LASER-INDUCED HAIR STIMULATION

I would really appreciate anyone’s advice on the following problem:

I had laser hair removal treatments (Alexandrite) on my arms and legs over several years beginning in my early twenties. It seemed to work reasonably well on my legs and has left me with about 50% of the hair I originally had, but on my arms I have experienced dramatic worsening, especially on my upper arms and near my shoulders. I’m a girl, by the way, with fair skin, and my hair was dark but very fine and soft before treatment - it’s now dark, thick, and completely unsightly (as if vellus hairs have been stimulated to turn into terminal). The hairs are sparser than they used to be, but look much worse.

The company doing my laser treatment refused to believe that this could be due to laser, but I had my hormones checked and I have no problems there. I continued to have many more treatments than are normally required for clearance, and the problem only got worse.

I eventually stopped a year ago, and switched to waxing - but this only gives me about 2 weeks without hair and then it comes back with a vengeance. I am desperate to sort out this problem, but I’ve had no luck finding laser practitioners who have experience dealing with this problem (and most won’t even admit that it happens).

Has anyone had experience and success treating hairs that have been stimulated in this way? Do you have any idea whether continued persistence over time with the laser could kill the strengthened hairs - it would seem logical that once they are darkened and thickened, they would be more responsive to the laser eventually.

The only alternative seems to be electrolysis - but now that I have been waxing for a year, I’m concerned that the follicles will be distorted, making it harder than it would have been. As it is, the laser (or perhaps the shaving before each treatment) has made the hairs on my upper arms grow in all different directions. I’m also worried that electrolysis would take hours and hours each week if I were to see any difference.

If anyone has heard of a similar experience, or has any words of wisdom, they would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Bea

Well, this does happen to some/many people. I don’t know the numbers. It’s been reported for years by consumers like yourself. I think they are being untruthful. This forum, cosmetic enhancements forum and the now defunct consumer beware site has had consumers reporting hair stimulation for years and most, if not all, laser clinic’s would say, “Gee, we haven’t seen this before.” There have even been published reports about laser hair stimulation and you can do your own search on hairtell about reports like yours on laser hair stimulation.

I would go with the sure bet - electrolysis - to get this behind you once and for all. If all electrologists would convert to computerized epilators and perform MicroFlash and PicoFlash thermolysis such statements such as “hours and hours” per week would not be such a concern. You were certainly patient when you were placing your hope in laser treatments, so you can probably see electrolysis through with more patience. I’m sorry this happened to you.

Can you submit some pictures? Would you care to disclose where you live?

Dee

Finer hairs shouldn’t be treated with laser specifically due to the issue that you experienced. You have to go with electrolysis to get rid of that hair because it’s too fine for laser to target. Don’t worry about hair follicles being “distorted”. Electrolysis can treat the hair in any condition.

Thank you so much for your replies!

I’m attaching a picture of my forearm - I bleached the hair a while back so some of them are blonde, but you can see clearly where the dark ones have grown back. It’s pretty much like this all over, and all the way up to my shoulders (which is the part which upsets me the most, because it looks really abnormal). It used to be more dense but much finer and a bit lighter in colour.

I live near London, and I used a reputable laser clinic in London (Harley Medical) for my treatment. At the time I finished treatment with them (about 2 years ago), there was not really much on the internet about this phenomenon - so it’s incredbily frustrating to see it becoming more accepted as time goes by, but too late for me to know about. The clinic repeatedly expressed bafflement, and even supposedly sent photographs to their specialist who also thought it was hormonal. I don’t think the settings they treated me on were too low, since I often got extreme redness for several days (which they said was a sign it was working), and the levels were raised every time.

Assuming that I don’t go back to laser, the problem I now have is that I don’t know where to go for the kind of faster electrolysis that Dee mentioned. I have been to a good place in central London once before, which I think uses quite a slow machine, and it’s definitely not computerised (I’m going to try and get the exact details of what they use, so maybe you could advise me on whether it would be a realistic project using their machine.) I had scabbing for about 2-3 weeks after, which then dropped off leaving healed skin beneath - I assume this is normal? The area that can be treated in a limited amount of time is not great, though, and I felt the lady was getting tired by the end of 45 minutes. However, she was recommended to me and I trust her - and I’m not sure how willing I would be to just try out another place without knowing that it wasn’t going to ruin my skin!

