is Apilus Senior less painful?

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

I’ve been having electrolysis for approx 2 years now and find that the area under the nose is almost unbearable. I’ve seen claims by premises offering electrolysis that state their version is less painful. One states that they use the Apilus Senior system which is more comfortable than conventional systems.

Is this true? I have also read about a service offered to transsexuals in London that offers electrolysis with a local anesthetic as used at dentists that totally numbs the area to be treated. That sounds perfect. I wonder if that approach will ever catch on.

Appreciate any feedback, thanks

Apple1

#2

I like the newer epilators that are computerized like the high-ended Apilus’s and Sil-Houet Tone VMC for this area because the energy levels can be adjusted perfectly to make this area under the nose very tolerable. It still can be very sensitive for some, though no matter what.

You could be very happy using EMLA, which is a topical anesthetic cream, one hour before you have a treatment. Apply the EMLA as thick as cake frosting and occlude it with plastic wrap. Your electrologist should wipe the cream off with a tissue, not alcohol, right before she starts working. This will help, but the electrologist must be careful not to overtreat your skin since your sensation is compromised.

A denstist can give you a nerve block as well, but again, the area should not be overtreated just because treatment is bearable now.

Dee

#3

The Senior is a mid range, not high end Apilus.
High end would be the Apilus SX500 or the Platinum.
The high ends enable the practitioner to release energy so quickly that it becomes less uncomfortable to have treatment in those highly sensitive areas like, under the nose.

#4

Is Apilus less painful will depend on what settings are used and on the electrologist. I continue to use the lowly Apilus Cleo 256, which is their starter unit. But what I found is that I can perform just about any setting the more expensive units can, but that I must manually enter the numbers, rather than to have the unit select them for me. Even with my lowly Cleo, I can provide low pain electrolysis even on the upper lip. It all boils down to settings and technique. But the machine is capable of providing it.
I used a Apilus Senior at the school I attended, so I am somewhat familiar with the machine. There are many variables that must be taken into consideration when selecting levels and modalities. There are instances when a slower setting actually is needed. The higher end machines are all geared to high end Flash and the slower modalities are not available. We had instances where we had to treat certain clients with the lower end epilators, because the Platinum was not able to provide the modality needed for that particular client.
I also have a backup machine that I purchased, a Clareblend Ultrablend. The Clareblend is designed for performing the Blend Modality, with just a thermolysis afterthought. Both machines perform as designed. Overall, I would agree that the Apilus hurts less than the Clareblend. Blend to me is kind of - How much pain can you stand - since the more pain you can stand the more hairs that can be epilated in a given amount of time. Pain is subjective however, as different individuals have different thresh holds of pain. The means that Apilus uses to decrease pain, is as stated above. Use Maximum amount of power for extremely short durations. That way the heat generated stays close to the probe, and thus does not reach the nerves. Utilize double insulated probes with basically just the tip exposed, to help protect the skin surface. The electrologist needs to know how much energy they are using to keep from over treating as well.

#5

Slower modalities and aftercounts with either thermolysis or galvanic are available on the Silhouet-Tone VMC if you decide to use manual mode, Martha. When one goes out of manual mode and chooses presets for any area or an area like the middle upper lip, the VMC sneaks in a lower current at the beginning of the release of energy to de-stabilize the nerve endings and then punches with bigger energy releases after that. That’s what promotes client comfort, along with probe choice and insertions skill. All this is done in about .02 seconds or so, which is simply amazing. I assume the upper end Apilus’s have these capabilities as well.

If you can make your Cleo perform like a Platinum, then okay and great news for your clients. Not all electrologists would be able to do what you do and would need the easier path of choosing an Apilus SX-500, Platinum or a Sil-Tone VMC. Admittedly, I’m one who needs the easier path to simplify things and don’t mind spending what I have to to get it.

Dee

#6

for the original poster, what areas have you been treating for 2 years? do you have complete clearance on any of them?

#7

Dee, I just want to note that the Cleo can not be operated to match the SX 500 or Platinum. The SX 500 and Platinum can release energy at thousanths of a second. You know what a treatment feels like at full seconds, tenths of a second and hundreths of a second. I am not referring to practitioner skill, just what the equipment is capable of.

#8

thank you for all your replies. I’ve had my whole face treated over the last 2 years, and areas are beginning to clear but the underneath of the nostrils area has had less treatment because of the pain factor.

