Laser Hair Removal - Beware

I found this site recently while seeking a possible solution to my hair dilemna. very educational site.

I thought it might be a good idea to post my experience with with Laser hair removal so that it might educate viewers when going in for laser treatments. I started off with about 30 or so hairs on my back, mostly in the shoulderblade and lower back area. I am a dark haired fair complected person so laser was highly recommended as a solution. They use the Candela Gentlelase and Cutera XEO at this clinic, the one they used for my treatments has the cold blast first then the laser pulse. I was told that it is the best and the most modern equipment. After the first treatment, I was very pleased as the hairs eventually fell out. I was told when I started there that it might take anywhere from 3 to 5 treatments. They were close, after about 6 treatments the original hairs were practically all gone. However, during the process, most of my entire back began to grow long fine, dark hairs, mainly around the areas treated, on my lats, top of my back and back of my shoulders especially. After questioning the clinic over and over, I finally was able to discuss the issue with the manager who said that this can occur as the laser also can stimulate hair growth. This includes causing finer hairs to become more prominent. When I asked why it is not disclosed on their contract she said that it rarely if ever happens. She convinced me to extend my treatment and that by upping the level of the laser, the hairs should be removed. Well, we tried this and after almost twelve, extremely painful sessions ont he highest setting for the laser(25), the hairs are still there. Fortunately there was no burning or scarring. After asking more questions, one of the technicians said that they are getting more and more complaints like this.

Beware: because the clinics probably won’t tell you about this. I actually went to 5 differnet clinics before settling on the one that I eventually chose and not one mentioned this during consultation.

  • If anyone has had this occur, please respond. I’d like to know what to do about removing the new hair growth, if it is possible. Maybe the equipment used is not the best…any suggestions?? Thank you in advance.

sounds like they’re using GentleLASE on you and 25 joules is not the highest setting. there are posts from people who went up to 40-45 joules or so…

it’s usually not a good idea to treat only 30 hairs because if undertreated, it sometimes can cause results like yours unfortuantely. it’s pretty rare and mostly happens on a women’s faces.

also, are you absolutely sure these hairs weren’t there before? sometimes when one starts these treatments, they start paying a lot more attention to the areas and examining them a lot closer than before. so maybe you didn’t notice these before because the dark hairs were so prominent and now that the dark ones are gone, the fine hairs are more noticeable? also, given the fact that they’re on your back…I would assume it’s kind of hard to examine closely…

another explanation could be that you are still young and still developing new hair, so you would have gotten these whether you had laser treatments or not. how old are you?

hope this helps a bit…

How old are you? It is possible that the hairs you see were going to grow anyway regardless of whether you had laser hair removal or not. But for sake of discussion, lets assume the hair did result from laser treatments.

You will find the following technical paper interesting: Laser Hair Removal Treatment Parameters

Pay special attention to the table on page 3. The Gentlelase Plus, when used with the 18mm spot size, has a maximum fluence of only 20 Joules! That is way too low for effective hair removal. Notice that the Altus (now Cutera) Coolglide has much higher fluences available at 10mm spot sizes.

Regardless of the laser, 20J is too low for effective hair removal. You were undertreated, probably because the practitioner did not totally understand the machine they were using. Either they did not know what the maximum available fluence is, or they don’t undeerstand the relationship between spot size and available fluence. Lack of practitioner competence is an issue here.

RJC2001

Thank you lagirl and RCJ2001; your assistance is greatly appreciated. I am 40 years old, male. I suppose that some of the hairs could be from age, however, it is a fairly large amount. Although the body has many very fine hairs these have grown to a much larger size and are not anywhere near what it was prior to treatment…and appeared imediately following my 2nd treatment. Just odd as no one in my family has more than a couple hairs on their back; along with their comment that the laser can stimulate hair growth. Do you know if this is true? I certainly do not want more hair (LOL).

I appreciate the article RCJ2001; very informative and helpful!

Do either of you, or anyone else know of a reputable laser hair removal office in the Los Angeles area? One that would apply the correct amount of joules. I would like to remedy this if possible.

