I’m updating some information on the other site, and I’m moving these archived comments about Kalo hair inhibitor here.
Kalo is NOT RECOMMENDED.
posted 07-28-2002 05:18 PM
I tested Kalo to see if it lived up to claims like these:
"Kalo safely and effectively inhibits unwanted body hair from growing back permanently. You will never need to deal with waxing, tweezing, laser or electrolysis again.’
"Kalo is a true permanent hair removal solution. Kalo does not need to be used for the rest of your life.’
"Eliminate unwanted body hair forever.’
Kalo did not live up to these claims.
As far as the money-back guarantee, this is a classic ploy used by questionable companies. Some even offer double or triple your money back, because they know they’ll still make a profit.
I discuss the win-win for promoters of money-back guarantees as item #2 here.
Bottom line: whatever you want to call it, Kalo has no proof that continued use will eventually lead to never needing to remove hair in the treated area again. That’s why I tell consumers to avoid your product. These sorts of claims are unfounded at best and fraudulent at worst.
Administrator posted 07-28-2002 05:26 PM
there are some problems with our message board. We recently went to a two server system to ensure that we never had down time. It seems to be making a mess of our message board. I will grant you that we do not have proof that the hair will be inhibited for ever. I dont think anyone can prove that. Our product does inhibit the hair that we do have proof of. As far as we can tell the hair will stay away for ever, there is no reason to believe that hair that has been gone for over 6 months will return.
I would like you to show me a company that gives double and triple your money back for a product that doesnt work. I could make money buying that product.
There may be companies that make such an offer but then never give your moeny back, (that isnt much of a guarantee.) We have never refused to give anyone there money back.
In fact any refunds we do have are provided promptly.
I will make a post at your site. Lets see how long my post lasts.hairfacts
unregistered posted 07-28-2002 05:35 PM
Tom writes: “I will grant you that we do not have proof that the hair will be inhibited for ever.”
Hmm, yet you promote your product with claims like:
“Remove unwanted body hair permanently, safely, and effectively.”
“Kalo safely and effectively inhibits unwanted body hair from growing back permanently.”
OK, so now you qualify and say that’s not really true, but maybe six months? I haven’t even heard of anyone who can go six months after using your product without having hair return in the treated area.
This kind of deceptive and unsubstantiated advertising is what gives the hair removal industry a bad name. You are selling false hope and profiting from misleading consumers. I wish I could make you understand how wrong that is.
As far as money-back guarantees, go to Google and type in “double money back” and “triple money back” and you’ll find all kinds of scams with these money-back offers.
The burden of proof to back up your claims with legitimate data is on you. you haven’t met that burden of proof, and consumers should avoid your product until you provide some legitimate proof that it works under controlled conditions, and just how well they can expect it to work.
“Remove unwanted body hair permanently, safely, and effectively.”
“Kalo is a true permanent hair removal solution.”
Look on the front page of their site for more unsubstantiated claims.
Oh, and look at the name of that domain. See where it says “hair-removal”?
The only thing I am against is unsubstantiated claims. I have plenty of good things to say about all the legitimate methods of hair removal. I have nothing against experimental products that are backed with published data, like topical soymilk as a hair inhibitor.
I know you will never understand this, but Kalo makes claims that it will cause permanent results, and there is not one shred of scientific evidence at this time that this claim is true. Consumers should demand proof. That’s all.
Joe mentions: “Who knows what the truth is, but I know this tho, not unless you try you will never know.” I couldn’t agree more. Unless you try a controlled experiment with a large group of subjects under scientific conditions to see its effects, you will never know. Individual consumer experiences are completely unscientific and are full of too many variables to make any valid scientific assessment.
Fortunately for Kalo, there will always be people like X3055 who don’t really care about things like facts and science. Swing by my site a year after you’ve finished using Kalo, and we’ll talk about your results.
Junior Member posted 07-29-2002 04:58 PM
Andrea’s previous post : “Unless you try a controlled experiment with a large group of subjects under scientific conditions to see its effects, you will never know. Individual consumer experiences are completely unscientific and are full of too many variables to make any valid scientific assessment.”