I appreciate all your comments. To summarise then, it seems like an Apilus (high end) and a skilled electrologist is what I should look for.

Thanks again,

apple1

#9

You got it right, apple. Good luck finding someone to do this area for you with the best comfort levels possible.

Thanks Arlene for your comments. I didn’t think the Cleo did microflash, but didn’t have the time to look that one up. You’re a great teacher and time saver.

Dee

#10

have you been going regularly and getting clearance over the 2 years? it seems to be a long time if you’re just reaching a point of where just “some” areas are clearing up. you should concentrate on coming in as often as possible to get to a clearance so that you’re only killing new hairs as they come in afterwards to speed up the process.

#11

Arlene;
You are correct in that the apilus cleo timer is in Hundredths of a second for adjustment. The other machines do allow adjustment to Thousandths of a second. But all of their settings are greater than 0.010 in duration. The maximum RF level of the Cleo is a little over 160 volts peak to peak. It is possible to duplicate the same results by raising the Voltage level to near max, and keeping the timing very short, like 0.01, 0.02 and 0.03. Finer adjustments can be made by using multiple pulses as repeat pulses are 20% lower than the initial pulse. So while, the more expensive machines may have a little more fine tune as far as energy level. The same modalities are possible. One just really needs to know what energy levels they are actually providing, to make certain that they do not overtreat an area.
Since I have observed with my oscilloscope exactly what the rf levels at each setting happens to be, I was able to make a chart of the energy levels at each setting. While at school, I was also able to take and record what all the different settings the Platinum and the SX-500 machines are usings for each modality, which I also have in a word document. So I know what it is that they are also using.
I will agree that the more expensive machines do have greater fine tuning of settings than my cleo, but between time and level adjustments, I can come pretty close, even to microflash settings by varying level and timing for the required energy levels. If one also takes into consideration the diameter changes of probes, the variances allowed even without the thousands of a second control, that the options are pretty great.
Take a look at the apilus platinum and SX-500 settings changes between the different levels, and you will note, that changes are pretty large, meaning generally in hundredths anyway.
I am not knocking the more expensive machines. I mean if I had one, I would probably make every available use of its settings as well. What I am trying to say, is that just because one has a machine like the Cleo or the Senior, it does not mean that low pain level electrolysis cannot be performed. One just needs to know what their equipment is capable of.

#12

Thank You Martha.

I would be much more conscerned about seeing an electrologist using a Kree or Proteus machine instead of the difference between an Apilus Cleo and an Apilus Platinum.

(Of course, the person with the Platinum would have more comfortable settings available in the presets which that person might not understand how to dial up manually, and that is why the upper level machines compensate for certain lacks of knowledge on the part of the practitioner. I think too many people misunderstand why we say one should lean towards the high end machines. The better the machine, the less certain things are dependent on your practitioner’s skills, and then, on top of that, certain functions increase the speed and effectiveness of treatments. Just like we suggest that you look at cleanliness of the office more because it suggests level of care attended by the practitioner to detail. Nothing says a disorganized “housekeeper” isn’t practicing due dilligence on the sterilization of the critical items, but sterilization of critical items is something you are forced to trust your practitioner to do. In that case, we just suggest that it is more likely that a person who sweats the small details didn’t cut corners on the big ones either.)

#13

Good post, James. That description would be me. I don’t have an educational background in electronics. I’m not an engineer, but hghly respect and admire those that understand these detailed concepts about how a machine works. I’m so thankful for the companies who have put in the time and research to give us simplified, pin-point energy options for removing hair on people. These high-ended epilators are well worth the investment if you are seeing some serious hair problems everyday and you want a thriving business.