I have tried searching online for a place that uses microflash/picoflash technology in central London, but can’t seem to find anything. If anyone has any recommendations or experience I would be really grateful. It seems like we are behind the times on this side of the pond…

when you say fine hairs cannot be treated does that apply to anywhere?

because i had treatment on my chest but i found it weird leaving the fine hairs around the sides as its bare in the middle the fluff either side it looks rather weird… :S

Hi there,

I was just reading your post about finding a decent electrologist in London with flash computerised machines.
Have a look at the following:

http://directory.electrolysis.co.uk/directory_all.php

This is a list of all registered and highly qualified electrologist in the UK…I am currently seeing a lady in north london and she is fantastic, she makes you feel at ease and works largely with transgender clients and she has 20+ yrs experience. There are also a few other reccomendations on here for a lady in Walthamstow and Parkside beauty near camden is fantastic also.

If you want anymore info please pm me. I know how horrible this affliction is I have the same problem with my arms, I wax, I have done so since I was 12!!! I am 28 now. I can’t afford laser so maybe thats not such a bad thing. I am currently having my face treated so I know exactly what your going through, I too have very hairy upper arms and it’s upsetting becasue in summer you feel you cant wear sleevless tops.

I hope you find a good electrologist, just let me know if you want some info. :slight_smile:

There is a long thread somewhere on this forum where several posters from London discuss electrologists there. Run a search on the forum using the Advanced Search and you should be able to find it.

Can’t see the pictures - the link doesn’t work. You can upload them to www.photobucket.com and post the HTML tags they provide there here.

bea25:

I heard this is a common issue which also applied me. I am 28 y/old male, and I had laser induced stimulation on my upper arms. I didn’t know females might have the same problem, but you say so, then our situations resemble and I want to tell my experience.

I’ve had a total of 6 treatments on Upper Arms. Except the third one all of them were with Alexandrite. The third one was with a Diode laser. I went for my last one a month ago, as a 1-month post result I have %80 shedding, the most of the rest are in a stagnant state. Last week I’ve seen some of them getting back to growing phase. But it’s been only a month, so I exclude my last treatment and will talk about the first 5 ones.

First of all, I never had complete shedding. It ranged from %50 to %80. It seemed that laser was incapable of burning some fine hairs.

Before I started LHR, if I divide my upper arm into 3 equal regions, from top to bottom, the top and bottom had coarse hairs, and the middle region had only vellus hairs. After the first two treatments, vellus hairs turned into coarse, and after my 5th one, I still have coarse hair in the middle region. There is a general consensus that laser doesn’t work well for fine hairs. I agree, but for my upper arms it doesn’t work well for coarse either. I know you are a girl and you don’t have coarse hair, and what this has to do with your case? Well, my point is LHR destroys the coarse hairs on my upper arm, and they keep coming back; what if it is same for fine hairs? LHR takes care for coarse hair, and electrolysis can be used for fine hair, but fine hair may keep re-growing. I don’t want to be a downer here, I am just thinking about the possibilities. I mean, I didn’t have any coarse hair on my upper arms, and after LHR I have and I can’t get rid of them even if I kill them. It is like the follicles are awakened by laser. As to point out upper arms is a different characteristics region than other regions, say lower arms, my upper arm hair count far surpasses the lower arm hair count on a cm2 basis. I have %95 coarse and %5 fine hair on my arm, and on upper arm the numbers are %50 and %50. On lower arm, I have many hair-free patches, but I can’t say the same for the upper arm. Every little spot is full of hairs. It feels like, I have a pretty good supply of hairs on upper arm. You burn them, they compensate.

Before and after LHR comparison: I have a total of %50 more hairs post-LHR on upper arms compared to pre-LHR.

I also want to note there is another type of stimulation as I observed in my experience. LHR may also stimulate a neighbour region where it was not applied. This was true for neck sides. Just keep in mind.

