laser gone bad....

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

When I was 18, I started laser treatment on my face (sideburn area). It wasn’t actually too bad. I had done any form of hair removal prior to treatment. I was just being a perfectionist. Unfortunately, after many treatments (I’m 23 now) I actually have hair growth all over my face, including my chin and down my neck. (I guess in the interest in doing a thorough job, they kept covering larger and larger areas). Some of the hair is pretty thick too (the thick hairs are on my chin/sideburn area, neck is thinner hair). Now I have to use nair once every few days. Sometimes I find a couple hairs on my neck that I’ve been missing for a while and I’ve found some almost an inch long. Who knows how much longer they can get!

I’ve stopped getting treatments a few months ago. I’ve talked to the owner about a month ago. He was nice about the situation, and was willing to “work something out.” However, when I had met him he couldn’t give me advice since I had recently used nair on my face. Hopefully I will see him again this Saturday.

Now my question is: What might have stimulated the hair on my face to grow? Was it the shaving prior to treatment, or the laser treatment itself?

Any other advice on what I should do now will also be appreciated.

Thanks for reading my long post and for all the advice!

#2

You need electrolysis for your face. I am not proponent of LHR for female facial hair because of outcomes like yours.

Laser induced hair stimulation is reported more than I care to hear about. It is one of the reasons why my electrolysis practice is quite active. My clients have observed this, but I also wonder if it is a coincidence that all this hair popped up at the same time and may be due to genetics or change in hormonal envirnment?? They insist it is not. Shaving did not cause this. If low fluences are used, that could be a trigger for this??? I’ll find an article about this so you can read up and then draw your own conclusions.

What is your skin color? Your age? color of hair? So all these areas were treated or did you treat one area and hair appeared in an adjacent area? what kind of laser was used? Did it hurt? Can you submit pictures?

Dee

#3

  • I’m assuming you’re female, is this correct?

  • It sounds like you experienced induced growth which is usually due to treating hair that’s not coarse enough and usually also using low settings. Part of the growth could also be due to your age and some of it would have developed in these few years regardless.

  • Btw, have you ever been tested by an endocrinologist for hormonal conditions? You should just to see if there is something in your body causing the body to produce the growth. You need to know this since hair removal methods can ONLY treat hair that’s currently growing. They can’t prevent your body from developing NEW growth.

  • At this point, definitely not more laser treatments. You need electrolysis for this situation. It doesn’t sound like the hair ever was or is now coarse enough for laser.

#4

Yes I’m female, 23, of Mediterranean descent. My skin color is fair and my hair color is brown.
Dee, all the areas were eventually treated. It started out with just the sideburn area and with each session the treatment area just spread. I am just letting the hair grow now, maybe in a few days I can try to submit the pics.

I was also wondering if it might be a hormonal condition, but I would guess not. My menstrual cycle is normal/regular and my underarms and bikini lines, which I had laser treatments for when I was 18 or 19, still show decreased hair growth. If it was a hormonal condition, wouldn’t I have hair regrowth in these other areas as well?

#5

Women of your ethnic background usually tend to have more hair. So it’s likely just that. I personally just prefer to be safe than sorry.

Unfortunately, mediterranean women also tend to experience more induced growth on the face. This is PRIMARY due to the fact that the hair is not coarse enough for laser. They really shouldn’t have touched anything else after the first sign of induced growth. Now you pretty much need electrolysis.

Part of the hair would have grown in anyway due to your age. You were still during a phase (and still are) when new hair is developing.

Btw, what % reduction did you receive on our underarms and bikini? It doesn’t sound like you got most of it removed, which should have happened with good treatments since the hair there is coarse. I’m thinking this clinic is not the greatest due to what they did with your face, so that’s also why you don’t have GREAT results on the other areas with coarse hair when you should (90%+ is completely possible and expected on those two areas).

#6

The same exact thing happened to me!!! :frowning: I’ve been trying to read about this phenomenon on the internet but haven’t found anything.

I did laser and then all of a sudden out of nowhere a few months later I have hair all over my neck (never ever had that) and along my jaw, chin, etc thick and dark. Terrible. I had spent so much money and laser and it made my condition infinitely worse. I then found someone that specialized in electrolysis, I spent hundreds upon hundreds of dollars, went in twice a week and she would work and work and work (at that point I had a lot of hair) and honestly I don’t think it made one bit of a difference.

Its so depressing - its ruined my skin and I can’t keep up with other methods of hair removal. I don’t have any hormonal imbalances either as I’ve seen two doctors about this.

#7

Electrolysis is all you got. There is nothing else as of May 2009 that will relieve you of this hair. Your case is particularly frustrating not only to you, but to any electrologist that gets the priviledge to work on you. For your situation, the ideal set up to bring this under control -PERMANENTLY would look like this:

*A skilled professional, highly trained electrologist who invests in continuing education and understands her /his epilator well would be the number one factor. Following that, would be the equipment choice and modality used.