Dee

#14

dfahey;
The High End Epilators are wonderful machines. They really do simplify the need for electrologist to understand electronics to perform permanent hair removal. Apilus is a wonderful company that does invest a lot of resources into research and development.
Computerized epilators are wonderful for getting back to the same settings one used previously. You put in the numbers and you are right back to exactly the same point as before. I really do appreciate that when I input 0.06 or whatever time on my apilus, that is exactly what I have coming out. When I set current for Blend or Cataphoresis, I can be assured at 0.5 ma is precisely that. I have run tests and know this to be true.
Older Machines that use knobs for making adjustments, let you get pretty close to previous settings, but may not exactly be identical. I purchased a Clareblend Ultrablend as a backup machine, it arrived broken and needed to repair it. So I understand very well what is going on with that machine as well. My apilus can pretty much duplicate the ultrablend except when it comes to the thermolysis levels in the Blend modality. That is because the program on the cleo does not allow changes to the RF level in Blend.
There is however no way that the ultrablend can compare to the flash settings of the Apilus. It does not have the power or the timing accuracy of even the Cleo.
Yesterday, I was surprised when I attended a nearby Gender Support Group, that someone asked if I perform Galvanic Electrolysis. I really hope this person follows up with an appointment. Apparently, someone told her that she was an ideal canditate for having galvanic treatments. I would love to have the time to explain the different modalities and to even show her what the treatments are like, and to let her make her choice.
Do I want a thriving business, that is for certain. Do I see serious hair problem, yes I do. Do I have clients who appreciate the service that I provide, yes I do.
What I have to consider, is do I need to spend $9000 on a machine, in order to take wonderful care of my clients. I came to an understanding, that for myself, it would mean that I would have to charge higher rates, or go bankrupt, unless I had many more clients. I am just starting out with my business, and need time for my clientile to increase. To spend that kind of money, just to make presets available, does not seem to me to cost effective for my clients.
I have clients who had to discontinue treatments because of the pain involved with the Blend modality. Choosing to forgo complete clearing, just because they could no longer stand the treatments. I am able to now step in and help them achieve what they desire, and without their having to spend a fortune doing so.
I realize, that my understanding of electronics in the electrolysis industry probably puts me in a very small minority. I believe far to many electrologists forget the difference between a volt and amp as soon as their test is over. I came into this field from a background in electronic repair. I spent over 30 years in that occupation. Now having retired from that work, I felt like I wanted to help others. I attended college and became a Medical Assistant, only to find the market glutted with graduates looking for work. But the training that I received in Medical assisting, did give me the confidence that just maybe I could perform a service providing electrolysis. My last employer agreed to pick up the cost of my attending school in California and I went through with the program. Do I know everything in the field of electrology, absolutely not. I will continue with my education. These forums are great at informing newcomers about electrolysis. I just may happen to understand a little more than most about what the electrons are doing.
If I were having to depend on presets alone for performing electrolysis, I would probably need two different electrolysis machines. An Apilus Platinum and an Senior II. Sometimes, one needs the slower modalities that the top end machines have choosen to discard. I am not familiar enough with other manufacturers to comment on their epilators. But I did use the different Apilus epilators in school. The Silhouet-Tone Sequentium VMC Epilator does sound interesting, and I will probably check that out some more. I just do not have any experience with that machine as of yet.

#15

I hope that person comes to you for a consultation. Many people undertaking SRS are sold a bill of goods that they should “Get the Cadillac of Electrolysis and only do Galvanic” It is a great way for the electrologist to make that person an annuity, or bleed them of every cent they have in a year and still have work left to do, but for the amount of hair in the areas most SRS clients require, a good flash operator runs rings around the Galvanic results and delivers a much more livable time and money equation.

I have done the thing where strong willed clients have argued that they only wanted galvanic or blend when I knew I could do more work and get the same results in MicroFlash, (although I would make less money doing MicroFlash) and I talked them into allowing me to do different portions of the body with different modalities and it usually takes only 3 weeks or less for them to agree that they want the rest in MicroFlash, unless I believe that I should use something else on a particular hair, or hairs.

I have no more trouble out of them after that :confused:

1 Like
#16

I have a need to also vocalize myself on this thread. As someone that has had professional blend and flash, and has performed blend and flash on myself, me, personally, I’m of the conviction that flash is by far better. For fun, my electrologist did some flash, then blend, to compare speeds on a certain patch of hairs. The biggest thing that struck me was the pain-to-clearing ratio; more gets done with less pain. And for the advocates of blend being the way to go, they seem to weigh the two with flash being represented by only one blip of power at the bottom, then maybe one near the bulge. If an operator hits three times descending, it only takes a half second longer per hair and greatly increases the killing efficiency. I personally have successfully cleared tons of hair like this, whereas blend I would’ve maybe only done a fourth as much, and gave my tweezer hand an unnecessary workout. Sure, in some cases a hair had to be hit twice when it regrew, but still even with that, the time/pain payoff is superior.