I am sorry for your situation and can’t be any of help but wish you the best luck in your struggle. Maybe I am all wrong, and electrolysis does not interfere with subject or the neighbour follicles and it does not induce any hair regrowth. If you decide on electrolysis and achieve success, please let me know.

Note: I made a list of my treatment sessions. If you want to take a look at arm treatments, you can at http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/54716/My_LHR_history_male_Need_help.html#Post54716

By the way your photo upload can’t be downloaded.

Yes, laser can stimulate fine hair to become more coarse. This is especially true to upper arms, but can technically happen on any area. That’s why we advise against treating fine hair in the first place, to avoid this situation and because laser can’t affect fine hair anyway.

“Well, my point is LHR destroys the coarse hairs on my upper arm, and they keep coming back; what if it is same for fine hairs? LHR takes care for coarse hair, and electrolysis can be used for fine hair, but fine hair may keep re-growing. …” [color:#33FF33] Electrolysis is highly effective on very coarse, coarse, medium, fine and very fine hairs, no matter what the color of hair or skin. A commonly repeated myth taints the good name of electrolysis and that myth is that, electrolysis is for fine hairs and laser is for coarse hairs. Not true and I say that with passion because I witness the end results with electrolysis almost every day of my life. This a cruel myth that steers the hairy in the wrong direction many times when they are seeking permanent hair removal. Success is dependent on a skilled electrologist inserting the correct sized probe into the follicle and applying the proper amount of heat for the proper amount of time. Unfortunately, there is an acute shortage of electrologists in some areas of the globe, using quality equipment to serve good people like you.[/color]

“It is like the follicles are awakened by laser.
Before and after LHR comparison: I have a total of %50 more hairs post-LHR on upper arms compared to pre-LHR.”

[color:#33CC00] Yes, this is what happens.[/color]

“I also want to note there is another type of stimulation as I observed in my experience. LHR may also stimulate a neighbour region where it was not applied. This was true for neck sides. Just keep in mind.” [color:#33CC00] I have seen this in four of my clients as well. It’s a real shock to them, but they became hair-free with electrolysis and so can you. Electrolysis is the net clients fall in when further care is needed to achieve desired results.[/color]

“Maybe I am all wrong, and electrolysis does not interfere with subject or the neighbour follicles and it does not induce any hair regrowth. If you decide on electrolysis and achieve success, please let me know”.
[color:#33CC00] Electrolysis does not awaken and stir neighbor follicles. Many people have achieved success for over 130 years with electrolysis. The advent of computerization has made electrolysis a fail proof method in a decent time frame as long as certain variables are in the precise place for both client and electrolysis. It is my intense hope that electrologists that are stuck in the past will awaken and focus their effort and talent on using better tools to help good people like yourself achieve the purest form of permanent hair removal, the gold standard for ALL HAIR STRUCTURES, ALL HAIRS COLORS AND SKIN COLORS, which is still electrolysis. Most laser hair reduction programs can never bring people 100% removal and that is okay because a reduction is success for many, but they certainly are not happy when hair stimulates or leaves them patchy and these are your concerns[/color]

I would advise you to learn about electrolysis so you can combine it with your laser program. If there are not any professioanl electrologists near where you live, then you will have to make do with whatever laser can offer you at this point.

Dee

When we say that you should treat coarse hair with laser and fine hair with electrolysis, it’s not because electrolysis doesn’t work on coarse hair. It’s because it’s usually faster and cheaper to treat the coarse hair with laser and laser doesn’t work on fine hair. Electrolysis works on all types of hair.

I’ve had both done by the way on various areas with great success, so feel free to read my story at the link below.