*Find an electrologist that has brought her/his equipment choice up to the better brands of computerized epilators that are capable of doing the faster modes of thermolysis, such as, microflash and picoflash thermolysis. These modes are superior for treating large amounts of hair. The added feature of using the auto sensor mode (no footswitch), speeds this along quite nicely.

*Choose an electrologist that uses quality vision wear such as surgical loupes or stereo magnification. Sam’s Club type reading glasses are meant for reading, not for doing microsurgery, as is done for electrolysis. Those hairs can be pretty tiny and light in color. Good vision wear protects the health of the electrologist’s eyes and protects the skin of the client, as we can see any undesireable skin changes immediately and correct intensity and timing levels. Over treatment of the skin and embarrassing skin reactions that follow scare clients and makes them very unhappy.

  • Quality lighting, either halogen or LED type, obviously aids in helping the electrologist see skin changes so skin is not ruined. Quality lighting aids in keeping the electrologist’s eyes healthy. There is less eyestrain and headaches after a long day of removing hair.

You have nothing else to relieve you of this burden. The best thing you can do is hunt for an electrologist that has modernized her/his office and is well trained with the best equipment available today. You will still need somewhere between 9-18 months of regular treatments to clear up this mess. Maybe longer, if this is quite severe? If you are not willing to take on this project, then you will have no choice but to continue with temporary methods that will damage your skin and perhaps strengthen the hair. Your depression will remain unless you will yourself not to be depressed.

Dee

#8

Question - how long and how often should treatments be? How much should be charged for each session?

I have a lot on my neck and chin. On my chin I have thick sparse hairs and on my neck are the thin, dark ones. Its really a lot of hair, I have no idea how they would be able to get it all. Once you get the follicle, do you have to retreat it or is it pretty much gone?

The previous electrologist I went to seemed to be very qualified but I obviously have no real way of judging.

#9

I don’t know what your definition is about having a lot of hair on your chin and neck??? For electrologists that have a modern setup, education and skills, it is very easy to remove 500 -1,000 hairs an hour on the face and neck. For most clients, that makes a very powerful visual impact. Clients come in frequently saying they have tons of hair. What is a lot of hair to them is fairly easy for a skilled electrologist to clear and keep cleared. The best electrologists are not intimidated by “lots of hair” if they have a great set up. You have to follow a good schedule that corresponds the cycling in of new hair comes as it comes to the surface.

Cost per session depends on the overhead of the electrologist. Some command more money than they deserve and some command less and should really get paid more for what they can deliver. National average per hour is probably now around $70/hour.

Treatments should be every week until you get a full clearance. After that, every 2-4 weeks?? I wouldn’t go beyond six weeks without a full clearance.

You say, you have no idea how they will get all the hair because you have so much. Leave that worry to the electrologist. Again, what may seem like a lot to you, is common place for what electrologists see everyday.

One zap can permanently disable a follicle, but some follicles may need another treatment later on. You will always have some regrowth along with the new growth, but just keep pushing forward to clear of all bothersome hair as it appears over the first 9 months. It takes at least this long for every hair to come to the surface just ONE time!

If you are not patient, then don’t even start. Electrolysis is dependent on the hair growth cycles. Hair is coming to the skin surface in dribs and drabs everyday and there is nothing you or your electrologist can do about this. At some point, the hair may sychronize and you will not need to clip or shave for a week or so. At this point, your appointments spread out even further.

Give that previous electrologist another look. She should really be teaching you and giving guidance. If she doesn’t offer details, then search hairtell. We have written books here about every aspect of electrolysis care.

Remember, electrolysis does not provide instant gratification, but proper electrolysis care and behavior will bring you permanent results. Both you and your electrologist need to partner and communicate. YOU NEED TO INTERVIEW AS MANY AS YOU CAN before you decide who will do this best. Get sample treatments and compare.

Dee

#10

I think the key is finding a GOOD electrologist. But really, how many are in one given area within a certain radius of where one lives? The lady I went to before, she was accredited, had the certifications, etc but honestly I think she robbed me of my $$. I went in what seemed like a billion times. We did twice a week for 1.5 hours. I don’t know if she worked slow or what, but if someone wants to zap 500 hairs in an hour that means they have to do 8 hairs per second. I know for a fact that she didn’t work THAT fast. She was doing one every, I dont know, six seconds or so. Also, a lot of it has to do with how they place the needle and whether they get the hair at the right time of the cycle. She spoke as if she knew what she was doing but my gut was telling me she was taking me for a ride and trying to keep me as a customer as long as possible knowing full well how much distress something like this causes people and how they are willing to pay big bucks to get rid of it. After 8 months or so, I saw no difference, absolutely none.

#11

Do you guys know which laser hair removal machine was used in your treatments? From what I’ve seen in the past, those results are likely to occur when using IPL but a good diode laser machine will give good results even with facial hair.

#12

I think you are promoting a certain laser for your own benefit. Am I wrong? Your website listed in your signature proves that to me. If you want to come forth and say I own this business in Toronto, Canada and I would be glad to see anyone interested in laser hair reduction for a free consultation, then that’s what we call going through the front door. Answer some questions here and be up front about the services you offer. It’s okay.