One thing that you must realize is that permanency is a relative term. There are myriad instances of hair returning after alleged “permanency”. These causes range from certain illnesses (kidney problems, thyroid disorders, and the like) to medications which trigger hair growth.
The fact of the matter is that hair follicles cover every portion of our body except for the palms of our hands and soles of our feet. Ostensibly, most people enjoy dormant follicles in what would otherwise be a socially unattractive place to grow hair.
(Some)electrologists are notorious for making permanency claims without knowing the science of hair removal, the consistency and regularity of visits, and the treatment of the hair and its follicle in the most crucial stage (anagen). In some instances, people see results with electrolysis and enjoy “permanent” removal. However, this is not necessarily de facto as people (whom I know personally) agonized through seven years of needle electrolysis with mediocre results and new scars.
Maybe electrolysis has the scientific data to validate their permanency claims, but just bear in mind that even the most time tested method of treatment doesn’t guarantee results for everyone. Your argument about the Kalo’s false claims of permanency may be accurate for SOME; however, for those who are experiencing results with Kalo and are truthful as such,
your claim is unfounded.
I understand your premise, though: Caveat Emptor. And to that, I am thankful for watchdog groups.
unregistered posted 07-29-2002 07:43 PM
I am one who has been using kalo for a whole year now.
It seems to me that you are just as passionate about getting ripped off as I am. Although, I believe you could stand to be a bit more studious.
Before I bought kalo, I did what I would consider a minimal amount of research on it. At no time did I believe that it was a hair remover.
The instructions say that it is to be used after hair removal to inhibit the hair from growing back. This was always the information given out, both on the site, by Tom, and others.
I also read the study that suggested that it works better on some areas then on others.
Other peoples reports seemed to confirm this, and, I quickly learned that it did appear to be quite true.
From reading your post on your own forum, you only used it for 3 months, perhaps improperly.
In my experience, that is no where NEAR enough time to make any kind of judgement on it. For me at least, kalo is a slow deliberate journey then a wonder product.
If I may explain.
Sadly, I am quite a bit hairier then most of the “hairless primates” on this earth.
I have tried everything I can afford. Starting with simple shaving, then moving on to the horrors of waxing. I became quite accustomed to tweezing… more then some folks would consider appropriate for a young male.
Again and again, I knowingly lept for the empty promises of television.
Twice have I been burned by Igia products, both literally and financially.
Electric tweezer wands, waxing gels, strips, and pads. Chemical depilators.
Transdermal gel/pad electrolysis…
Yeah, I’ve done that. Even home electrolysis with the little needle. The horror.
Then I found out about kalo while searching for hair removal. I wandered into, of all places, a transvestite forum.
I figured that these people should know what works, and what doesn’t. And they seemed adamant that kalo worked, and was permanent.
I waited a good long while before buying it. I decided to be patient. More patient then I probably should be, considering.
What they say about some areas working faster then others certainly seems to be true.
I use both tweezing and a rotary epilator to accomplish what I consider a total area session.
I have logged 26 complete hair removal sessions on my eyebrows (tweezer only).
… I am only NOW seeing a reduction in growth.
However, I have only completed 5 sessions on my arms, and am already very happy with the results.
8 Sessions on my under arms has started to show promise as well.
10 and 12 sessions below the belt have yielded very moderate results.
But only 3 on my feet have done wonders.
Only 3 sessions on my backside has shown a dramatic thinning of the hairs, and reduction in density.
But 5 on the area beside that has been less stellar.
5 sessions on my shoulders has certainly done some good.
Other areas have only seen 1 session each, as I need more kalo before I can
continue these new places, such as my back.
I know how quickly it takes for my hair to regrow, so I certainly know that it takes much longer for hair to regrow when I use kalo.
Perhaps if in another 2 years this doesn’t work, I will be on your side.
But for now, I shall stay the course. It seems to be working. Painfully slow and expensive? Yes.