“Well, my point is LHR destroys the coarse hairs on my upper arm, and they keep coming back; what if it is same for fine hairs? LHR takes care for coarse hair, and electrolysis can be used for fine hair, but fine hair may keep re-growing. …” [color:#33CC00]Electrolysis is highly effective on very coarse, coarse, medium, fine and very fine hairs, no matter what the color of hair or skin. A commonly repeated myth taints the good name of electrolysis and that myth is that, electrolysis is for fine hairs and laser is for coarse hairs. Not true and I say that with passion because I witness the end results with electrolysis almost every day of my life. This a cruel myth that steers the hairy in the wrong direction many times when they are seeking permanent hair removal. Success is dependent on a skilled electrologist inserting the correct sized probe into the follicle and applying the proper amount of heat for the proper amount of time. Unfortunately, there is an acute shortage of electrologists in some areas of the globe, using quality equipment to serve good people like you.[/color]

From what I wrote, it may be inferred, it is only good for fine hair. But, it is not true. Electrolysis can also be used for coarse hair. I should have clarified this earlier. Sorry about that.

I want to point out something else, before I started LHR, I might have had misconceptions about electrolysis. One of them was the regrowth pattern after electrolysis such that if you kill a coarse hair, no other finer hair grows from the same pore. I still don’t know if it is correct. Since I had only coarse hairs, I thought, if I did electrolysis then I will have had nearly bald skin which I truly hadn’t wanted. To support my idea, I can tell you, I’d never read anything relating to finer regrowth pattern of electrolysis, but it was written pretty everywhere that after laser you would still see hair coming out replacing dead hair, however they’d be softer and shorter. And laser applications are fast. These two parameters made me choose LHR.

You still have to go through hair growth cycles for laser just as you do for electrolysis, so that part isn’t faster. The time needed laying on a table is faster for laser than electrolysis.

You had a very good reductions for the most part. For two areas that you are having less results than you had hoped for with laser, you can continue to blast away with laser for how ever long it takes of you can switch over to electrolysis to refine the areas.

After killing a coarse hair, sometimes a smaller, weaker hair replaces the the bigger hair IIFFFFF some of the hair germ cells are left untouched from the first treatment. If you don’t want that finer hair hair, then zap it again with electrolysis and there will be no hair coming forth in the future. You don’t have to have bald skin with electrolysis, since we choose the individual hairs that we want treated. We treat some hairs and leave some hairs. I have a client that uses a pointer to lead me to hairs he doesn’t want on his chest and the rest are left alone.

You don’t have to explain why you chose LHR to me or anyone else. Your problem now is what to do for the patchiness and general refining of some areas and I’m offering you information that electrolysis is the answer to this hurdle you are now facing. The two modalities work hand in hand for many cases.

With either method, you cannot guarantee getting fine hair from coarse hair. It can happen, but don’t count on it. There is a good chance that the hair will be killed altogether. With electrolysis, you can make the hair appear more sparse by treating only some of the hairs.

You had a very good reductions for the most part. For two areas that you are having less results than you had hoped for with laser, you can continue to blast away with laser for how ever long it takes of you can switch over to electrolysis to refine the areas.

Your problem now is what to do for the patchiness and general refining of some areas and I’m offering you information that electrolysis is the answer to this hurdle you are now facing.

I’ve posted some photos on another thread, how can I use electrolysis effectively for these areas? The link is below:

http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/54799/Re_My_LHR_history_male_Need_he.html#Post54799

I was expecting to see more of a reduction. It looks like you need many more laser treatments.

So, you say electrolysis is not the wisest thing to do at this point?

Probably not. Since you verbalized in another thread that you will not laser touch your face again, electrolysis is the only way to advance your goal, but it will take a lot of time and money. Your only other choice is to live with yourself the way God made you.

I’m surprised by the amount of hair you have left after all this lasing. I was expecting a lot less, but I never saw before pictures either, to be fair.

You just can’t let any electrologist touch your face. You need a set of circumstances in place from the get go so you get results as soon as possible while leaving your skin in good condition.

Dee

It’s been only one month after my last laser treatment on the face. So, I will wait for some time to see how it will turn out. If it continues to bother me, I am afraid I will go with plucking, or lasering a couple of spots.

I’m surprised by the amount of hair you have left after all this lasing. I was expecting a lot less, but I never saw before pictures either, to be fair.

I don’t have detailed before pictures, but I can say the reduction is definitely much more than %50, maybe %65. So, laser worked for my case.

I have to do some research on electrolysis on male beard.

Thanks for your recommendations.