Laser in Bay Area

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#21

I had another laser treatment on lower legs from a different place this time. The settings were 15mm spot size, 25 J and 40 pulse rate. I am experiencing shedding after 12 days. I have black coarse hair and light indian color. it hurt most on ingrowns and on back of the calf where hair are the coarsest? Is it still too low a setting to effectively kill hair?

They seems to be conservative as far as settings are concerned. I think may be I have to tell them to use higher setting. I believe if hair gets lighter higher settings are required. How much setting should be used for next treatment? Any suggestions?

#22

Can you post a picture of your legs with the hair?

Those settings are OK. Not very bad. I’d suggest 30-40J/20ms/12mm spot size

#23

I am sorry I don’t have pictures before treatment. But here are 3 photos of my leg taken taken 3 weeks after the treatment with 15mm spot size, 25 J and 40 pulse rate. Significant amount of hair had been shed in this picture.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/82585423@N08/7559524842/in/photostream

Since these pictures were taken, some more hair shed but not all. Even after 1 month a few hair were remaining. So I had to shave to get a smooth feeling. Is it normal to need to shave after laser. Should not I expect 100% hair to fall?

What should be the settings for next treatment after 6 weeks?

#24

Any comments on these pictures taken after 3 weeks of lhr on legs? Is it ok if 20% of hair don’t shed after a month of treatment? What should be next settings. I appreciate any suggestion.

Can someone tell me how to calculate total energy using joules, pulse rate and spot size. How 20 ms is different than 40 ms.

I want to inform myself so that I could tell them what exact setting I want them to work with for each treatment.

#25

laser hair removal is not recommended for darker skin! I do not know what her specific skin-type is, but please, please, i would advise to talk to a doctor before seeking treatment! Most ethical professionals will not perform laser treatment on medium-dark to dark skin tones. It can cause scarring and keloids.

There are some very effective prescription hair removal products out there now that have been approved for adults. From what I understand, some can be used on all skin tones. Electrolysis might also be an option, but again, u should consult a doctor with experience in dermatology.

#26

I am going to have my first bikini treatment next week. Is it ok to ‘demand’ 30 J/15 mm spot/20ms pulse width?

I believe my first leg treatment was too low a setting. With the help of this forum I want to decide my own settings for each treatment. Please let me know if this is too high. Any response will be appreciated.

#27

No it is NOT ok to “demand” specific settings. If you go in and throw your weight around you are setting yourself up for a poor relationship with your provider. You might discuss the merits of a particular setting, but if you start making demands, chances are they will show you the door (I know I would). It’s more than just settings on a machine. If you knew everything about how to administer a safe and effective treatment, you would be holding the laser handpiece, not on the treatment table!

#28

In the hands on trainings that I have done with practitioners around the world, we have shown that the same machine being used by different practitioners on the same person, in the same area with either the same, or different vision and lighting equipment will end up having a different treatment settings being used as the work rate. This is because, each person’s insertion technique is different, and the positioning of the probe will not match up. Since the work rate is dictated by the intersection of the insertion and treatment energy that causes the desired treatment field, this would have to be the case.

While the treatment energy one practitioner uses on you may be instructive, it would NOT be a dictate. This is one more reason why I am against certification programs, as the monopolistic nature of them would dictate that testing done, say with my work rates be “certified” as correct, and then foisted upon the world under the alleged jurisdiction of the certification program, and in that case, the “law of electrolysis” would make sure that poor treatment was the case for anyone who was not being seen specifically by me.

Allow the person doing your work to come to their understanding of what you need, and if you disagree with the results, seek others to do the work… which brings us back to, seek out many consultations and sample treatments before you choose a practitioner to be your hair removal choice. How can you make such a decision without seeking a wide view of what is available? I am sure that Brenton has had a wide eyed awakening on his journey around the country getting work here and there by a slew of hair removal specialists from varied practices.

#29

Thanks for your reply James. My feelings are completely aligned with your analysis but I could have not said it so beautifully.

I did not see any shedding on my first laser treatment. I think setting was too low. I have read posts by girls from same ethnic/color background as me. They report much higher settings used on them. I believe if I educate myself through the experience of others (practitioners and clients alike) I can have better understanding of how I should be treated.

Unfortunately my experience is that some laser practitioners many times don’t have enough experience and knowledge of the machine they are using. I doubt that they understand the possible effects of tweaking the setting. While making small talk I asked my 1st laser practitioner about her experience in this field. She was working there for 2 months only and before that she was a nanny. I asked how did she choose these settings, she told me these settings are the ‘policy’. Turns out i didn’t see any shedding.

I don’t want to be disrespectful but I don’t have too much money to waste on ineffective treatments. I want each and every treatment to be effective. I want somebody who would plan my hair removal for me. Looking at my color and hair they should know what strategy they are going to use for my hair removal goal for next 5/6 treatments. I doubt killing hair in less than 6 treatments is their goal here. My first laser place wanted to charge me for six treatments in advance. That means they have no interest in finishing early.

I have moved on to the next place which seems better. I am going there for my first underarm treatment tomorrow. I like the place, I like the people but I want to be very involved with what they are doing on me so that I could get this thing done more effectively, efficiently and may be in less number of treatments.