A scam? From what I have seen on myself, I don’t think so.PettyRevenger
unregistered posted 07-29-2002 07:46 PM
Oh, and about deleting posts…
None of my posts have ever been deleted, though many probably should have.
unregistered posted 07-29-2002 11:26 PM
Hi Cloudbreak and PettyRevengerâ€”
Thanks for your notes, and allow me to make a couple of comments.
I know this is long, but hair removal is a complicated issue.
The unreliability of personal results
PettyRevenger, I am aware that Kalo claims to be a hair inhibitor and not a hair remover, and that it is to be used in conjunction with a method of epilation. When I tried it myself, I used it after epilation using a rotary epilator on my hand and arms and applied it according to instructions. By the time I finished my 2-ounce tube, I had seen no inhibition in comparison to the area where I had not used it. But you are falling into the same trap that I am trying to get others to avoid: personal experiences are highly unreliable and completely unscientific when it comes to something as complicated as assessing a gradual change in hair growth patterns over months and years.
For instance, a lot of women who have plucked their eyebrows 26 times have permanent reduction in the number of hairs, even if they donâ€™t use Kalo. The only way to tell if your result is actually caused by the Kalo, or merely by repeated plucking, would be to have a few hundred women do this under controlled clinical conditions. Thatâ€™s the only way to tell if itâ€™s the Kalo or not.
Even under controlled clinical conditions, itâ€™s very difficult to assess improvement with a product that claims to inhibit hair growth. Letâ€™s take Vaniqa, a legitimate product that backs up its claims with published data involving hundreds of women. Perhaps the most striking result was how many women in the control group (who used cream with no active ingredient) were observed to have less hair. Of 201 patients, over one-third who used a placebo were assessed by physicians as either "improved’ or "marked improvement.’
This huge number of "false positives’ means two things for consumers seeking hair removal:
-It’s really hard to tell if a new hair inhibitor is effective or not, especially based on the personal experiences of just a few people.
-It’s really easy for quacks to exploit this difficulty and make overblown claims about products they promote.
That’s why you should rely on large-scale controlled studies to determine if a hair removal product is effective.
Cloudbreak, as I state on my site, I completely agree that electrolysis does not work for everyone, and I cite several published studies which bear this out. The two largest suggest about 90-93% of consumers will respond to treatment in a satisfactory manner. It appears from other published studies that those who do not respond to treatment are more likely to have a medical condition exacerbating their hair growth.
In addition, the larger published studies were performed at clinics where electrologists had received proper training and had the experience and skill to ensure proper technique. Those who go to unskilled or inexperienced practitioners significantly increase the likelihood of scarring and poor results.
One of the main reasons I began my site was because I had such a struggle with electrolysis myself. My practitioner, while a wonderful person, was not well-trained and was practicing in a state where there is no regulation. I picked her from the phone book, and when I went in, I thought you got your hair cleared once and you were done. My results were permanent, but since it took such a long time, was so expensive, and caused some scarring, I began writing up tips on how to find the best practitioner and get the most out of treatments.
The other major reason I started my site was to help clear up all the confusion in the marketplace about the word "permanent’ as it applies to hair removal. That brings me to a couple of issues regarding semantics.
Cloudbreak, permanency is technically not a relative term. Permanent cannot be declined as an adjective. There is no such word as permanenter or permanentest, because it either is or it isnâ€™t permanent. There are lots or per- words in our language like this, such as perfect. Something is either perfect or it isnâ€™t. Thatâ€™s the reason the Federal Trade Commission has sued makes of gravestones for claiming their markers are "a permanent memorial to your loved one.’ Nothing is permanent in that sense.
Technically, permanent hair removal is the complete and irreversible disabling of a follicleâ€™s ability to generate a hair. This is a very tall order, since each follicle contains stem cells which can regenerate completely unless all the stem cells in the growth matrix have been obliterated.