Thank you again.

where did you go in Los Angeles? I am in LA as well. here’s a link to a thread where we discussed places in Los Angeles. I tried 2 of them, but at each one I had to push to get them to up the settings. Learn as much as you can about laser on here and other forums, so that you can help yourself get the best treatments so to speak.

http://www.hairtell.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/25053/an/0/page/0

The same thing happened to my boyfriend when he did the laser on his back, except he had a lot more than 30 hairs. They also used the GentleLASE on him, however, I am not sure what the settings were. He had 6 treatments spaced at the correct intervals. Unfortunately, he has vowed never to do laser again because he is convinced that it doesn’t work due to the large amount of extra hair growth in the treated area. However, I am convinced that it just might if he trys again in the future. His hair really bothers him and he will never go swimming or take off his shirt (even during intimacy). It is frusterating for me to see him this unhappy. However, I have just started treatments on different parts of my body so maybe it will prove to him that it actually can work. It is also a good lesson to educate yourself about the laser, the energy used, the company, and the technitian. It makes a big difference! And high price doesn’t necessary mean high quality!

I went to AsthetiCure in Beverly Hills, on Wilshire Blvd. When I started treatment they were called ImageCare. I believe they have another location in Encino on Ventura Blvd.

Thank you lagirl for the link, I will investigate before any further treatment.

Cycler, sorry to hear about your boyfriend - it is upsetting. I was only removing the few on my back as they were thick and prominent. Wish I had just 30 or so again.

If I find a good source, I will be happy to share it with you throught his forum.

oh ok. i do know about this place. i called them, but thought they sounded like too much “sales”, so I chose to go to a doctor in Beverly Hills instead.

Hi Blink, I believe I am seeing the same phenomenon on my shoulders and towards my collarbones. But I had hair on most of my back, althoug some areas was much more dense, so I can’t say that I am experiencing as much new hair growth as you are.
It sound really scary what you experienced and I hope no one will have to experience it. I sometimes wonder if one should do LHR at all.

Is the new hair growth evenly distributed on your back? I meen if you compare the two sides.

Blink, a also wonder, did the new hair growth on your back spread more and more and become more dense the more treatments you underwent (you write that you have had 12 treatments)?

Hi iranianboysweeden,

Yes the hairgrowth is fairly evenly distributed. I had maybe 12 to 15 treatments actually. I can’t recall the exact number right now. The oddity of it was that the hairs were not there prior to my treatments (or they were very, very fine hair only - not noticiable at all), then immediately following my 2nd treatment, they grew in. They started on the top of my back, very long (maybe 2") whereas before they were not visible. Then yes, with more treatments, maybe by my 4th, they were on my lats and more dense there. I think the mistake was that the technician that treted me the 2nd and 3rd time (every other time I had a different technician), lasered a stray hair or two thinking that it might help me. I beleive now that due to the low setting of the laser and this action caused more hairgrowth in areas where it might not have normally occurred, or at least until I was much older. I hope that this helps you and anyone else reading.

lagirl, thanks for the info. I read your past posts. Which clinic/doctor did you have the best results with? Thanks!

I tried 2 clinics and am most satisfied with Dr Babapour in Beverly Hills on Bedford Dr. He uses GentleLASE. He IS a bit conservative on settings, but I am pushing for higher because what is left now are just small areas with finer hairs and not a lot of them. I’m going to go back for my hopefully last treatment on bikini and underarms basically just to spot treat those few areas left.

I don’t know if he is the best option for you due to his conservatism in settings, but I would suggest that you find someone who uses either LightSheer or GentleLASE and will be willing to go up very high in settings for you at least for one treatment. High being at least 40 joules or so and short pulse treatments. For a man’s back in general, you want to be treated at as high of settings as possible without burning your skin so that you definitely KILL the hair and not just temporarily damage it. It’s worth a try for one more treatment at a high setting.