I am sorry to say that not all laser practitioners are aware of what are they doing in terms of how much energy they are imparting. I just want to help them with the help of this forum in achieving my hair removal goal. I don’t mean to disrespect or offend anyone.

if any experienced laser practitioner could provide me with a formula to calculate energy that will be helpful. My legs were treated on 25 J/15mm and /40 ms. It didn’t hurt at all. If I ask for 30J and 20 ms what does it mean in terms of generated energy.

#30

This is very much true. I became very surprised learning about different techniques used in hair removal, both for electrolysis and laser. Of course the technique for laser is a bit more… limiting if you will. It’s the electrolysis techniques that are more interesting because they are so varied. It was also fun telling one electrologist “Oh, I’ve met this person” and hearing them tell me that they know of that person and how they don’t like their technique.

30J is 30J. That’s your energy no matter what. The pulse width however determines how quickly those 30J are delivered. Think of it this way: You give some energy to the hair. That energy will dissipate rather quickly. So, the faster you can give that energy, the faster the hair will heat up so it can be killed, which needs to be done before the hair essentially cools itself back down.

I also agree with you about laser techs not always aware of what they’re doing. I don’t know where you’ve been treated, but I will say that in my experience, I have had much better treatments at dermatologists’ offices rather than “spas.” I went to a place where they have “policy” settings… it doesn’t work (or if it does, you have to wait a long time before they’re willing to increase the settings to where you have a chance of it working.) After this spa I went to, I learned about a dermatologist’s office through someone on hairtell (it’s about a 1 hour, 15 minute drive from me.) Knowing what I do now, I wish I just started there to begin with. So from my experience, I would try to find a recommendation either on here, or start with a dermatologist’s office. The dermatologist might be more expensive (the one I go to actually is very competitive, if not cheaper than some of the spas, but I think that’s a rare occurrence)… but from my experience, they seem more willing to use higher settings.

#31

Brenton that was a great reply. Thankyou. I read the following research paper about spot size. You explained it more clearly for me.

http://www.aesthetic.lumenis.com/pdf/5343.pdf

I have seen in another post that a girl’s upper bikini was treated at 30ms and lower at 35 ms while all other settings remained unchanged. What is the effect of changing pulse width?

This place has Cynosure Apogee Elite which I believe has two modes, 755-nm Alexandrite laser and the 1064-nm Nd:YAG laser. If they use yag mode on me, will it be safe to go up to 35 J with 15 mm spot size on type 3/4 skin? This is a picture of my leg to give you idea of color.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/82585423@N08/7559524842/in/photostream

#32

To me, you seem darker than a skin type III. You look more to be a 4, so I would suspect they will use the YAG laser on you. It may also be the lighting, but I’ll be honest and say I’m not the best at guessing skin types. It’s impossible to know online whether or not going that high will be safe on you. They will have to see how your skin reacts. If you want some guidelines though, here are the apogee elite “suggessted parameters” (about half way through the document):

http://www.cynosure.com/products/elite/pdf/Aesthetic-Trends-Article-Apogee-Elite.pdf

I’m a little confused about what that means. The advantage of lowering the pulse width is that you are more likely to kill the hair. The disadvantage is that the risk of burns increases because you’re increasing the amount of energy given in a specific time interval. The lower the pulse width you can handle, the better the treatment will be.

#33

Thanks Brenton. You are right I probably am a type 4. I tan very very easily. I had my first underarms treatment today. The settings were yag mode at 40J /40 ms/12 mm spot. She initially chose 10 mm spot size but I requested bigger spot size. I like her attitude and that she was not offended by my request. She told me that they don’t go above 12 mm spot size on armpit area though. Treatment was somewhat painful but bearable without numbing cream. Cold air definitely helped. She told me that she plan to increase settings as we go.

#34

Those settings definitely sound better. I’m super pale so I only look at the alex portion of lasers, so my experience with YAG is far more limited. If they plan to increase settings, it sounds like you’ve found a really good place. Congrats!

#35

Thanks Brenton. I will be back in couple of weeks with my results.

#36

LAgirl asked me this on the other thread.

“Thanks. Are you sure you’re a type IV? Average Indian skin is typically darker. Those settings seem to indicate that as well. Are you seeing good shedding on all areas? Why are they using a smaller spot size on bikini and underarms?”

Indian people have varying skin tone light to dark as you go from North to South. I believe I am skin IV, some indians have lighter skin than me and others have darker. A picture of my leg after my second treatment is posted here. Please let me know what you thin.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/82585423@N08/7559524842/in/photostream

As mentioned in this thread previously I am having hard time with my laser place to use higher settings for me. My legs were under treated in first two treatments and i noticed only 50% shedding. Only third treatment gave me 80-90% shedding.

I am not sure why they are using small spot size. I didn’t make an issue because other poster named stoppit&tidyup also had treatment with small spot size on these area.

Is bigger always better? even for small areas? Please let me know.

Thanks,

#37

Thanks for clarifying. I’ve been to India and am aware of various skin types. :slight_smile: Based on your photo, you may be between IV and V (skin types are approximate). I wouldn’t say IV. But once again, they’re estimated.

Yes, bigger spot size is better. Try to go with that on all areas, though it seems they drop down the joules significantly when they use a larger spot size. I would try to push for at least 30J with 15mm. Have them test several settings to confirn your skin will be ok.