However, it is possible to completely and permanently disable a hair follicle. The difficulty is doing this without damaging the surrounding tissue. Laser and electrolysis can do this, but it takes considerable skill to disable a single follicle, let alone hundreds or thousands. And this does nothing for all of the dormant follicles. As you note, we all have dormant follicles that may or may not generate a hair in the future, depending on many variables.
The marketers of Kalo are the ones claiming they cause "permanent hair removal,’ by which they seem to mean "permanent hair inhibition.’ Whatever term you want to call it, the issue at hand is that they claim your follicles will be permanently disabled after you stop using Kalo.
This is the crux of my issue with products like Kalo. There is no proof whatsoever that you can expect this result after you stop using Kalo. These product have not been demonstrated to do anything that causes the permanent disabling of follicles.
Anyone marketing a product thatâ€™s intended to manage or eliminate hair knows that the word "permanent’ will get a consumerâ€™s attention. In fact, one of the easiest ways to tell a hair removal product is a scam is if they use they phrase "painless and permanent.’ That simply has not been proven to exist, but it moves product like you wouldnâ€™t believe.
Because the term "permanent’ is thrown around so much in hair removal, I have focused my energies on evaluating claims of permanence.
Using Kalo for a year is obviously great for the manufacturer, but what Iâ€™m interested in is find all the people who havenâ€™t used it in a year who have this permanent result they claim. Where are all the men who used Kalo in 1997 and havenâ€™t shaved since 1999? Where are all the women who started using Kalo in 1998 and havenâ€™t shaved their legs this century? Believe me, if they were out there, weâ€™d hear about it, and all other methods of hair removal would be obsolete. In addition, a huge pharmaceutical would have bought Tom and friends out for a kajillion dollars and the stuff would be on TV even more than Vaniqa.
Because Vaniqa is a scientifically tested product put out by a reputable manufacturer, they limit their claims to those they have proven scientifically. Thatâ€™s why they only make claims about hair on the upper lips and chins of females. They have not tested it under other conditions.
Perhaps most importantly, Vaniqa did follow-up clinical observation and noted that like all other topical products that affect hair growth (even products with the opposite effect like minoxidil), the result stops once you discontinue use. That is the hallmark of a reputable company. They only make claims based on scientific data. They do not say Vaniqa will lead to a permanent results, because there is not one shred of scientific data that any topically-applied drug or herb will cause a permanent result.
I am not saying Kaloâ€™s claims of permanency are false. I am saying they are unproven by any acceptable scientific standard. Thatâ€™s an important distinction. Who knows, it might work, but they have never subjected it to the kind of rigorous testing necessary to prove their claims of permanent results. Until they do, their claims are without any merit, and Kalo should be avoided by any consumers who demand that companies back up their health claims with legitimate scientific proof.
That is my goal with my project, and thatâ€™s my basic argument here. As Iâ€™ve said before, if you decide to send your money to Kalo anyway, thatâ€™s fine. I donâ€™t get paid either way. Iâ€™m just trying to help consumers make more informed purchasing decisions.
Thanks again for your notes. It helps to understand how some consumers are influenced to purchase a product like Kalo, and your answers have helped me hone my explanation of this complicated consumer issue
Administrator posted 07-30-2002 07:03 AM
This is an interesting thread
Andrea you do make some valid comments regarding the depth of our clinical study and the relative impossibility of ever proving “permanance” I think the electrolysis and laser people consider permanent to be 3 months and this seems to be allowed. I hope some of our past users will read this tread and post the results that they have had over a long period of time. They are out there we just need them to post. Kalo is just as permanent as electrolysis or laser in fact in my own personal case it has been several years that the hair has been gone without coming back. For the record we have had many companies want to buy us, but we are not selling. We have a nice business, that we feel can grow to a very significant business over time.
We stand by our principal of make a good product, market it and then stand behind it with an unconditional guarantee.
So far that is seems to be standing up to the test of time.
By the way you will also notice that there are no people who have reported on this site that they used kalo had results and then 1 or 2 years later the hair grew back. Where are all of those people? hairfacts
unregistered posted 07-30-2002 04:07 PM