Info on Electrolysis Resolving Laser Stimulated Hairs

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hello all,
First, I’d like to state that I’m so very greatful for this forum. It’s provided me with some light during a dark time. I’m a 30 year old female who’s been getting lassered for a quite some time now. It’s worked on certain areas very well, other areas not so much. I now suffer from laser induced vellus to terminal hair growth on my upper arms and upper back. These are areas where the original vellus hairs were borderline INVISIBLE. To say that this has taken a toll on me would be the understatement of the decade. I went from being a happy and carefree female working a great job and loving life, to now I can barely get out of bed and have been prescribed anti-depressants. I have been following this forum for a while now and want to seek some advise on my options. I can either

— do nothing and wait for the stimulated vellus hairs to revert (there has been one documented case study of this, but details are greatly lacking https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5fce59780006534e3c8bd8b9/t/5fce8db9b2cccb3663a11c84/1607372217433/Long-term-outcome-paradoxical-hypertrichosis-after-laser-epilation.pdf

— continue with laser (some laser places insist that vellus hair stimulation is almost part of the process and is needed in order to remove the vellus hairs, so that once they go terminal, laser can zap it),

— move on to electrolysis.

I will reserve questions regarding my first two options ^ for a separate post, directly dedicated towards laser. For this post, I will focus on my electrolysis related questions only.

  1. Since I’ve been getting laser done for years now, will new hair continually sprout up during my electrolysis treatment? By “new hair” I mean hair that the laser previously affected, but that will, inevitably, come back over time. Anyone have any experience working with previously lassered clients who had laser for 2+ years. I assume sporadic hairs treated by the laser will continue to come but, will it significantly impact the timeline to at least 90% clearance? Let me know your experiences treating these types of clients please.

  2. Roughly, how many hours will I need for initial clearance on full back. I’ll attach a photo. This only shows the right portion of upper back, but assume the hair is relatively the same for all of the back, slightly less volume on lower back.

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  3. Roughly, how spaced apart do the clearance sessions need to be for the full back? I’ve heard that for face hair it’s recommended to get cleared every month or so, but for body hair it’s closer to every 3 months. Is this a correct assumption?

  4. How many clearance sessions does back hair typically take? I know for face, a lot of sessions are needed, but I’ve heard for body hair, it’s slightly less. Again, do correct me if I’m wrong.

  5. Are previously lasered hairs harder to treat than virgin hair. I believe the laser does, to some extent, damage the hair follicle. Does this damage impact how easily the electrolysis needle can enter?

  6. I’ve spoken to 2 electrologists, just casually, and one of them said that sometimes “stimulated” hair (I refrain from saying paradoxical hair because sometimes that opens up a can of worms) can actually be easier to treat than virgin hair and should resolve with the first electrolysis pass? Any additional info on this?

  7. I’ve heard that 60-70% of back hair is mostly sitting in telogen phase. Does this mean that it will be hard to clear with electrolysis since hairs are not usually in anogan?

I’m sure I’ll come back to this forum later on with even more questions, but for now this should give me a good start. Thank you in advance!

#2

Thats a lot of questions so I’ll just address a few of them:
Hairs that were not destroyed by laser will regrow at their own leisure. This may be hairs that lacked sufficient pigment, or a mirriad of other reasons. Yes, I’ve seen lasered hairs grow out years later. It’s a reduction not a permanent removal.

2 . ) I’m sorry I could not provide an estimate for anothers work. We all work differently.
3) again this pertains to a large part as tyo how your electrologist works… Backs are a large area and can have either a few, or a whole lot of hair depending on the case. In a majority of cases when there is enough hair that the client seeks treatment, it represents many hours of electrolysis to attain a single clearance. This might beoutside the limits of the electrologists time, or the clients pain tolerance. In many of these cases the clearance is done thoughout the growth cycle in smaller treatment. The idea is to clear all the hair that either is growing or will grow throughout the cycle of growth.

  1. Atleast 3 cycles of growth ( each cycle being 3-5 months for body areas) and possibly more if you have not established complete clearance within each cycle of growth. Some people do the removal over a greter period of time as well in order to fit into their tolerance, scheduling concerns, and family budget.

  2. previously lasered hairs are no more difficult to treat. Bear in mind if you have only recently stopped laser your hairs may need time to shed before beginning electrolysis.

  3. No there’s no truth to this. IT doesnt matter . It takes a minimum of 12-18 months to get through 3 consecutive cycles of growth to destroy all hair in any given area. Nothing will make it any faster, though it can be slower if that is what works for you. 3 cycles of growth is whats needed to clear any area at minimum, consider this the “Law of electrolysis” because it really is that straitforward a guideline. That said, there is one factor which may make it seem like this. Paradoxal Hypertrichosis does not have a hormonal component to it. When compared with for example a case of PCOS we dont have a hormonal influence stimulating even more hair while we are treating theones you already are growing. So from the electrologist point of view, and certainly the clients as well, it sure SEEMS like you arent facing an endless battle. The effects of paradoxal stimulation are usually known, within say a 6 month period of ceasing laser treatments. Usually these are known very early into laser treatment.It doesnt in my experience tend to worsen more than 6 months from when you last performed laser unless driven by a hormonal influence.