Thanks for the answer Blink.
But I wonder, has the hair on your back now reached a limit? I meen did it continue to expand up to the 12:th treatment or did it stop at some point?
And are the new hairs so fine that laser can’t kill them of?
A have read one article about a case like you, here is the summary of the article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query…mp;query_hl=197

Thank you lagirl and RCJ2001; your assistance is greatly appreciated. I am 40 years old, male. I suppose that some of the hairs could be from age, however, it is a fairly large amount. Although the body has many very fine hairs these have grown to a much larger size and are not anywhere near what it was prior to treatment…and appeared imediately following my 2nd treatment. Just odd as no one in my family has more than a couple hairs on their back; along with their comment that the laser can stimulate hair growth. Do you know if this is true? I certainly do not want more hair (LOL).

I appreciate the article RCJ2001; very informative and helpful!

Do either of you, or anyone else know of a reputable laser hair removal office in the Los Angeles area? One that would apply the correct amount of joules. I would like to remedy this if possible.

Thank you again.

Since you’re 40, I don’t think the new hair growth resulted from just age. It does sound like the Gentlelase may be to blame. My practitioner tried a Gentlelase and she didn’t like it. I never went into detail because she had the Apogee which was working pretty good (other than the machine breaking down). After that she used the Lightsheer on my chest, back, and arms.

A knowledgeable practitioner should realize that 20J is not enough for most people. When the Gentlelase maxed out at 20J with that spot size, they should have wondered why there was such a limitation, and that a smaller spot size was necessary. Of course the smaller spot size slows down treatment. When I saw that table and the 18mm/20J limitation, I knew why so many people did not get good results with the Gentlelase. Lagirl got better results, but they must have used a different spot size.

The best machines allow both a good spot size and high fluence levels to be used at the same time. The Lightsheer diode, the Coolglide, and the Sciton are good examples. If your skin is light, you can try a practitioner with a Lightsheer that has enough confidence in their ability to use higher fluences. You should be able to tolerate 45-50J with light skin. One combination that worked very well on me was 50J at 100ms pulse width. It worked very well on relatively fine hair. At this point I would stay away from the alexandrites. You are less likely to scab with a diode laser at higher fluences. At least that was my experience. Also the 810mm wavelength of the Lightsheer will penetrate deeper into the hair follicle.

RJC2001

just fyi, I was treated at 14 joules and 16 joules, both at 18mm spot size. So yes, the treatment was quick. For my next treatment, I’m definitely planning to go up to at least 25-30 joules and down in spot size significanly, 12mm or 9mm. I’ll update on that later.

iranianboySweden,
the article you attached sounds about right in my case, thank you. The hair on my back grew in surrounding areas to the treated sections at the time when regrowth occurs after a treatment. It seems to have grown in more on my lats then before, since my last treatment. The hairs grew in a bit thinner (diameter wise), but more dense than the original 30 or so that I had removed, and about 2" long (thin, long, dark hair). I had laser treatment to the ones that grew in on the top of my back (shoulder area) maybe 6 - 7 times and this last time around they have not grown in as long (so far, still waiting to see). My lats area was treated 4 - 5 times and grew in a bit more this last round. My experience with the AsthtiCure technicians is that they only wanted to do the minimum possible treatment, and if a hair is just starting to grow in, they often times missed many. I have to go in each time for a “touch up” treatment. So the overlap, as in the article that RCJ2001 provided, was also minimal at times.

RJC2001 and lagirl,
it sounds like I should try to find a knowledgeable technician using LightSheer, or one of the other 2 lasers that RCJ2001 listed.

I have been told that it is important to catch the hair in the beginning of the regrowth stage, which I have done to the best of my ability. Just wondering if I am catching this at the right time. Does anyone know exactly what timing would be optimal for retreatment, based on the regrowth? My dilemna has been like I mentioned above that the technicians claim that they don’t see the hairs in this stage. If I wait until they claim they can, I have a growth spurt within one week and the hairs are then 2" long. Also “touch up” treatments - When is the optimal time to schedule these? Currently they schedule mine about 10 days after the original treatment.

Thank you to all!

if you shave the area, whatever grows back in within a few days is in anagen, first growth phase. touch-ups should be done 2-3 weeks after the treatment when all hair that was treated has shed.