Of course, here on this board, I’m singing to the choir. Well-trained electrologist and ‘advanced rogue operators’ equiped with good machines know too well of pulling out hair after hair with nice, fatty sheaths and lumpy bits at the base within a second or two of each other. To a decent flash operator, blend is like taking the backroads and hitting red light after red light instead of being on the super-expressway.

As for the Platinum being less painful than the Senior I or II, hmmm, at this level I think the operator makes the most difference. If an inaccurate insertion is made, or if a hair is slightly out of ideal anagen distance/phase, then that short, narrow killing zone is wasted, and the client will have to feel the pain all over again. …Or am I misunderstanding this in that the Platinum kills the same cell area/target mass, but does it so fast that the nerves can’t react fully? I don’t know, but what I am more interested in is not speed of picoflash delivery, but what it is that’s being delivered. The newer, lower RF frequencies; how do they present a wall of heat travelling through tissue? Dectro has obviously done research on this. I would just like to know, does the newer frequency deliver a more ‘opaque’, defined, sudden wall of death, with no baking sensation that would cause pain? Instead of having a kind of heated, but not dead yet, leading-edge zone to the perimeter of the target death area? Now that I could see as greatly adding to comfort.

Mantaray

#17

I don’t have the words to describe what the answer to your question about the platinum would be, but I know who to ask, and I will.

What I can say is the platinum makes it possible to have hairs removed from the lip (I said lip, not upper or lower lip) and feel as though a single drop of hot water hit your skin and immediately cooled down to room temperature. THAT is what makes it worth crazy mad money, as in just the same way one can do longer appointments and more frequent appointments with larger areas on an Apilus Senior over a Kree, one can outstrip an SX-500 with a Platinum IF one knows how to use it properly.

#18

I know there’s probably no more than a handful of people on this board that can answer this; James, Dee, Marthajoy, maybe Dr. Heimlich if he comes out of hiding, but maybe someone knows the answer to this:

Is an Apilus Senior (not Senior II) still worth getting? Are these machines still advanced enough to justify purchasing? Or is a Cleo or Junior Plus actually a better machine. The Senior looks more adaptable than the smaller machines with presets. Is the Senior really not even comparable to the Senior II? The way I understand it, The Senior has 1/1000 flash capability with more power than other brand epilators that came out those years, and the Senior II has IMM-PAC upgrade capability, more client management software, and hooks up to spa-related therapy equipment. All of which I don’t need. Or is this wrong? Does it only do 1/100’s? Is it upgradable at all? I don’t care about Multiplex or insulated needle-use programming, but just the Microflash 1/1000 mode with lots of horsepower and at maybe a more effective therm frequency. You know, a bigger, faster engine.

I’m just trying to rationalize if the Apilus Senior is a much better machine than the Silhouet-Tone Sequentium 328, or they basically the same; 1/100 capable machines with eL-unit, skin moisture, pulse capability, cataphoresis buttons, etc., etc., bells and whistles. And really not worth the trouble of switching machines.

Mantaray

#19

I asked a bunch of electrology students your question.
They have already tested all of the epilators in the Apilus family. Most of the students buy the Senior. With the Senior, they can work at thousanths of a second or slower if they want and they can pulse or not.

Slower machines? Pulsing at hundredths of a second or less, 2-3 times, is more uncomfortable but if you are okay with it, then save your money and stick to the slower machines.

I prefer the machines that have the ability to do sequence pulsing at speeds of 1/000 of a second. They enable me to work more efficiently as best results come from pulsing throughout the entire lower 2/3rds of the follicle.

I start higher up in the follicle in the bulge region, and pulse my way down to the dermal papilla. At higher speeds and presetting my pulses and delays, its more comfortable. (Thank you Suzanne).

You can always do a single insertion with no pulsing in thermolysis but I have seen much more progress with speed and pulsing starting at the top, working my way down and working this way, I want intensity and speed high – less pain.

So, I say since Apilus Senior is capable of speed and pulsing, go for it. I worked extensively with Silhouet Tone about 15 years ago and at this time am only familiar with the VMC. Both of these manufacturers make a great product so I say go with the one that responds to your questions, has better customer service, and writes a better manual!

#20

I don’t know anybody who bought a Senior, most buy the SeniorII (Senior 2) I was unaware that the Senior One was even still available. I guess I will have to ask Monsieur Beaumount when I talk to him.