  4. we have the ability to treat and destroyhair in any stage of growth so toa large degree it doesnt matter what stage the hair is in as long as it is present in the follicle and of sufficient length to determine the direction of growth and extract the hair when done, we can kill that hair follicle. That said, some electrologists go through their entire careers believing they can only kill “Anagen” hair . So they will skip over hairs they believe are catagen or telogen. If you never try, you will never succeed. .

#3

Thank you ^
I appreciate all your wonderful answers. I understand that you cannot predict someone else’s work speed, that is very valid. Can I ask how long it would take you to clear the full back as per the image I added above? I do understand that you’re highly seasoned, I’ve followed a lot of your posts on Reddit! Might be very valuable getting a frame of reference from a highly experienced electrologist practitioner, if you’re comfortable answering.

#4

For the first question – I had layered for around 2 years as well on face & arms, and got paradoxical. Yes the “stimulated” hairs that you lasered will continue to surface throughout time in different phases. I have been doing electrolysis on the face for around 1.5 years now, nearly cleared but occasionally get the thick hairs that have “awoken” and clearly were never treated (not thinned out from a previous session, but a new hair). You should search these threads for the keywords “pause, dormant, sleep” because I remember reading from Bono & other electrologists that laser has some weird quality that puts hair to “sleep” & these stimulated hairs keep showing up in their clients even years later. I don’t think anyone can answer how it will impact your timelines to at least 90% clearance, for me it didnt, but no one (laser techs or electrologists) will be able to know.

#5

Also I just want to say, I know what you are going through! I had this happen to me and its a very hard, long journey. After paradoxical, did electrolysis on my face exclusively and I’m moving onto other areas now that the face has improved. Im still thinking about how to approach the other areas. I check this forum occasionally and I was grateful to people who answered. Please stay strong!

#6

Currently we are treating several cases - same situation. depending on density will depend on of treatment. I am a fan of Galvanic Multi, we are only dealing with about 5% regrowth on the body, so can only speak from this perspective. From your photo this is what I see:
Modality: Galvanic Multi needle using GEMM-16 machine, 32 probes
Estimation: 180 -250 hours over a period of 18+ months (remove all the accelerated hair growth) It may take less, but be prepared that this is realistic.
Plan: 3 hours weekly to start or longer sessions if up for it. There is no quick fix. Once hair is stimulated, it does not reverse in 99.9% of cases, so I would not be waiting for the miracle.
My plan for you would be to focus on stripping the visible areas first like T-shirt lines so you are comfortable to go to the gym or a picnic. Once you are comfortable then continue to thin our the back till you reach zero. Once you regain your confidence, it can become a work in progress and can spread the treatments out over several years if you need to like photo attached.
In your case, I would discontinue laser and the quicker you start electrolysis, any modality, the quicker you will regain your confidence. We are here to support you.
Q5. As our target is the stem cells, hair is only a by-product of the follicle therefore does not have bearing on the results- it feeds us information for settings.
Q6. Again, not treating the hair, same success for lasered hairs, virgin hairs, stimulated hairs
Q7. Stage of hair growth has no relevance to Galvanic Multi Needle

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#7

Thank you so much, I appreciate your kind words. This will be a journey, but one step at a time.

#8

oh wow this is amazing! I googled your practice and it seems you are in Austrailia? Too bad I’m in the states. I think the most popular form of electrolysis here is thermolysis, which is fine. I just need this taken care of, but I do fear scarring. My skin is hyper sensitive. Even my laser techs tell me that the level of swelling I get post laser is higher than most they’ve seen. I’ll need to do a patch test for electrolysis. Is it true that sometimes you don’t even see electrolysis scars til years later?

#9

Have you tried antihistamine before and after treatment? great for sensitive skin, swelling etc. Galvanic does not work with heat so there may be a difference after treatment - Scaring seen after years, I would put down as a myth. I am guessing Thermolysis would be the main modality used in the USA, however multi is making a comeback and I am sure you will be hearing more about it.

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#10

You might experience some temporary irritation, but visible scars are not typical. The action is going on below the surface of the skin. I’ve had extensive thermolysis on my face and I’ve got one hypopigmented dot on the underside of my chin from a fellow student running the current a bit too long! But I’ve never heard that “you don’t see electrolysis scars til years later” :face_with_raised_eyebrow: You shouldn’t be able to see them at all!