much hair that grows back, so people are very happy even without shedding.

About Syneron products, I’ve worked with their IPLs about 2 years ago and they didn’t work AT ALL. I know that we have many people who tried elos and came back to us because that didn’t work.
About their line that uses both IPL and RF, i have no idea to say, in general RF is used for skin tightening or cellulite removal but who knows. I don’t personally trust Syneron, they are number 1 in the world in marketing their products but not in giving results.

#3

Your suspicions are correct. It’s mostly due to settings. You can use the very best machine, but if the settings are incorrectly set, you won’t see any difference at all. That’s the main problem you are having.

Another problem here is I’m not sure if you are correct in stating your skin type. If you can call your skin “brown”, you’re unlikely lighter than a type IV, which means you may need a Yag laser. That would mean none of those machines are appropriate and very low setting need (and probably were) used to avoid burning you. By the same token, pain depends on settings too. Higher settings hurt more.

What is your ethnic background?

Out of all those machines, Apogee is the best. However, Apogee can be an alex or a Yag. You don’t indicate which they used. Palomar IPLs are some of the better ones, but once again, settings need to be set correctly and on darker skin, they were probably low on purpose to avoid burning you. That’s the problem with using inappropriate later.

Syneron machines don’t get very good reviews. The RF component is a gimmick pretty much.

I say give us more info (including ethnic background, what AREA you’re treating, where you’re located, etc) and we can help you figure out the best way to go forward without wasting your money.

ODI - once again, shedding happens with IPL as long as the machine is used properly. the biggest problem with IPLs is usually that many are not powerful enough to cause permanent damage to the hair. If you didn’t see shedding with an IPL, it wasn’t used properly.

#4

Thanks for the replies.

To lagirl, I’m pretty sure my skin type is IV then. I am half middle eastern and half hispanic (hence all the hair) but my skin color is not super dark. It really is on the slightly lighter side of brown. Especially since I’m rarely in the sun these days so when I get pale I’m like whitish-brown if that makes sense.

I felt some pain with the Apogee but it wasn’t too bad really. I don’t know about the settings, but I can try and found out whether the Apogee they have is Alexandrite or Yag because I’m not sure myself. They really don’t offer a lot of information unless I pry them for it which is annoying. Sometimes I think they don’t even know. The place I’m going is in Walnut Creek, CA it’s called Brite Smile (formerly Pure Med Spa). I know they are a place that has been complained about, trust me, I am aware of the issues surrounding them. But I’m stuck for now because I bought a package deal from them a while back when I was more naive about all this. I really thought laser was just laser! Obviously I know now that it’s not that simple.

I actually live in Martinez but I’m going to be living in Berkeley soon.

I was doing a full body thing so I’ve treated many different areas, but I tried the Apogee they had on my neck, hands, and chest I think (it was a while back, when they were still in Concord). Right now I’m only doing the front of my neck but I want to eventually do other parts of my body as well.

Is Alexandrite stronger than Yag? Please don’t hesitate to suggest places aside from the one I’m going to. I’ll figure out my own mess with them, but I would like to hear all possibilities/options. Thanks.

#5

Alexandrite is more powerful, but it may not be suitable for you. Your skin type can only handle so much. It’s better to be treated on high settings on a Yag than to be undertreated with an alex.

My friend went to Aura Spa in SF and got great results. I know they have GentleLASE alex which is what she used. Not sure if they have a Yag. There is another recommended place in Palo Alto, zoolaser is the name I think. They have multiple lasers and are experienced. I would at least have a consultation there if you don’t mind the commute.

In terms of getting full body treatments, make sure you only treat areas with dense coarse hair.

And you’re definitely a type IV…maybe even V. Skin has underlying pigment, so even if you’re not tanned, there is still pigment present. Test spots would help determine what settings you can handle.

Yes, most places don’t provide settings, but you should feel free to ask. Ask for joules and pulse width primarily. Spot size would help to know as well.

#6

Well, virtually all the hair on my body IS dense coarse hair. And I’m not exaggerating lol.

Assuming my skin type is indeed somewhere around IV, do you think the GentleLASE is out of the question? And what about a diode laser like the LightSheer? I already found some places nearby that utilize that machine. Of course I know practitioner skill is crucial as well, but the FAQ made it seem like diode is kind of “inbetween” the alex and Yag lasers in terms of power. It said diode might work well for skin type IV in particular. What do you think? Is LightSheer possibly most suitable for my skin type without compromising too much power?

Oh, and do you have any advice for minimal settings required to do permanent damage to the hair follicles on each type of laser (alex, diode, yag) considering my skin type? Thanks so much for the help so far, I’ve learned a lot here already.

#7

You could potentially be light enough for GentleLASE if not tanned. The only way to find out is to go for a free test spot at one of the clinics. If you can handle 16J+ on 18mm spot size (max is 20J), then you’re good to go. If you can’t, I would go for LightSheer or Yag.

LightSheer is sort of the in-between and can be a good alternative for type IV skin. However, it’s not easy to use and someone really has to know how to adjust the settings correctly and operate it properly (no gliding method if at all possible and definitely using compression). I wouldn’t get treated at anything below 25J and anything above 30ms pulse on it. If your skin can’t handle those settings, then Yag would be better. GentleYAG is a great machine and can be almost as effective because of its large spot size of 18mm. LightSheer only comes in 9mm or 12mm spot size (12mm is better if you have an option).