Is this working?

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hello,

I started electrolysis for my upper lip back in 2009 after laser did not work. I have been going to my electrolysis regularly for over 3 years now and I still see dark hairs. They are finer and not as obvious as they were before. I have to look very close in the mirror or in the rear view mirror to see them but I am frustrated that they are still there. (I’m sure other people would never notice it unless perhaps we were in direct sunlight)

What is realistic to expect at this point? Am I being too particular about the results I’m wanting or is this just not working? She told me that this area takes longer than other areas because she has to keep the heat low in order to not damage the skin.

#2

Three years is too long for an upper lip, however, if NEW hairs are being recruited on a regular basis, perhaps that can explain some things.

Your electrologist rightfully so does not want to harm your skin, so she may be under treating the hair follicles and that is why this is taking so long. Keeping on a regular schedule to get hairs as they emerge is what is considered a helpful way to get you from point A to point B ASAP. If you were doing ANYTHING that pulled the hair out while you were having electrolysis, then that is going to greatly prolong this journey.

#3

Thank you Dee. I have not tampered with the hairs at all and I don’t believe there are any underlying hormonal issues causing the problem. The initial problem was creating by shaving vellus hairs when I was younger.

Should I continue with this person or would someone else with perhaps better equipment or technique be able to solve the issue faster? I feel like it is working somewhat because the hairs are finer and not as noticeable as they were originally. Still, it’s taking forever!!

#4

If we rate electrologists’ effectiveness on a scale from 1 to 10, where 1 is totally ineffective and 10 is a hair removal god, there is still a group that range from 2 to 9, and you may or may not want to consider their business. If your hairs did get sparser and finer (that is visible even after a period of months of no treatment), then your electrologist is greater than 1 on our scale.

On the other hand, it does not take 3+ years and still not finished! Her explanation about using low energy for 3+ years doesn’t make sense, because fine hairs don’t need high energy, and the energy that the hairs need will not damage the skin when used properly.

So, with the disclaimer that I haven’t seen you, I think, it is time to check out another electrologist. Better 2.5 years late than never.

You don’t need to look for a 10, especially for a small job, and especially that they are rarer than the Bigfoot, but you want to have mostly smooth insertions, mostly smooth extractions, and all while your skin goes back to normal reasonably quickly.

#5

I have discussed this before, but it’s “soapbox time” again, I suppose. However, I really think this is important. (Note: this is not specific to this thread or any person therein.)

I’m picking up the two excellent comments by Dee Dee. In the, “Is This Working” thread, she was talking about the electrologist using “low current [for fear of] damaging the skin.” In the post about “eyebrow plucking,” she said (again correctly),"Plucking eyebrows repeatedly can result in thinner hair or no growth … if scar tissue develops.” Let’s conjoin these two statements.

First, yes indeed, repeated injury to the follicle will result in dense collage tissue in the follicle (called scar tissue). Why is this? Well, when you pluck a hair, you actually remove a good portion of the follicle and “kick off” the healing process in the dermis. The dermis repairs itself by laying down collagen (scar) to mend the tear. As Dee Dee pointed out, eventually you can build up so much scar tissue that a hair won’t grow back!

The very important issue here is REPEATED PLUCKING. Each time there is an injury; the skin only “knows” to lay down more scar tissue. With over-and-over injury, the collagen repair eventually becomes thicker and tougher. Electrologists see “mangled” and twisted hairs from repeated plucking all the time. Hairs often manage to regrow through the mass of twisted scar tissue. It’s nasty!

Now consider the following “injury.” An electrologist, fearful of “damaging the skin,” uses insufficient LOW current. She is thinking the following: “save the skin,” allow a lot of re-growth, and eventually the hair will be destroyed. I have actually heard a few electrologists state that one hair on man’s back has to be treated up to 20 times! Can you guess where I’m going on this?

So, what have I seen as a result of this “soft treatment to ‘save the skin’?” Well, along with the regrowth, lots of scar tissue build up. Sometimes so much so that I use the term “pebbling” for the situation, because the scar in the follicle looks like a tiny raised mound of scar tissue … a pebble. (I tried to photograph this last month, but was not able to.)

Electrolysis injures the follicle. Consider that a “light electrolysis treatment” is a more serious injury than a simple pluck. Always, this “timid treatment” results in scar tissue build-up. Constant and repeated “light treatments” eventually causes a build-up of thick scar tissue. If you zap the hair properly the first time, the scar is much less dense and is pliable … and not visible whatsoever (even under magnification).

So, if you want to “save the skin” … get it right the first time! Kill it outright!

I’m trying to think of a good metaphor for this, and I’m only coming up with the “overly safe/timid driver.” You know the type. These people are so apprehensive they actually cause accidents, e.g., the person that enters the freeway at 35-miles-per-hour. And, that’s the point.

#6

Thanks for that thorough explanation. Very interesting.
I’m wondering if there is a way to know whether low treatment is used ? As you know it is very hard to really question your zapper without being a hassle or coming across as a client trying to “micromanage”!
. For example the first time the latest zapper ( working on sideburn area) used regular needles and I had a lot of the little scabs afterwards so likely settings were normal. After that she tried using the insulated needles there was zero pain and zero scabs. How would I know if in that second sessions if it was because the settings used were too low? If there is no pain and little scabbing , but there is no sensation of plucking , and the hair slides out easily is that an indicator that that treatment setting is high enough ? Is there a way to know whether treatment settings are too low before you waste a lot of time and money and risk skin damage?

