This may be a question I should already know but I don’t. I am not sure how to figure out my kill rate % and I would really like to know. What method or methods does everyone use to calculate this percentage?
You remind me of a certain student of mine who wants to quantify everything down to the 3rd significant figure. I don’t know if I ever got her out of that habit.
I will be the dork who makes himself look bad by saying no one can really say what their actual kill rate percentage is. Anyone who says they do (outside of good or bad) is exaggerating, guessing, or some such.
You know you are doing good work when the clients are getting more space cleared in the same amount of time, and finished in a reasonable amount of time if they stay on a good schedule.
Thanks James, I just worry sometimes that I could be doing better if I just had?
[quote=James W. Walker VII
Anyone who says they do (outside of good or bad) is exaggerating, guessing, or some such.
[/quote]
Everyone agrees with this statement?
Although James did not mention my name, I feel directly alluded because for years I’ve been said that calculate your % of kill rate is not only possible but desirable.
It is not an exaggeration or a guessing pick a skin area that has not been touched at least 8 months before, and treat all, absolutely all the hairs that the human eye can see in several Cm2, wait a year and see what percentage of hairs grew in this small test area. If your kill rate is the desired percentage, the regrowth is only the % corresponding to the hairs that were exogenous phase at the time of the test. This percentage varies according to each area, but except in underarm and pubic area rarely exceeds 20%. So, if you opt for to test in arm, or leg, you must subtract the 20% to the amount of regrowth and remaining amount is your % of kill rate. You can do the calculations for the number of hairs present when making the second clearing, or by the time you invest in this second clearing respect you used the first time.
Good question Gretchen!
I was NOT alluding, directing or in any way talking about you dear lady. I was only making a point that actual stats are elusive based on the inability to know how many active follicles are in the area, mark the treated follicles, and have hard numbers to work with. While you, I, and many people we know could say that on a good day, our kill rate must be high, maybe in the 90th percentile and more, to say a hard number, like, 86%, 97.2% would be hard to support with actual stats.
It does seem that we agree that it takes a year to have any idea about the possible effectiveness. If we don’t, agree on that, then, oh well… I will just leave the conversation to you all.
We agree on many more things, my dear gentleman, including the difficulty of identifying the number of active follicles today, and / or how many will be activated tomorrow regarding the amount of hairs treated in the test. This is why I insist on treating ALL hair that the human eye can see, better if using a magnifying instrument (something that we agree too). Unless the client suffers any type of cancer, or are taking any medication as immunosuppressants, etc, the likelihood of inactive follicles in areas that have completed development of terminal hairs, such as arms, legs, underarms, pubic area , etc, develop thicker hairs are negligible. For if so, treatment of finer hairs in the area would prevent this from happening. Since before terminal hair there was an intermediate hair, and before intermediate hair there was a fine hair.
I go after every hair I see in an area, unless its the face and I need to scatter insertions in the first sessions because the hairs are so close together.
I don’t know what my kill rate is. I just know that the first six months are the hardest, from month six to nine, it is obvious that something good is happening and at month 12, we are basically 90-95% finished. Somewhere between month 12 and 18. We are really finished - no more new best friend. 
Thanks Josefa, I was hoping that there was an actual formula. Of course there are a few more variables that will come into play with my own results. Although after a few more years those variables will narrow. Now to find someone who will let me work on one spot of their body once a year, and I’d rather it not be me. Dee I have so far gone off what you have said in the past and your last post, after six to nine months there should be a noticeable difference, your best new friend is almost gone.
Gretchen, as a prospective student I would say that this method will give you a very clear indicator of your kill rate. If you are treating, say a square on the thigh of untouched hair you must completely clear all the hairs - follicles are present in groups of 3, so you need to make sure you get all 3 whenever all 3 are present.
Jossie’s kill rate is close to, if not, 100%. The only hairs to appear after the clearance are the ones which were in exogen. There is no doubt that it takes a lot of skill and experience but it is possible and therefore a goal to work towards.
James, let me emphasize more with this issue, but first I should make a clarification: I have to admit feeling some skepticism when I read more than once that you said that the results can not be assessed until a year later, during the same time or in the months surrounding the hairs were removed. Date on which the time of hair cycle repeats. I could not find the logic in this statement, I mean, if the hairs are dead remain dead every month of the year, the area should be clearly distinguishable from the rest by the time of time. This was my logical deduction. Until I did that little test on my son’s beard (the poor will never forgive me). The point is that for several months of the year, the small area where I did that test (I swear they were just 4 or 5 hairs removed) is barely identifiable, and during the other months, there it is, perfectly clear. In short, James you were RIGHT!
Here is the proof, the photo was made today, 2 ½ years later, during the months in which the reduction is more noticeable.
There is a factor that makes now the contrast is greater, the rest of the beard has matured enough.
The thread with the photos published in 2010:
That boy truly loves his mother 
Gretchen I Love your slogan, “killing is my business and business is good” I looked at your web site too and it is one of the best I have ever seen.
xx
On the thread above- I have been working hard to understand growth cycles, kill rates, treatment schedules and how to describe these concepts in an easy to say/easy to understand way.
These discussions have helped immensely and I was wondering how other pro’s put it to their clients?
I do agree with James, but I am not saying you don’t get your stated kill rate, Josefa. I seem to see a lot of women with hormonal issues that cause them to grow more hair over time. A kill rate statement sounds great, but I believe my clients benefit more from statements about why they may have grown this hair. The granddaughter of a woman with a “bluebeard” may very well need electrolysis throughout her life to avoid ending up like grandma.
Barbara, I personally don’t think the discourse is about that.
To me, it’s about an electrologist having an estimate on whether the follicles they are treating are being completely destroyed. This is if one is aiming to kill every follicle they treat. Josefa and Michael are the only two electrologists that I have thus far heard explicitly say that this is their aim regardless of the hair growth phase… as long the hair is present in the follicle to treat. As a student, doing the test Josefa outlined on the previous page, I may find that only 50% of the follicles I treated were actually completely destroyed. Well yes, I can treat the regrowth again… or I can strive to get that figure to 100%.
Women with hormonal issues, male body areas… they can be expect to have dormant follicles start to produce hairs as the years go by. Those clients can expect further electrolysis throughout or later in life and it’s important this is understood by them. But it’s equally important that they know that with properly performed electrolysis, they can have effective work that will rid them of the hair problem for X amount of time. Michael has shown a few pics of what happens to male clients who have a certain area cleared and the hair pattern later in life… it’s very obvious where the work was previously done. Women with hormonal issues who have had effective work generally get a few years of respite and only every need some short touch ups every year or couple of years.
It’s unfortunate that some electrologist’s (no one here) use those same reasons as excuses for why the client is still seeing them after 5 years or whatever. It’s those electrologist’s who really need a lesson in kill rates and reducing treated follicle regrowth.
Just to add, one of the most important things I’ve learnt is about the misconception regarding which part/s of the follicle requires targeting and also during which growth stage of the follicle. Obviously, if one has the wrong idea or information about the structure and hair growth then one will not destroy many of the follicles they treat. Unfortunately, this is pretty common over here in the UK.