I do not promote any light-based system for facial hair on women, especially women of color. I have observed many cases of laser induced hair stimulation and it’s not pretty. It is a real challenge to to tackle the large amount of hair left behind, but strategic electrolysis care and well-timed appointments for 9-18 months will give the woman back a “hair-free” face . It costs the client in time spent on the table, not to mention the amount of money they need to correct the problem, but is is really the only place she can turn to to releive her of the hair - permanently.

Dee

#13

I do not sell any laser machines, i do own the blog in my signature which obviously i hope to promote by helping people from my own vast experience of owning a laser clinic.

From what I’ve seen on people, IPL can cause hair stimulation (i wonder why none came up with an IPL machine to grow hair for men or something) specially on tricky areas like the face.

#14

I didn’t say you were selling laser machines, odi, my point was that you were giving a thumbs up to technology that can cause hair stimulation. Any light-based system is capable of stimulating hair on a woman’s face, including the diode laser that is used at your clinic. It’s a gamble and people should know it is a gamble before laying their money down for female facial hair removal.

Did I get that right, your clinic uses a Soprano XL?

Male baldness is different from the hair on the face. I doubt that a light-based system could stimulate hair, unless something else was added to the mix.

Dee

#15

We’ve used various IPL machines before, usually it would appear as if the hair is gone and growing more slowly but after a course of a very long time it all comes back again, no matter how much energy we put into it or how many sessions the clients paid for.

And then we tried the Soprano XL, we so far after at least hundred clients had 0 problems with it. Further more, people who started with the Soprano XL were hair free after only 4 sessions, people who had IPL treatments before, are seeing results but much slower than those who only tried with the Soprano XL.

#16

sorry for the late reply, I’ve was really bust this past week.

in my underarms i would guess the reduction is 60% and my bikini 70%. I had these treatments done when I was 18-19. My mom also went to the same place and she had maybe 90%. I’m guessing it’s because of my age? I still agree with you that they should’ve stopped at the 1st sign of induced growth. I put more faith in them than I should’ve.

I actually went to talk to the laser practitioner (correct term??) this last Saturday. She does electrolysis as well but seems to have a strong bias towards laser. I was asking about my induced growth and mentioned I’ve found out with my online research that this is a possible outcome. She said it’s either a hormonal issue + at my age it’s normal to grow more hair, that had I not done the laser, I would have still seen this growth. I admitted part of my growth may be due to my age, but I kept going with the idea that the laser may have induced it.
She said that she could not think of any physiological reason that laser would induce growth, and insisted that this was not the problem.
However, after looking at my file again, I realized that I already showed induced growth only 5 months after I started treatment. I doubt I would’ve had that much of a growth spurt in that little time. Unfortunately, I realized this after our appointment, so I wasn’t able to mention it to her.
I’m going to try to stop by again this weekend. If you know any physiological reasons this may occur, or scientific articles stating this incidence, please let me know. I would really appreciate it. I think it would be very useful for me to be able to show “evidence” they have made a mistake.

adfdf, sorry to hear you have this problem too. I know how frustrating it can be. Good luck finding a better electrologist. It probably won’t be for a while, but I will let you know how it goes.

#17

Electrolysis is slow and very tedious, much more profitable to use laser, i guess if you thought electrolysis is a better solution then it would be smarter to look for a place that specialize in that.

Also, if you started when you were 18 and now 23 then a lot have changed in terms of technology and I’m sure the place changed it’s equipment at least once, each new machine promise to give better results and more comfort but the problem is they are all new at the time and they can’t tell whether it really work or not. Only after a lot of treatments and time they will know if it gives results and if not they are likely to buy a different machine.

Most clinics can’t say that the problem is with the machine so they blame the client and try to get you to do more sessions before they give you any free ones. Some places will say after 10 treatments half price and some will reach an agreement with you that after X amount of sessions they wont charge anything, and there are those who will say that we only promised you 60% hair reduction. I even saw not long ago someone saying that you need to do touch ups every few months and that it is still by far cheaper than waxing or other methods so it makes it ok, yea right…

#18

It sounds like she was too slow. Electrologists need to realize that clients want the hair off fast. That is possible to do for most cases if the electrologist has a very good set up, including vision wear. Some practitioners work slower than need be and guess what, that is a real turn off for the paying client. The client gives up and then where can they go for help?

#19

the laser used on me is a sheer diode laser…but that whole debate is off topic.

I just want to know if there is a physiological explanation for why the hair growth was induced or any other sort of evidence that this occurs. I really want to show to them they have made a mistake. It is important to me to have this come to their attention. I wouldn’t want them to repeat the same mistake on anyone else and I’m also hoping that they will try to remedy their mistake and provide complementary or discounted electrolysis for the induced hair growth.

#20

Go to the search box and type in induced hair stimulation. Look up sslhr posts. He is a physician that has laser center and is has given very trustworthy information in all of his posts. He talked very thoughtfully about this. Go to pubmed.com and do a search there. If you can’t find anything, I will post an article or two about this. I would do it for you now, but am on the run.

Dee