#7

You take a picture before and after every treatment. Next year, the same day, take another one. That will show you what you got out of that session.

#8

I’d “go” with what James suggested …
Or maybe a photo, now and then, and then compair them.

#9

I am in TOTAL AGREEMENT with your statement, Michael! I personally strive for the energy levels and the modality that shoots that hair through the heart the first time. I do believe this saves the skin. I think I truly understand what you are describing about the buildup of scar tissue now! I have seen it on new clients that had electrolysis treatments from other practitioners years ago. The hair is gone, so they don’t need help on these areas, but I do notice this when I am working on other areas nearby. There is like a pearly white / yellowish irregular appearance under the skin! I didn’t realize what I was seeing until you shared your observations! I am going to try to take quality pictures when I see examples of this from now on. It is very slight and it is not so noticeable to the natural eye. I only see this under my magnification.

I worked on a man’s beard this weekend, just shaping the beard line. I asked him to bring an eyeliner pencil so he could draw the boundary lines. I do not like to judge this for any client. They draw the line and I work above that line “killing” the hair that they desire. Oh sure, I do give opinions, but the client is in control. The mirror is handed to them and they involve themself in the process, if they so desire. My job is to thoroughly affect the hairs they want gone, the FIRST time around. It does not take 8 to 20++++ times to “kill” the same hair! If it does, well, there is under treatment going on or a size 2 probe is being used on an 80 unit hair!

I’m not a propenent of “wounding” the hair. I want to “kill” the hair. I think I was a female gladiator in my other life.

#10

I was hoping there might be some way to detect if the setting is too low sooner than waiting a year. Also Taking the photographs of one face vellus brown and blonde hair can be very difficult!
My latest greatest zapperella, Had been saying that she felt originally she herself was once treated with settings too high so she tends to take it easy on the face skin and make her settings lower , not sure if they have been too low but at least I’ve never felt a pluck!

Last session with dear zapper tommorow :frowning: feeling some serious saddness at Leaving her behind

#11

I would not have understood this (even though I had seen it) without the cool kid from Georgia (I did his back if you remember: the marine). Prior to seeing me, he had repeated treatments on his shoulders for 18 months with very poor results, except for the “pebbling.”

I also noticed that the hairs remaining on his shoulders were a bit more difficult to insert into … heavy “deep scars” in the follicle (from the repeated treatments).

The thing is, my writing and thinking here is not for clients to consider; they can neither do anything about this, nor should they try. These thoughts are only for my esteemed colleagues in the “Hairtell Order of the Knights of the Follicle.”

Also worthy of note: This “pebbling” is microscopic. My Georgia guy could not see it, and I was only able to see it with magnification. I could not get it to show up in a photo (I am going to try again).

Furthermore, “fear of undertreatment” should not grant anyone license to overtreat! I am not advocating “massive treatment” here. It’s all about balance. And, it’s really not such a difficult task for professionals. At the moment, I am corresponding with a DIYer who has made a tragic mess of things … so, beware! Electrolysis is basically easy … but a millimeter here and there can make the difference between a good treatment and a permanent mark.

In my own style of treatment, my margin of error is about ½ second. This might not sound like a lot of time, but actually it’s a GREAT deal of time. All of us work in “split seconds” and microns … after years of doing this; it’s all “second nature” and not a big deal.

For patients reading this, the old forms of “judging your treatment” still stand: ease of epilation, appropriate post-treatment manifestations … etc. As I have said, I’m also “OCD” when it comes to performing electrolysis … so, I “pick” apart everything and analyze everything. Most of us in the trade do this too.

For clients: I hope I have not given you something else to “fret” about. Don’t do it, it’s not worth your trouble to even consider it. Don’t bother to ask "how do I know if … " We can’t answer this and it’s not worth your time to ask (or worry) about it.

#12

Nobody walks around with surgical magnification on their eyes, so nobody can see what Michael and me see. Yes, don’t worry about this conversation! It is just professional talk.

My goodness, to illustrate this further, a particular woman I have in mind, came to me to have the middle part of her lip worked on, just to go the last mile, so to speak, and finish the complete upper lip. She told me she had electrolysis done on the sides of her upper lip many years ago, but the electrologist she loved dearly, retired a couple years ago and she wanted to get those middle lip hairs now. She was so pleased with her work and she said that her electrologist gave her back her life. When I looked down at her upper lip, the skin was hair-free and smooth, but there was “pebbling” as Michael describes it. I asked the client if she uses a magnification mirror to examine her upper lip hair and she said she uses 12X mirror. She never mentioned anything other than the group of hairs she wanted to remove in the middle and when I tried to point it out to her she couldn’t see what I was talking about. She couldn’t see it even with her magnification when she got home. So, don’t worry! (I only made her aware of this because I wanted to make her aware of what was there before I started working on her).

So, did this woman have the same hairs treated repeatedly until they were permanently disabled? I don’t know and I doubt that she would know, but this makes sense to me.

I, too, am not sure that I will be able to capture a good picture of this, but I will certainly try. It is hard to see without good optics. I’m just happy to know what I am seeing now on some clients!

Truly, electrolysis is like cooking. We are cooking hair follicles! If you don’t have the proper amount of heat for the proper amount if time, the egg will be runny and raw - unaffected. If we turn the heat up too high for too long, the egg will be burnt - affected beyond what is necessary. So we are like master chefs (not the Hell’s Kitchen types) to hair follicles and just like food, we have clues that tell us that we have done a great job.